Date   

Re: chasteberry in a multiple herb formula

Karen Warne
 
Edited


Re: Digest not working?

Sandy Carr
 

Heh-heh...I guess it "heard" me.
--
Sandy

 

March 2017, Corona, New Mexico, USA

Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sandy%20and%20Andy . 
                        https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6171 .


Re: Cresty, lumpy neck

Sandy Carr
 

Dawn....agree!  I've been looking at the mess of a job of trimming my EX-trimmer has been doing for 4 years. Now looking at a correct trim I am amazed.  Of course, the EX-trimmer says the horse never presented her with the opportunity to build depth in his sole or grow enough toe to back it up --- in 4 years.  Wow, it's the horse's fault? Sad.
--
Sandy

 

March 2017, Corona, New Mexico, USA

Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sandy%20and%20Andy . 
                        https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6171 .


Does Cornell do lab work for other labs?

Sandy Carr
 

I'm trying to get my vet to be set up for a blood draw for ACTH, glucose, insulin AND leptin prior to the seasonal rise.  She said maybe her lab (name unknown) sends those tests to Cornell, or would.  (We live in New Mexico.) Is that a possibility or should I encourage her to just "git 'er done" now?

Thank you!
--
Sandy

 

March 2017, Corona, New Mexico, USA

Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sandy%20and%20Andy . 
                        https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6171 .


Digest not working?

Sandy Carr
 

Just curious.  I see up to 10 messages since midnight last night and have not received a digest today at all.  Usually by mid-afternoon I've had two or so.  In case something is wrong I thought I'd mention it.  I can always go to the running list of course...thanks!
--
Sandy

 

March 2017, Corona, New Mexico, USA

Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sandy%20and%20Andy . 
                        https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6171 .


Re: Jesse,, new cornell labs just reported

 

I agree with you: slow increase, aim at 16 mg.

Jesse is a lucky guy to have you!
--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


Re: chasteberry in a multiple herb formula

Alexandra Wilz
 

thanks unfortunately the chasteberry in the Apple Saddlery is solde out at the moment , that's why I wondered to continue to give the combination  Feistymare:
7.5gr of chasteberry, 7.5g lemon balm, 9 gr chamomile, 3 gr Thyme, 3,0gr Aniseed-- even if I give only 15g per day for the moment till I get the chastebeery pure!

Alexandra Wilz

 

May 2017 

Québec , Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6014

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Alexandra%20and%20Perla


Re: Jesse,, new cornell labs just reported

LJ Friedman
 


Missing a dose of Pergolide and other Pergolide questions

Lynnae Englund
 
Edited

If you miss a dose of Pergolide should you give as soon as you can, then the next dose at regular time? Or just give the next dose as usual?
I am melting the tablet in a couple teaspoons of water then mixing with the beet shreds. All is eaten. Is it ok to melt the tablet? It is used within 5 or 10 minutes. 

Thank you.
--
Lynnae

Stormy

May 2017

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/filessearch?q=Lynnae

 


Re: Cresty, lumpy neck

celestinefarm
 

I saw a great before and after photo yesterday of a horse's crest and fat neck on the Vermont Blend website that was linked here yesterday. I think sometimes, if all you see is fat horses or incorrectly trimmed feet, your eye becomes adjusted to that look and it's difficult to discern what is correct and what isn't. These photos on the testimonial page are a great eye trainer of what should be. https://customequinenutrition.com/pages/testamonials
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History


Re: Jesse,, new cornell labs just reported

LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>
 

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 10:46 am, LJ Friedman wrote:
esse was given 14mg pergolide at 8:30 am and blood was drawn 2 hours later..

 HI LJ,
Need to know the temperature around the time of the draw for the Case History update :-) 
It may seem a little weird recording this but it helps the group with research.  

--

- ​LeeAnne

ECIR Archivist, Newmarket, Ontario March 2004

Email Me - if link fails use ECIR.Archives at gmail dot com

Is your equine in the Pergolide Dosage Database? View the Pergolide Statistics

  Dawn's 10 Year Case History
     Taken For Granite Art

 

Quote of the moment: The human spirit must prevail over technology. - Albert Einstein
 

 


Re: Prasend affect on immune system? Success of chewable flavored pergolide

Maggie
 

Hi Joan, 


I'm sorry to hear that you are going through this very frustrating experience.  I would encourage you and your vet(s) take a look at the 2015 No Laminitis proceedings, in particular the "PPID and IR Myths and Misconceptions."  You and your vet can download the proceedings for free.  Go here:  https://www.ecirhorse.org/proceedings-2015.php  


The legality of compounded pergolide has been discussed here many times.  Here are some posts that might help you:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/186286 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/206354 


Liquid pergolide is the least stable form, so not a good long term choice for any horse.  Here's our file on pergolide which may answer many of your questions and give you information to have an educated discussion with your vet(s):

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/3%20Cushings%20Disease%20-%20PPID/Cushings%20Disease%20Treatments/Pergolide 


Pay particular attention to the pergolide 101 file here:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/3%20Cushings%20Disease%20-%20PPID/Cushings%20Disease%20Treatments/Pergolide/Pergolide%20101.pdf 


Hope that helps you some.  Hang in there!


Oh, and BTW, your CH still states that Sonny is on 1mg pf Prascend and as of 3/18/2107 he was "very thin", but your note states that he is "improving on 2mg".  Can you update your CH with all of the latest changes please?  It really helps us to see the whole picture in one place.  Thanks!


Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response


Re: Prasend affect on immune system? Success of chewable flavored pergolide

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Joan,

It's so discouraging to keep bumping into vets who are so uneducated wrt IR and PPID.
Hang in. You are not alone - not that that is of much help.
ECIR always backs up the advice given with science-based data, blood tests,etc. I wish the vets who espouse what yours does would offer some data to back up their (ludicrous) hypotheses.
So your vet should provide data showing that more than 1 mg of Prascend is detrimental to the horse's immune system,for example. It's nonsense.
She says there are other medicines to help with iR? Other than Prascend? Prascend isn't used to treat IR, is the first thing she needs to know.It is used to treat Cushing's. She could educate herself on the difference.
As far as taking a horse who needs pergolide(Prascend) off it, we have members here who have done that because of poor professional advice.The outcome is not pretty.

You are on the right track, Joan. Remember he's your horse, and he's relying on you to search out what's best for him. You've already been doing that,and have noticed an improvement on 2mg of Prascend.That tells you something, even if your vet isn't impressed.
Lots of us have used compounded pergolide for years and years. Some of us have had to go up to 20+mg doses.
I have had 7 PPID/ IR horses over the years. I would have had to euthanize them had I had to purchase Prascend. Back in the day Prascend wasn't around,but our local vets wanted us to use pergolide from a vet pharmacy in the area,which charged an arm and at least one leg. I searched and searched until I found a pharmacy on the other side of the country (Island Pharmacy,in BC ),which compounds pergolide, does periodic testing of its product, and is affordable.
My boys lived well  into their 30's, one of them into his 40's, and were on upwards of 10mg pergolide as they aged. None died from PPID- related issues. One is still with us. He's 45, and on 12mg pergolide, which I suspect his upcoming test results will show needs to be increased.

Keep reading the Files and archived messages.
I know you've been looking for another vet, so hopefully you'll be successful with that search.

I know it's exhausting, but the struggle is worth it.
Hang in. Your instincts are good.


--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002

 

 


Re: chasteberry in a multiple herb formula

Maggie
 

Jane, your signature is there--way down at the bottom of your post below the little dash marks. Thanks for doing that! The only thing missing is the link to your case history. I looked but didn't find a CH under your name. Once you get that done, it's very helpful to put a link to it in your signature as well.

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response


Prasend affect on immune system? Success of chewable flavored pergolide

JGS
 

Is there any truth to a vet's claim that I talked to today that more than 1 mg of Prasend detrimentally affects the immune system? She was very serious about not prescribing more than 1 mg, and as I was pressing her a bit with "facts" of horses being on it at higher doses and for long periods of time, she said yes, some horses can, but that it doesn't track those that fall by the wayside. She claimed that there are other medicines to help with IR, other therapies, including acupuncture (but would not tell me the names of meds or therapies without an extended farm call.) When I told her that he was improving on 2 mg, she said she would have to consult with an internist before she would ever go there. (Would this be an additional charge to me?) She said her goal would be to get the horse off pergolide altogether. Is this possible? She is the second vet that sternly talked to me about how "dangerous" pergolide is above 1 mg.
Is any of this valid? Does the site track in any way the horses that do not do well on higher doses? What should my counter point be when this is brought up?

I talked with another vet who said compounding is only for when horses won't take Prasend. . .or she loses her license.  I told her I have to watch him like a hawk for spitting it out and she said we could try the molasses/apple flavored chewables. Any feed back on these? I worry that as picky as he is, he won't eat it. Is it true that capsules are not available? He eats his vit E just fine, o I thought that would be the best option...but not available? Liquid doesn't seem a good option for him. He fights me on syringing Alcar and usually spits out a good bit on me. The pharmacy said the dustless powder has sugar in it, and not appropriate for an IR horse....is this true?
Any guidance you can offer?

Ahhhhhh....I am getting so weary. It doesn't seem like it should be this hard to find a vet and get him on the right dose of pergolide, let alone try to get it compounded! Is there some weird thing in Oregon? My current vet tells me compounding is illegal, too, although he has me buying Prasend through an online company that uses his clinic's name, so maybe he just has no motivation....
Thanks much for your thoughts and help in responding,
--
Joan

 

Feb 2017, Sherwood, OR

Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joan%20and%20Sonny

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=4355  .


For Members Who Need Trim Evaluations, Tue, 6/6/17 #cal-notice

main@ECIR.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

For Members Who Need Trim Evaluations

When:
Tuesday, 6 June 2017

Description:

Trim is often the “missing link” in regaining and maintaining soundness. Because your equine friend deserves the best hoof care possible, the ECIR Group is glad to assist anyone wanting trim evaluations. To do this, we need some specific help from you: 



1. Good Photos: Hooves are a 3-D object that we are evaluating using a 2-D medium. That places us at an immediate disadvantage. Good hoof pictures - of clean feet, taken from the correct angles, with good light and non-cluttered backgrounds - enable us to do this as accurately as we can. It helps the volunteers compensate for not actually "being there" to pick that hoof up or crouch down on the ground and look at it up close. Good photos help eliminate and/or clarify some of the variables that play a part in our ensuing recommendations. We understand that this may be awkward to accomplish but it is essential for providing the necessary info we need to help you help your friend. Although the front feet are where everyone tends to focus, providing pictures of all four hooves is encouraged.  Anything that affects the front feet will also affect the hinds, although often to a lesser degree.  If there are trim issues in front, there will also be trim issues behind as it is usually the same individual caring for both sets of hooves. 

 

The sooner we get clear and usable photos, the sooner we can assess and make specific, thorough recommendations. Go here for instructions for taking good hoof pictures.

 

2. Proper Identification of your photos: Having to guess whether a hoof is front/hind, left/right makes helping your horse doubly difficult and the Photo Section of the group chooses its own order when loading your shots so you can't count on them being uploaded in any particular order. Identification of individual hooves can be as simple marking LF, RF, LH or RH with a magic marker on the appropriate hoof before snapping the shots.  For dark hooves try a metallic silver marker or use marked masking tape as a “label”.  Please note that “left” refers to the horse’s left (near side) while “right” refers to the horse’s right (off side).  

 

3.  X-rays: Radiographs are always a bonus as they clearly reveal what is going on inside the walls where our human, non-superman vision cannot penetrate. With the advent of digital x-rays, however, the cost of a basic set has risen considerably. We understand if this just isn't an option but x-rays are never a waste of money when hoof problems are present and sometimes are an essential ingredient to a good outcome. If you are going to have x-rays done, here are some tips on making the most of your investment.

 

Hope this helps with the "why" of your volunteers' repeated requests for good hoof shots.


If your equine does not have PPID or IR, your photos go in ECHoof.   This is where all conversation about Non IR and PPID hooves takes place.  Upon joining you will be sent instructions about how to get your photos uploaded. Before emailing your photos please read and follow Getting Good Hoof Photos and Naming Photos and Xrays


If your equine does have PPID or IR your photos go in Your Photo Album located in the case history photo section. Once you have posted and correctly named your photos post a message in the main ECIR asking for evaluation. 



-Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Team of the ECIR Group​


Re: Need Help with IR/Cushings Pony

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Sherry,
Took a quick look at the latest pix - thanks for getting them. Nice job of getting many of the flares brought in, toes didn't get backed enough. Will have more specific info for you but I'm away so it won't be until Wed.
I'm assuming that on the scale of 0-10, zero is not lame and ten is crippled? Good job with the padding - I'm glad to hear she is better after the trim.
--
Lavinia and George Too

Dante, Nappi and George over the Bridge

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team


Re: Weight Gain on Cushing's Horse

ferne fedeli
 

I thought it might be something like that.  I do add iodine, selenium and sugar-free molasses flavoring to my custom mix, but could add the biotin, etc. to it and give them all the same thing!  Good idea!  I keep trying to cut down on the differnt things I feed to try and simplify.  That would be one more thing.  The Appy is also out to pasture in the afternoons, but eats several flakes of hay a day too, so the custom mix would be fine with the added goodies.
--

Ferne Fedeli

No. California

Regional Members Database Coordinator

 - see who is near you

Add your contact information if you want to help out/meet ECIR members in your area.

Case History


Re: chasteberry in a multiple herb formula

Jane Fletcher
 

Where I just got some CTB from the owner, they just sell herbs, she told me the best way if they will eat them is to put them in whole. I have been giving them 1TBSPN twice a day whole. They are eating them. She said otherwise to grind them but only a few days at a time and store in the fridge.

Finally set up a signature but it's not working so will re read the instructions!

Regards, Jane

Sent from my iPad

--
Jane, South East Western Australia
January 2017
Garnet and Bill


Re: chasteberry in a multiple herb formula

Lorna Cane
 

Sorry,Alexandra,I forget which product you mean.

But the instructions for the Apple Saddlery product are on the label.
I *think* they say an ounce(30g scoop) twice a day, but my memory may be false.
If you review various recent posts you will get an idea of what people are doing. It seems that if the recommended dose does not do the trick after a couple of weeks, people increase it.That's what I intend to do.
--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002

 

 

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