Re: Stabul1 vs Beetpulp

Natalie Washburn

Thanks Dr. Kellon!  I think it may be a good option for him.

Hi Bonnie!  Yes.  My gelding chokes on (r/s/r) beetpulp about once every few months.... despite it being soaked and fed 'soupy' with three big rocks in his tub.  The Stabul 1 pellets break down into a true mush when wetted down, making it even easier to swallow.  He loves the banana flavor too. 

~Natalie & Jay in Texas
Nov 2002

NRC & NAT 2008

Jay -

Photos -,,,20,2,0,0


Has your horse choked on soaked beetpulp? I have seen horses choke on dry beet pulp, and dry pellets. 

Bonnie Snodgrass

Re: Insulin, leptin levels question

Bonnie Eddy

Thank you LJ and Jaini.

My CH is nearly finished, hopefully will get it up today.

My question will be, since her ACTH (pre-prascend) was 77, she weighs about 856, and has no symptoms,  could she remain on the .5mg. She's been on the .5mg for 12 days. I've seen no difference so far.

Thanks so much guys!

Bonnie with Racham from Southern California, Nov/2016

Re: Insulin, leptin levels question


Thanks, LJ - Racham is already on .5 mg Prascend, so Bonny will be starting from there, not from 0.25 mg Prascend.

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

Re: CH fixed Should I treat Dually for PPID?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

Works perfectly now!

At 32.2 in mid March you could say his ACTH is in a grey zone.  If you would like further documentation before starting Prascend he is a good candidate for TRH stimulation test. Otherwise, I agree his symptoms warrant a trial. There are some horses that respond well to 0.5 mg at least initially but that's impossible to predict. You could try hanging at that dose for a few weeks to gauge effects.

If you haven't already, be sure to have your balancer double check that he is getting adequate protein for his current weight when on reduced hay amounts.
Eleanor in PA 

EC Owner 2001

New Wiki Page: Project Requiring Members Who Pull Their Own Blood for Lab Work #Wiki

LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>


This is to let you know that 

has been added to the Research, Databases and ECIR Statistical Information section of the Wiki.  

This section contains links to our on going research projects please help us help the horses



Newmarket, Ontario,

ECIR Archivist, March 2004.

Email Me - if link fails use ECIR.Archives at gmail dot com

Are you in the Pergolide Dosage Database?  View the Database Stats

Dawn's 10 Year Case History

Taken For Granite Art 

Re: CH fixed Should I treat Dually for PPID?

Kim Leitch

Thanks to a lot of hard work by Lee Anne, my CH is now readable.

Now to try to get my question answered.

Dually is a poster boy for PPID symptoms, but his bloodwork from Cornell is all in the normal range. I would like to put him on Prascend to see if it helps his symptoms, but is this something I should do? Would the starting dosage be 1 mg (titrating up to this) or something less?

Kim 10-2014

Clover, SC

Grits IR, Eeyore PPID, Dually ???

Case History

Photo album

Re: Insulin, leptin levels question

LJ Friedman

I'm thinking the prascend instructions are off a bit   .25  by syringe for 4 days, then half a tab orally  for 4 days for, 50mg, then .75 for 4 days   ( .25 by syringe and .half tab orally) then 1 full tab thereafter:??

LJ Friedman  Nov 2014  San Diego, CA 


Re: True or false? Compounding pharmacies can only use Prascend, not bulk pergolide

Ernie <kbarranch@...>

Hi y'all

Prascend is another EpiPen scam perpetrated on the American people by the FDA and our congressmen in Washington.
Ernie 7-2016

Brazoria County, Texas


Volunteers Needed!, Tuesday, 28 March 2017 #cal-notice Calendar <noreply@...>

Volunteers Needed!

Tuesday, 28 March 2017

At your computer


Everything you learn from the ECIR outreach groups is the result of many hardworking people from all backgrounds who share the passion for our special horses. The ECIR group is made up of veterinarians, farriers, nutritionists, and medical doctors. There are those of us who do not have scientific backgrounds, but are everyday horse owners who found our way to ECIR when we didn’t know where to turn.

ECIR Group is over 9,000 international members on outreach alone.  By collecting histories and laboratory data from thousands of horses with PPID and IR, we have been able to carefully monitor responses to treatment and management changes, both good and bad. This is real life, in-the-barn, research at its best. It is also the largest field trial in the world.  No one else has what the ECIR Group has.

There is much more to come. This work can not be done without the help of a growing group of passionate volunteers, many of whom you have never seen. We are all educators who make our world a better place by sharing the knowledge we gain from our experiences and our skill sets. 

If you have the time and passion to give back to the ECIR Group,

we want to hear from you!

Please fill out the Volunteer Form

Time commitment will vary from ongoing projects and tasks to specific short-term needs. 

Re: Should I treat Dually for PPID?

LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>

Hi Dr. K and Lavinia

Kim sent an updated version of Dually's case history.  My apologies!  Should have posted this afternoon that the .doc version was deleted.  Kim sent an updated case history from her ipad which has been converted to .pdf and uploaded. 

That link should work and Kim's equines' case histories should be viewable by everyone again.  :-)

Still did not figure out why the file was corrupted but at least it is all working now. :-(


Newmarket, Ontario. 

ECIR Archivist March, 2004

Updated hoof pictures for markups



I have added updated hoof pictures to my photo album for review, comments and markups. 

Thank you

Jodie Elwood 07-2016

Terrace, BC, Canada

Mojo - Case History, Photo Album

Re: question on reddish coat

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

Wait until he is completely shed out to evaluate the color. Old winter coats sometimes turn a shockingly red-orange color before they fall out.
Eleanor in PA 

EC Owner 2001

question on reddish coat


My other IR horse, half brother to Halo, his name is Wellon. He is on the balanced mineral diet similar to Halo's. His coat has gradually gotten redder over the winter, and now that he is shedding, it is even more pronounced. Does this indicate that there could be a shortage in a mineral? Thank you.
Mary and Halo and Wellon

West Fargo, ND, USA

Joined spring 2016

Re: Help with weight loss, and analysing adequacy of current hay

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

There's really no way to predict how much more pergolide you will need but can count on at least 1 mg.

The higher price at your local pharmacies is because they don't have other prescriptions to fill and must buy a certain minimum amount of bulk drug that they will have to dispose of after 3 months. Check with a larger veterinary compounder that fills a lot of these prescriptions.
Eleanor in PA 

EC Owner 2001

ALL MEMBERS: Do you pull your own blood?

Nancy C

We are seeking volunteers for 2017 Spring project.  Expenses are reimbursed.

For this Spring, and for future info, we’d like to compile a list of ECIR members who pull their own blood for labs, perhaps have access to a centrifuge, and/or simple access to a veterinarian to work with for handling and sending to Cornell.

If this is you, would you send me a note privately?

Please do not respond to this email but send a note to:

threecatfarm “at” cyberpine “dot” net.

Many thanks.
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Save the date! The ECIR Group Inc. NO Laminitis! Conference, October 27-29, Tucson, AZ

Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group

Re: Should I treat Dually for PPID?

Lavinia Fiscaletti


Both of the links in Kim's signature work perfectly for me. All 3 copies of the case history open with no problems either.

The direct link to Dually's CH only takes me to the first page of the Case History files.
Lavinia, Dante and George Too

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team

ECIR Group - Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance - ECIR Group: No Laminitis! #FACTS Integration <main@...>

ECIR Group: No Laminitis!

By ECIR Group - Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance

A good reminder of what's possible for PPID and IR horses.

Re: Should I treat Dually for PPID?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD


That just takes me to the first page of the CH files.

When I try to open his history I get a file is corrupted message.

Eleanor in PA 

EC Owner 2001

Question re beetpulp and updated CH


Hi All,

I had a good hard look at Tartines diet over the weekend and stopped kidding myself.  I weighed her hay for the first time in months and realised I was over feeding, not by much, (around 8kg of hay, pre soaking) rather than 5.  Her weight is very up and down at the moment, which is given as I'm using a tape, so it often hovers around the same "inch" which offers three different weights.  Yesterday it had her as 436kg, which would equate to (1.5% dry matter) 6.54kg or her ideal weight 350kg (2.0% dry matter 7kg), so using 7kg dry matter as a base I've reformulated her diet.

This would be 5kg of hay, soaked, 1kg of hay replacer and the rest from grazing.  Her field was harrowed yesterday and at the moment looks more like a dry lot, but if you look there is a steady sprinkling of green, which means that she can nibble all day.

I've switched her Agrobs Muesli and Mash to the Agrobs Grunhafer (oat grass chaff) which is very low NSC (sugar 2.9%, starch <1.0%). It smells divine and so far T is hoovering it up.

I'm trying T back on sugarbeet. Labeling in France is a bit of a nightmare. This product that I currently have (Pulpotop by Desialis), is 6.5% sugar (no starch percentage given), and I as far as I can tell there is no molasses added back in during the manufacturing process. It's a long soak product, about 1hr for the 6mm pellets,  It took 5 rinsings (about 25L of water for 500g) before the water ran anywhere near clear, so it is quite labour intensive.  I have enough rehydrated beet from 500g dry for about 5 days at the amount I would probably feed at.  When mixed with the chaff, her supplements, oil and most importantly spearmint, T decided to eat her dinner last night... whether she will tonight is another guess.

So, question... how much beetpulp can be substituted into the diet as a hay replacer?

I clipped T yesterday, as she was standing around sweating in her winter coat (which was shedding, just not quick enough four our rapid change in temps we get in spring), and was quite mortified at hot fat she still looks. She has a very slight neck wrinkle where the fat deposits were last year, so I'm not sure if it is a hold over, or a new thing.  Hopefully the stricter diet will helpt with that!.

It's a puzzle, it really is.  I have two horses of the same breed, they are managed in the same way, in the same field. Apart ftom the height difference, they are pretty much identical... except I can't get weight off T and B is verging on being too thin. T is very rounded - every where, and B is very angular.  I have to admit it isn't often you see a "thin" Merens, it isn't their phenotype to be so; more often than not the ones I see are fat - much fatter than Tartine and it is considered normal.  I sometimes can't sleep at night worrying about one thing and another with my ponies and yet others are so blasé about the whole managment and not a thing goes wrong.

Mar 2017, Alsace, France

Tartine Case History:

Tartine Photos:

Re: Help with weight loss, and analysing adequacy of current hay


Thanks so much for the info.  I will talk to him tomorrow.  Do you have any kind of guesstimate as to how much more pergolide might control his ACTH, considering his initial level and response? (1250 down to 358 on 1 mg Prasend over 67 days and 21,000 grams Metformin/day.)

I was hoping to get compounded pergolide to be able to afford any increase... I called a couple compounding pharmacies in our area.  They provide it, but it's more expensive. I can get 30 tabs 1 mg Prasend online through my vet's office for $59, and the compounding pharmacies charge $80 - $89 for the same. They can, however, formulate it into .25 tabs so that increases can be made without cutting tabs.

Thanks so much.

Feb 2017, Sherwood, OR

Case History  .

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