Date   

Re: Cresty neck caused by stress

Priscilla Cuming
 

Thank you to everyone for their valuable input, I have read all your responses very carefully and taken on board all the information. Absolutely fascinating!


Jaini, your response is really interesting and nails the answer to my question regarding stress and cortisol.


The pony has just had a comprehensive diet analysis done by Carol Layton which included sending hay to EquiAnalytical. She has recommended a diet balanced by minerals including her Laminitis Mix, DCP and Monosodium Phosphate.

I will relay all this information to the owner and recommend testing for IR. 


Re: Question About Stabul 1

 

Hi, LIndsey - good catch. I found on the EquiAnalytical website that wheat middlings have an average starch of 23.6%, which is way, way too high for us. There is no breakdown of ESC and starch in the analysis on the Stabul 1 website:  http://stabul1.com/stabul-1/  I will email Randy and ask what the scoop is. 


Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy




Re: ECIRhorse.org - New Website Announcement 2017

 

What Nancy said. Great work, past and present - and very nice new site!

--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy




Re: ECIRhorse.org - New Website Announcement 2017

 

Ermagard! Thank you, Cass - lots of proof-reading was done, but that was missed. 

Nanc - it is on the trim page  https://ecirhorse.com/DDT+E-trim.php  ,second paragraph from the end, just above "To Shoe or Not to Shoe".

Thanks again, Cass.

--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy




Re: Cresty neck caused by stress

 

Hi, Priscilla - There are a number of our members who have found that flighty, spooky behaviour can be exacerbated (or even caused) by high insulin; and by dietary imbalances (specifically, an out-of-whack calcium:magnesium ratio). The crest is not a result of "stress". The crest is due to some endocrinopathic hiccup, such as insulin resistance.  Just a couple of anecdotes from my crew: Maggie had constant chiro adjustments for back pain, which never held, because her back pain was actually due to chronic low-level laminitis and low-level foot pain. (her back muscles were trying to compensate for that, just like humans due with joint pain elsewhere). Once her diet was in place, the back pain went away. Second: we have high calcium in our water. I had balanced the calcium/magnesium/phosphorus according to our hay analysis. Of our four horses: the two geldings showed no particular issues. One mare was always flighty (so didn't think much of that). One day Maggie got muscle tremors. (one sign of magnesium deficiency/imbalance). The penny dropped, and I increased magnesium to balance the calcium in our water, as well as in the hay. The flighty mare has become much, much more easy-going; Maggie has had no more muscle tremors. The geldings did not change in demeanor at all. 

So.... best to go right back to the Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Excercise.  If this nice pony is IR (blood tests, as outlined by Maggie's excellent advice); and/or PPID, that needs to be addressed. The IR diet of ESC +starch below 10% needs also to have the minerals (especially magnesium) balanced to the forage. And,  because of leptin resistance in many of these equids, feeding from a round bale may not be the best scenario. Weighed amounts of hay in slow-feeder nets would be more beneficial.  For exercise, hand walking, or working at liberty in an arena (outdoor or indoor) while she is still flighty would be the way to go. Straight lines, wide turns, no circles and no lunging. (and make sure the handlers stay safe). It must be very frustrating for this horse-experienced family to be dealing with a flighty, unpredictable mare; it is more than likely that high insulin and dietary imbalances are the issue, not the handling.

--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy




Message Posting Etiquette - Keeping ECIR User Friendly, Wednesday, 15 February 2017 #cal-notice

main@ECIR.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

Message Posting Etiquette - Keeping ECIR User Friendly

When:
Wednesday, 15 February 2017

Description:

This is a high volume list that can be difficult to follow. Help make it easier for everyone by following the Message Posting Guidelines below:
 
1) READ the Start Here Documents.  Unless you are in an emergency situation, before posting in the messages, please read the documents you were sent upon joining.  They are designed to speed you through the set up process so we can help you help your equine in the most efficient way possible. 
2) Check the Wiki for "How To" Pages (and more).  The ECIR has lots of information and finding your way around can be tricky. The Wiki is the place to start. 
3) Sign your posts. This is a very large group.  Whenever posting a message, identify yourself and your equine by using your full ECIR Signature with your first name, location, the date you joined and the link to your Case History folder and Photo Album. The volunteers need all this information to provide quality responses and perhaps suggestions for local support, vendors, vets, hoof care, etc. Go here for directions on how to make and save your ECIR Signature
 
4) Be clear in your posts. If you need to quote a line from a message: BEFORE you hit the Reply button highlight the text you want quoted, then hit Reply.  The highlighted portion will appear as quote in your message. 
 
5)  Try not to hijack threads.  Start a New Message to discuss issues not covered by the subject line.    
 
6) Don't immediately re-post.  Give “missing” posts a few hours before reposting. For unanswered messages, be patient, a lack of response is not personal or a reflection on you in any way. With so many posts some do get missed. Unless in an emergency situation, wait roughly 48 hours before re-posting and edit the subject line with "2nd Post". 
 
7) Off-topic but horse-related discussions: ECHorsekeeping provides a place to discuss issues involving non-PPID/IR horses, general horse keeping practices, other equine health issues, alternative therapies and other equine related philosophical debates.

 
Thank you for your cooperation.
 
- Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Team of the Equine Cushings List


Re: ECIRhorse.org - New Website Announcement 2017

 

Hi, Nancy. 
I found a typo in the website on this page: https://ecirhorse.com/DDT+E-trim.php


I’m pretty sure the sentence should read: 

"An equally important part of treating laminitic feet is to encourage full hoof mechanism…..”

HTH,
Cass

On Feb 14, 2017, at 1:42 PM, Nancy C <threecatfarm@...> wrote:

In 2008, the ECIR Group was approaching its 10th anniversary. Prior to that, many discussions had taken place focusing on how to make ECIR protocol information more available to equine caregivers and the professionals who work with them. From these weeks-long discussions, Dr. Kellon and Senior Member Amberlee devoted many, many hours to the creation of the ECIR Group website.

The site, ecirhorse.com, was unveiled in October of 2009. In the original announcement, Amberlee noted: “This is really to help all the new members just coming on board and all the old members seeking new information. It's about providing organized access to information. It’s a place for people to send vets that doesn't require joining anything. I wanted information that was simple enough for the new member who needs to breathe deeply and be armed with enough information to clearly interact with their local professionals.”

In 2011, Senior Member Patti launched our sister conference site, nolaminitis.org and, through that site, devoted countless hours to the success of both the 2011 and 2013 conferences.

In ensuing years, articles by Dr. Kellon, Linda, Lavinia, and LeeAnne were contributed. Amberlee devoted many, many volunteer hours as webmaster, as did Patti.

Because of this original work and the hours of work that continued over the years from these committed volunteers, ecirhrose.org garners an average of 17,000 unique visits per month.  That is an important figure.


http://blog.agilitycms.com/content-managers/what-s-more-important-page-views-or-unique-visitors

The new website being launched today has had over 100 pages reviewed and re-written with updated info. The Success Stories, now renamed Case Chronicles, have all been updated. Over 50 photos and images — the majority, ECIR Group member horses — have been used to illustrate what is possible. The ECIR Group Inc. NO Laminitis! Film is up front and center.

Most importantly, and as always, ecirhorse.org explains in detail all the signs, symptoms, and physiology of Pituitary Pars Intermedia Dysfunction (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR); detailed information is presented on various testing procedures and treatment, as well as background as to why they are recommended.

For equine professionals and for owners wishing to learn all they can, detailed supporting studies and back-up data are available to be shared. Proceedings from the 2013 and 2015 NO Laminitis! Conferences may be downloaded for free. Case Chronicles and Reports from the Field point to the effect the ECIR Group and the hard work of equine caregivers can have on individual cases.

The new site has been eight months in the making. Many thanks to web designer, Sullivan+Wolf Design, LLC. Special thanks to Jannalee, who has done extraordinary editing work. Thanks to ECIR Directors, Senior Members, and our wonderful Response Team who continue to provide input.  

Whether using the info yourself, or sending to your vets, your hoof pros, or your horse owners, make good use of ecirhorse.org, and please give us your feedback.

My apologies for the double post.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
ecirhorse.org



--
Cass for Satra and Cayuse
Sonoma County, Calif. Oct. '12

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cass%20and%20Satra%20-%20Cayuse


Re: Cresty neck caused by stress

Pauline <takarri@...>
 

Hi Priscilla,

I see that Maggie has given you some great advice- so I won't double up on it.  You're observations are spot on. For blood testing info  check this file  : https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/9d%20Country%20Specific%20Information/Australia

as that is still relevant for our area. File is about to be updated for  NSW ,

Let me know if you have any more questions.

 

Pauline

Geelong. Vic

Australia Aug 07

ECIR Mod/Primary Response



Re: ECIRhorse.org - New Website Announcement 2017

Maggie
 

Great job! Hope all who have put in so much time and effort can breathe a sigh of relief! I'm excited to refer people to the beautiful new site!
Maggie


Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App


-----Original Message-----

From: threecatfarm@...
To: main@ECIR.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: 2017-02-14 4:41:50 PM
Subject: [ECIR] ECIRhorse.org - New Website Announcement 2017

In 2008, the ECIR Group was approaching its 10th anniversary. Prior to that, many discussions had taken place focusing on how to make ECIR protocol information more available to equine caregivers and the professionals who work with them. From these weeks-long discussions, Dr. Kellon and Senior Member Amberlee devoted many, many hours to the creation of the ECIR Group website.

The site, ecirhorse.com, was unveiled in October of 2009. In the original announcement, Amberlee noted: “This is really to help all the new members just coming on board and all the old members seeking new information. It's about providing organized access to information. It’s a place for people to send vets that doesn't require joining anything. I wanted information that was simple enough for the new member who needs to breathe deeply and be armed with enough information to clearly interact with their local professionals.”

In 2011, Senior Member Patti launched our sister conference site, nolaminitis.org and, through that site, devoted countless hours to the success of both the 2011 and 2013 conferences.

In ensuing years, articles by Dr. Kellon, Linda, Lavinia, and LeeAnne were contributed. Amberlee devoted many, many volunteer hours as webmaster, as did Patti.

Because of this original work and the hours of work that continued over the years from these committed volunteers, ecirhrose.org garners an average of 17,000 unique visits per month.  That is an important figure.

http://blog.agilitycms.com/content-managers/what-s-more-important-page-views-or-unique-visitors

The new website being launched today has had over 100 pages reviewed and re-written with updated info. The Success Stories, now renamed Case Chronicles, have all been updated. Over 50 photos and images — the majority, ECIR Group member horses — have been used to illustrate what is possible. The ECIR Group Inc. NO Laminitis! Film is up front and center.

Most importantly, and as always, ecirhorse.org explains in detail all the signs, symptoms, and physiology of Pituitary Pars Intermedia Dysfunction (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR); detailed information is presented on various testing procedures and treatment, as well as background as to why they are recommended.

For equine professionals and for owners wishing to learn all they can, detailed supporting studies and back-up data are available to be shared. Proceedings from the 2013 and 2015 NO Laminitis! Conferences may be downloaded for free. Case Chronicles and Reports from the Field point to the effect the ECIR Group and the hard work of equine caregivers can have on individual cases.

The new site has been eight months in the making. Many thanks to web designer, Sullivan+Wolf Design, LLC. Special thanks to Jannalee, who has done extraordinary editing work. Thanks to ECIR Directors, Senior Members, and our wonderful Response Team who continue to provide input.  

Whether using the info yourself, or sending to your vets, your hoof pros, or your horse owners, make good use of ecirhorse.org, and please give us your feedback.

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
ecirhorse.org





Vit E sale

LJ Friedman
 

For those that use vit E. we all do. CVS is having a buy one get one free sale. on their cvs brand. . 250 capsules  400iu  in soy oil cost 17.00.  When you get the next 250 for free, the net cost is .034 per capsule.. hard to beat that price
--
LJ Friedman San Diego Nov 2014

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/LJ%20and%20Jesse

 


Re: Question on Filling out Case history

Purexpressions@...
 

Thank you LeeAnn so much for replying!! Very helpful! :) I think I got most history on him since I've owned him, in there, I have thought of a few minor things I'll need to add, now that I got it all uploaded! :)

Thanks again!
--
~ Lindsey Fortier

Feb.8,2017    Augusta, Maine

Snicker's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lindsey%20and%20Snickers


Question About Stabul 1

Purexpressions@...
 

I was looking at the Stabul 1 product and the ingredients. I know its approved to use as a carrier for the supplements. It has wheat middlings as #1 ingredient, I thought that was a no no for IR horses?


--
~ Lindsey Fortier

Feb.8,2017    Augusta, Maine

Snicker's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lindsey%20and%20Snickers


Re: Question on Filling out Case history

LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>
 

Hi Lindsey,

Sorry for being late on this but I'm all about history not so great at current events.  (Tee hee)

Thanks so much for asking about adding previous or current information when first filling out the case history form. 

Yes, we want previous stuff - most especially if it fits in a table somewhere.  The tables are for showing chronologically ordered events and fast facts in an uncluttered way.  Blood work results, changes in diet, exercise etc. show the patterns of what does and doesn't work.  

The narrative history, how long an owner has had the equine, and any observations go in the comments section.  

However for a new member in a crisis (laminitis/founder) simply filling out the current diet, meds and other information is acceptable.  However previous history (if known) and more details need to be filled in once the crisis is over.  

Again, thanks for asking about this - the case history form will have this information in it in the next update.  

--

- ​LeeAnne, Newmarket, Ontario - Email me (If link doesn't work use ECIR.Archives at gmail dot com)
Dawn's 10 Year Case History
Taken For Granite Art - Lightweight Cement Sculpture and Memorials

ECIR Archivist March,2004

Are you in the Pergolide Dosage Database?

View the Database Stats


ECIRhorse.org - New Website Announcement 2017

Nancy C
 

In 2008, the ECIR Group was approaching its 10th anniversary. Prior to that, many discussions had taken place focusing on how to make ECIR protocol information more available to equine caregivers and the professionals who work with them. From these weeks-long discussions, Dr. Kellon and Senior Member Amberlee devoted many, many hours to the creation of the ECIR Group website.

The site, ecirhorse.com, was unveiled in October of 2009. In the original announcement, Amberlee noted: “This is really to help all the new members just coming on board and all the old members seeking new information. It's about providing organized access to information. It’s a place for people to send vets that doesn't require joining anything. I wanted information that was simple enough for the new member who needs to breathe deeply and be armed with enough information to clearly interact with their local professionals.”

In 2011, Senior Member Patti launched our sister conference site, nolaminitis.org and, through that site, devoted countless hours to the success of both the 2011 and 2013 conferences.

In ensuing years, articles by Dr. Kellon, Linda, Lavinia, and LeeAnne were contributed. Amberlee devoted many, many volunteer hours as webmaster, as did Patti.

Because of this original work and the hours of work that continued over the years from these committed volunteers, ecirhrose.org garners an average of 17,000 unique visits per month.  That is an important figure.


http://blog.agilitycms.com/content-managers/what-s-more-important-page-views-or-unique-visitors

The new website being launched today has had over 100 pages reviewed and re-written with updated info. The Success Stories, now renamed Case Chronicles, have all been updated. Over 50 photos and images — the majority, ECIR Group member horses — have been used to illustrate what is possible. The ECIR Group Inc. NO Laminitis! Film is up front and center.

Most importantly, and as always, ecirhorse.org explains in detail all the signs, symptoms, and physiology of Pituitary Pars Intermedia Dysfunction (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR); detailed information is presented on various testing procedures and treatment, as well as background as to why they are recommended.

For equine professionals and for owners wishing to learn all they can, detailed supporting studies and back-up data are available to be shared. Proceedings from the 2013 and 2015 NO Laminitis! Conferences may be downloaded for free. Case Chronicles and Reports from the Field point to the effect the ECIR Group and the hard work of equine caregivers can have on individual cases.

The new site has been eight months in the making. Many thanks to web designer, Sullivan+Wolf Design, LLC. Special thanks to Jannalee, who has done extraordinary editing work. Thanks to ECIR Directors, Senior Members, and our wonderful Response Team who continue to provide input.  

Whether using the info yourself, or sending to your vets, your hoof pros, or your horse owners, make good use of ecirhorse.org, and please give us your feedback.

My apologies for the double post.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
ecirhorse.org


Re: Stable 1 Sale

 

I am currently (and with great frustration) trying to work with my local Tractor Supply to get some Stable 1. I wish I were closer - would love to buy some of yours. I wonder what the shipping would run for a couple of bags?
--
Fran in Texas

7-2005

Ford, Tinker and Dancer

Ford Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fran%20and%20Ford%20-Tinker/Ford

Tinker Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fran%20and%20Ford%20-Tinker/Tinker

Dancer Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fran%20and%20Ford%20-Tinker/Dancer%20Case%20History.pdf





Ford Photos:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1214900120




Re: Iron Overload Formula or Calculator

Maggie
 

Hi Stehanie,

There is no calculator for iron overload.  Here's a link to your CH folder in groups.io:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stephanie%20and%20Fury  Upload your lab work into your Blood work results in your CH folder and let us know when it's done, so Dr Kellon can interpret it.

Make sure you copy and paste the groups.io CH folder into your signature.  The one in your last post is to the old Yahoo site.  Thanks!

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA 
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response


Stable 1 Sale

Sharon Manning
 

Hi,

I live in East TN. I have about 15 bags of Stabul 1. My horse I was feeding this to has passed. So, I am stuck with it and will let it go really cheep. IF anyone is interested in this feed please let me know. Contact me and I will give you my address. THANKs

Sharon M

E TN


Iron Overload Formula or Calculator

 

Hi all,  I have new lab results for my two horses Fury and Apps. I can't find a formula to calculate iron overload. I have all the values of an iron panel plus ferritin. Could someone direct me to a link with a formula or calculator? Thanking you in advance!!!

Stephanie and Fury, Colorado, 2009

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory2/files/Stephanie%20Sharpless%20%26%20Fury/



Re: Re-Leve Kentucky Equine Horse Feed

Cheryl
 

Thank you for the input.  I value each and every one. 
Will be having someone from the mineral balancing recommendations  page look at case history and hay test.

--
Cheryl in MN

04-2016

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Tom/Tom%20Case%20History.pdf

Tom's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1961


Re: Cresty neck caused by stress

Maggie
 

Hi Priscilla,

Welcome to the group.  Good for you for helping this pony.  I would strongly encourage your friend to join this group so s/he can fill out a CH on the pony.  The more information we have, the better the we can help.  You can also share our website with your friend:  http://ecirhorse.org/   There is a ton of great information there!

We follow a philosophy here called DDT/E, short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.  All the details about our philosophy can found on our website, linked above.

A simple blood test can tell if the pony is IR (insulin resistant) or has PPID (Cushing's), and then she can be treated appropriately.  Getting a diagnosis of IR and/or PPID is an essential first step in moving forward.  PPID is treated with medicine (pergolide), and a mineral balanced diet.  IR is treated with a low/sugar starch (under 10%), low fat (under 4%) mineral balanced diet and exercise.  Though not all fat horses/ponies are IR, many are.  http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/insulin-resistance 

The 4 tests that we recommend to diagnose PPID and/or IR are ACTH, insulin, glucose and leptin.  The ACTH is for diagnosing PPID, the insulin, glucose are to diagnose IR.  The leptin helps to determine if the horse is IR at baseline or if an elevated ACTH is driving the insulin up.  Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating"  and many IR horses are also leptin resistant, and cannot self regulate on free choice hay.  Read more about Leptin resistance here:
 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/4%20Insulin%20Resistance  It's the 4th file up from the bottom in that folder.
 
And more information in this post and links by Dr Kellon:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/199596 

I found this post (#204137) by Dr Kellon which say this about pain/cortisol:

"Pain itself can contribute to high insulin levels. There is not a lot of research on this but it appears to be unrelated to stress cortisol release.  There is an interplay between glucose/insulin regulation and the nervous system.  Chronic IR can also lead to damage to nerves and neuropathic pain. This has been documented in laminitis. It's a vicious cycle."


Here's the link to the whole message:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/204137


Additionally, we know through experience that sometimes horses with subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as having arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the horse attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

Again, strongly encourage your friend to join here so we can get the details we need to help this pony.

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA 
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response

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