Date   

Re: gas colic due to Prascend?

Paula Hancock
 

On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 04:36 am, <mds100@...> wrote:
Booker quit sweating several summers ago.  I took him off everything processed (grain) and after two summers he began to sweat again.  It was very scary when he would not sweat.  That was the reason for the Biostar.  I have been extremely careful about giving anything processed thinking that was the cause of his anhydrosis.

 Hi Mary,
Great job with making your observations and getting blood work done! 
My horse Cory, a Morgan, also has issues with not sweating.  From what I can tell with him, when he doesn't sweat, his insulin status is creeping out of control, and his BCS is increasing--those ribs are not as easy to feel and there is a little fat developing behind his shoulder.  You wouldn't think it would make that big of a difference, but it does.  Exercise is very important but more challenging when it is hot and he doesn't sweat.
If Booker is currently a body condition score of 6, it will help to figure out how to get him down to no more than a 5.  It really helps to use both observation and careful testing to understand what your horse needs and what you can do.  It's good to remember that the test results are for that particular day and things change.
--
Paula with Cory (IR) and Onyx (IR/PPID)

 

Bucks County, PA, USA

ECIR Primary Response

NRCplus 2011  ECIR 2014 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Paula%20and%20Cory

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1624

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Paula%20and%20Onyx



New Stability Testing Data for Pergolide #pergolidestrength

Claudia Goodman
 

The folks at Pet Health Pharmacy have been kind enough to listen to my concerns about pergolide stability claims that have been made without studies to back them up. (Once I learned that the capsules I received were compounded 2-3 months prior to my order, I contacted them to share the only study I've seen of the powder capsules that contradicts their stability claim of 6 months post compounding.)

They informed me that stability studies for their capsules are in the works, but the study is not yet complete, so no news to share about that, BUT they had just completed a 6 month study of liquid pergolide in oil suspension (testing done by an outside lab) that supports the claim of stability of this product through six months.

Pergolide was prepared to 2mg/ml, as liquid in an oil suspension and stored at room temp. (No info on dating of bulk used.)
One solution of 55ml was sent to an analytical lab where testing was done between October 2016 and April 2017.
Results:
Tested on 10/24/16, concentration found was 2.057mg/ml. (102.8%)
Tested on 2/24/17, concentration found was 2.063mg/ml. (103.1%)
Tested on 4/28/17, concentration found was 2.112mg/ml. (105.6%)

The Lab's findings:

"Meets USP potency requirements. Formulation appears to have remained stable under Room Temperature conditions for 6 months.
This concludes the requested stability study."


--

Claudia & Silhouette  02/2014

California Central Coast 

Silhouette Case History


Re: Triple Crown TC Lite

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Jean,
Thank-you for sending in a sample and for reporting the results. Would you be willing to send a copy of that test to LeeAnne to add to the files?

The thing to remember is that with TC Lite, actually the entire TC produced line of products, the stated ESC+Starch is an average, not a guaranteed analysis for each batch. This means that whatever batch you are feeding may or may not be suitable. Testing from a single bag also has it's limitations but at least gives you a general idea if the product is even in the ballpark. That starch number is about double the high for acceptable starch (4%) for an IR horse because starch digests to 100% glucose while the ESC only digests to 50% glucose. All bagged, processed feeds will have higher-than-desirable iron even if they do not add iron. TC adds iron to all the products it formulates.

To date, there has not been an analysis that has come back at-or-below the 10% mark.

Obviously, TC Lite is a better option than so many products out there. However, for sensitive horses or ones in crisis, this is playing with fire. For horses who are better controlled or not as sensitive, it may be OK in small amounts.
--
Lavinia and George Too

Dante, Nappi and George over the Bridge

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team


Re: gas colic due to Prascend?

 

If the Total Support is helping, then definitely keep him on it. :)

"Whole Foods" is a marketing gimmick. Hay is a whole food; oats are also a whole food, but would blow the feet off of any IR horse, so they are not a suitable whole food.  The without having the ESC and starch values of the Biostar, it isn't certain that it is causing an issue, but because of the ingredients there is a high index of suspicion. Add to that the fact that the mineral content is woefully inadequate - there are better products out there for vitamin and mineral supplementation.

I am glad Booker is feeling better. He is a lucky boy to have you in his camp.
--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


Re: Does Cornell do lab work for other labs?

 

Hi, Sandy - For a normal horse, mid-July will be before the seasonal rise. Horses with PPID often start the seasonal rise earlier, and it lasts longer. However, once the horse has a firm diagnosis of PPID, then the aim is to keep the ACTH in the low to mid-normal range, especially during the seasonal rise. If you test in late July, and his ACTH is higher than that, you will then know you have to increase the pergolide for the upcoming seasonal rise.
--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


Re: Does Cornell do lab work for other labs?

Sandy Carr
 

Thanks Jaini,

I'd rather have no mistakes and a clear shot straight to Cornell with the blood.  Is the end of July plenty early to miss the seasonal rise?

Thanks!
--
Sandy

 

March 2017, Corona, New Mexico, USA

Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sandy%20and%20Andy . 
                        https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6171 .


Re: Cresty, lumpy neck

celestinefarm
 

I had another opportunity a couple of months ago to participate in a clinic with Dr.Bowker at his farm in Mason, MI. It was a continuation of the previous lecture material he provided in the fall clinic I attended and then we had cadaver feet to trim under his direction and supervision. Additionally there were two professional farriers there who were extremely helpful in guiding me in trimming. Most of all, the opportunity at lunch to wander out behind the barn and study the feet on Dr. Bowker's herd. Most are in maintenance phase, which gave me a great visual to remember.
I trimmed a cadaver foot that was grossly overgrown, it was good to be able to go to Dr. Bowker and him show me where the toe should be and how much more I could trim off. It allowed me to get after my own horses toes more without fear of cutting into live tissue.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History


Triple Crown TC Lite

 

I was a little disappointed about the last conversation about TC  Lite.  I have been using the product for years with no problems.  In fact my IR/Cushings mare lost all her fat pads while on TC Lite.  So, I took a sample from a brand new bag that I just recently bought and sent it to Equi-Analytical.  The results are:

ESC (simple sugars)     3.1%
Starch                           7.8%

I realize it is a little above our limit of 10% (10.9%) but it is lower then previously reported.  My question:  Could where it is processed have anything to do with the results?  
--
Jean and Amber (over the bridge)

 

South Carolina

August 2004

NRCPlus 0412; CIR 0813, 1211; NAT 0612

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Gloria%20and%20Amber


Re: gas colic due to Prascend?

M.D. Stephenson
 
Edited

Thank you for the QUICK LENGTHY response.  I feel like I have guardian angels out there.

To answer a few of your questions:  Booker's bloodwork  (ACTH,Glucose, Insulin) was done at 9 a.m. and sent to Cornell.  He had been given two flakes of hay at night check the night before, was turned out on a very chewed down paddock at 7 a.m. and had another flake of hay then.  He was on that paddock until I brought him into the barn for the vet at 9 a.m. I also had given him one of those Hilton Herballs.  (I know...very bad) but feel like you should know all that he had ingested beforehand. All was quiet and normal at the barn.

The leptin I had drawn at a later date after learning about ECIR and reading about the bloodwork I should have done.

I did have a lymes drawn and sent it and the leptin to Cornell.  Will post those results on my case history.

I stopped the Herballs when a friend told me they were not good for the IR horses. (despite the packaging). How do you feel about Emerald Valley's beet treats?

The Total Support Booker has been on for years. I started him on it due to his arthritis in his hocks and it did seem to make a difference.  

Booker quit sweating several summers ago.  I took him off everything processed (grain) and after two summers he began to sweat again.  It was very scary when he would not sweat.  That was the reason for the Biostar.  I have been extremely careful about giving anything processed thinking that was the cause of his anhydrosis.

I will do what you say regarding the APF and the Prascend.  Thank you for that advice.  My horse is feeling better this a.m. according to the barn owner.

My gratitude.....
--
Mary Stephenson. Fairfield CT

 

Horse:  Booker

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mary%20and%20Booker/Bookers%20Case%20History%20Form.pdf


Re: Prasend affect on immune system? Success of chewable flavored pergolide

JGS
 

Oh. I see your note now too, Jaini. Thanks for weighing in. Don't know what's going on, but so far, no vet I talked to would give me a written prescription when I suggested that (including my most recent.) I asked very nicely how they could not, since Oregon has a law that requires that they do, and I was told that how they get around that is to have a policy that they CALL the prescription in, and would do so for me if I were buying Prasend anywhere. But they would refuse to call in to a compounding pharmacy. Don't know. I am thankful not all vets are like this. Just hard to sort them out and find a good one without spending time, $$$ and/or being emotionally beat up!
--
Joan

 

Feb 2017, Sherwood, OR

Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joan%20and%20Sonny

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=4355  .


Re: Prasend affect on immune system? Success of chewable flavored pergolide

JGS
 

Lorna and Maggie....thanks so much for your replies. I was so down yesterday...good to hear a few positive voices of support! Thank you, thank you for being there for us!!
I caught a break today...(Snoopy dance !!!) I got a call from the vet who suggested the flavored chews. She was coming to a neighbor and offered to drop by today and split the travel charge, which I thought was very nice for both of us. I ended up liking her a lot, and she is totally on-board with getting his ACTH under control by raising dosage. She taught me how to feel for pulses (which he did have :-(  and explains why he is so gimpy. His diet is totally under control, so must be driven by ACTH. We set up a protocol of communication...I am to keep track of his symptoms and report this in an email to her every month, and we will increase dosage 1/4 mg per month until his symptoms have improved adequately.She encouraged me to call her if I have any other questions.

After discussing my concerns about how picky Sonny is, we ended up deciding to try the dustless powder instead of the chews, and it also makes it easier to increase dosage. (I totally spaced the sugar question. Hopefully there's not enough to matter to his IR? Fingers crossed.) One of the hesitations I had was her insistence that compounded is nowhere the quality of Prasend, and that she would only go through one pharmacy because she was familiar with their quality.(I posted a frustration earlier that a number of pharmacies in my area charge MORE than Prasend for compounded.) It turned out that it is one that the ECIR website lists, (Wedgewood) so that raised ECIR credibility for her, and made it more affordable for me.  It is interesting that the difficulty I had getting Sonny to take his medicine is actually what made it possible to get the compounded. This trait of his personality literally saved his life!

On another note...yes, I will update the case history soon. Thanks so so much for your patience. I was recording things in a notebook that somehow became lost, so I will have to look some more, or sit down and reconstruct the best I can. Just haven't had the energy/time to do it yet.... Now the vet hunt is over, that helps. My next hunt is for safe timothy hay as people are haying right now.(HAVE to quit buying the Timothy cubes as his main diet! So expensive.) I finally found a chipper that seems promising. I ground up some of his old grass hay, but he won't eat it, even soaked.  He doesn't quid it, just doesn't eat it. I'm thinking it is because the timothy is much yummier. . .

Thanks. Be in touch soon with promised CH!
--
Joan

 

Feb 2017, Sherwood, OR

Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joan%20and%20Sonny

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=4355  .


Re: Jesse,, new cornell labs just reported

LJ Friedman
 

thanks for the reply.. I will re test in mid july or august whether Jesse is on 14.0 or 16.0 mg.. thanks..
--

LJ Friedman  Nov 2014  San Diego, CA

 

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=2117 

.https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/LJ%20and%20Jesse


Re: Jesse,, new cornell labs just reported

 

Very good work, LJ.  Your vet is likely constrained by the fact that if, heaven forfend, there was some issue that could be traced to the pergolide, he would look pretty feeble without good data to back up why he raised it when the ACTH was "normal".   Dr. Kellon and the list members, through the accumulated data from the many horses on this list,  have the advantage of seeing many hundreds of PPID horse cases that clearly do best when the ACTH is teens to low 20's. We also (as you have done) get to see what happens when the ACTH is high normal.  There are currently no studies done on this, so your vet pretty much has to go with published data, some of which are...misleading. 

If your vet just can't make himself increase the dose, then re-test mid-July. There should be enough of an increase in ACTH to show that an increase in pergolide is warranted.  Even if you do get an okay to increase the pergolide, I would still re-test, but you could wait until August.
--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


Re: Prasend affect on immune system? Success of chewable flavored pergolide

 

Hi, Joan - I just want to chime in and agree with what Lorna and Maggie have said.  Sonny is so very clearly PPID (Cushing's) that taking him off pergolide would be exactly the same as removing insulin injections from a Type 1 Diabetic, or preventing a clinically depressed person from having their anti-depressants. The outcome could not possibly be good. Pergolide side-effects in the horse are pretty minimal, and usually restricted to the first week or so (lethargy, lack of appetite, etc). The heart-valve dysfunction that happened to some humans on pergolide has been shown to be dose-dependent, and even horses at the highest doses in our data base don't come close to the mg per kg body weight that some humans were taking.

The side effects of PPID, on the other hand, are very well documented, and can be truly terrible, including persistent infection (due to suppressed immune system); laminitis; and feeling lousy. There is muscle loss, weight loss, and weakness. Some of them show depressed appetites. There have been a small number of horses seen on this list who died from infection after the owner stopped using pergolide because of an inaccurate perception that using drugs was bad, or that pergolide might be "toxic".

BI, that manufactures Prascend, has had a very aggressive marketing scheme aimed at vets, including letters saying that compounded pergolide is illegal, unethical, and much like boiling babies. Their marketing is impressive, I will say. However, compounding pharmacies that have butted heads with the FDA have won. If your vet is concerned, all he or she needs to do is write a script for "pergolide", instead of for "Prascend". You then take it to the pharmacy, or the vet's office faxes it to the pharmacy, and the vet is totally in the clear. If the vet's office were to try to sell compounded pergolide, that would definitely be illegal (for a variety of reasons). However, providing a script is perfectly safe.

Hang in there.
--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


Re: Jesse,, new cornell labs just reported

LJ Friedman
 

I asked pethealth to fax my vet to get 16.0mg..  I got this response from the vet:


Jesse's last test came back and was quite normal.  I realize you consult with another veterinarian on this.  I feel his dose is right where it should be and I do not feel we should increase it at this time
I replied back:
 

I would like to increase to 16 mg now and retest in July
I got back jesses labs today. His ACTH was 26.0 . (Normal values  are 9 to 35 ) Because of  this value,  I will be raising his pergolide   He is currently on 14 mg and I will increase him to 16 Mg   )The reason is the month of June has the lowest pressure on ACTH   Dr. kellon  likes to see readings in the teens  to low 20s. At all times. A Reading of 26.0  on 14 mg  in june, would never remain that low for jesse  in October , when most laminitis   occurs as that is the time of year when there is most pressure on ACTH levels    
  (this reply I sent my vet was a copy/paste of  an email that I sent to a vet friend who I am helping with her ppid horse.. I didnt want to tell her that she needs to increase her pergolide,, so I offered info pn what and why I was doing  and she agreed it made sense)

 My vets reply was reasonable..I will see if he ok's the rx increase after he reads my reply, and will let the group know

MY QUESTION.
If he doesnt send in the increase and Jesse remains on 14mg, when should I re test to show the presumed increase in acth?
He's a nice vet.. and one cant argue with his response. 
I posted this just so others can see how I communicate with  my  local vets. 
--

LJ Friedman  Nov 2014  San Diego, CA

 

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=2117 

.https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/LJ%20and%20Jesse


Re: Missing a dose of Pergolide and other Pergolide questions

 

It all depends on when you noticed that you missed the dose. If it is within 12 to 15 hours of the next dose, then just wait and do the next dose. If it is more than 12 hours, then dose, and do the regular dose at the regular time. Note: if your horse is new to pergolide, or very sensitive to changes in the dose, then just skip, and do the regular next dose.

It is fine to dissolve the tablet in water. Mixing with food works great if the bowl is licked clean.
--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


Re: Does Cornell do lab work for other labs?

 

All labs will outsource blood if they don't have the equipment to do certain tests, so you can get the blood pulled, and then either direct send to Cornell (serum and plasma well frozen, and lots of ice in the package); or send to the regular lab and request a forward to Cornell. The extra step to the local lab leaves more potential for mess-ups, regarding the blood getting thawed and then re-frozen; going through two labs is always more expensive for the actual blood work; sending direct to Cornell from your area will cost more for the courier. 
--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


Re: Pergolide dose prior to blood draw??

 

Hi, Sara - such good questions!  And, of course, we need lots more research in order to pin down firm answers to these questions. 

If you draw blood before the first pergolide dose of the day, you will be getting the "trough" results for pergolide, and the "peak" results for ACTH.  Pulling blood somewhere between 5 and 12 hours after the pergolide dose will give ACTH results that likely reflect what is going on for most of the day.  So..... if you pull blood before giving the pergolide, and the ACTH is in a nice range (low- to mid-normal), then all is well. If it is a hair higher, then you might still be okay. If it is high-end normal or above normal, you at least know for sure that you have got to increase the pergolide.  For blood pulled 5 to 12 hours after the pergolide dose, aim for ACTH 20 ng/mL or below.

In an ideal world, you would give your pergolide at the usual time of 7:30 am or so, then get the blood pulled sometime after 1 pm.  If this were me, I would give the pergolide at 6:30 (6:00 would be even better), and then keep the vet chatting for a half hour or so before the blood pull.
--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


Re: gas colic due to Prascend?

 

Hi, Mary, and welcome to the list!  Great job on the case history - thank you so much.
 
For your first concern with the pergolide veil: Booker would appear to be very early PPID (Cushing's), and so may be more reactive to the sudden starting of 1 mg pergolide (Prascend). It is so nice to see people being pro-active, and testing yearly.  The gassiness may be due to the change in his eating habits, or it could be due to the Prascend. Also, some horses get gassy on yeast, which is in the Cur-Ost Total Support. If the gas is new, however, it is likely not due to that.
 
If Booker were mine, I would cut the Prascend dose to 0.25 mg daily to start with, and also order APF or APF Pro  https://www.biostarus.com/products/optimum-eq-senior?variant=19273093126  This is the safest time of year to reduce the Prascend dose and then start to increase again, as this is the time of year when horses have the lowest levels of ACTH.
 
You can achieve the 0.25 mg of Prascend by cutting the tablet in half. Then dissolve the half in, say, 5 cc's of water (measured with a syringe). Suck up 2.5 cc's in one syringe, and put it in the fridge.  Suck up the other 2.5 cc's of mixed Prascend and water, and that is his daily dose. 
 
Since he seems quite sensitive to the Prascend, I would keep him on that 0.25 mg daily until the APF arrives. Giving APF or APF Pro has been shown to reduce or eliminate the pergolide veil.
 
Once the APF arrives, start administering that daily (directions are on the Valley Vet website, although that is not the only place to buy it).  Give Booker 0.5 mg of Prascend daily (MUCH easier, as that is half a tablet). Do that for a week or 8 days, then increase to 0.75 mg daily (half a tab  plus a syringe with 0.25 mg in it). If that goes well, you only need do that for 4 days. Then go to the 1 mg.
 
If at any time he looks "off" again, reduce to the dose he tolerates well. NB, you will more than likely have to increase to at least 1 mg for the seasonal rise, which should begin in early September (for normal and early Cushing's horses; full-blown Cushing's horses will often start ramping up the ACTH in July).  Since he is testing as very early Cushing's, he may even only need pergolide from August through April.
 
The list philosophy is Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise. This provides a nice systematic way to approach metabolic/endocrine problems, and laminitis.
 
May I ask, was the blood pulled after an overnight fast?  If he was fasted for the blood pull, then the insulin number is falsely low, and he is likely rather more IR than those most recent numbers suggest.  I believe it would be prudent to treat him as fully IR, rather than compensated IR, for now, until evidence suggests otherwise.   Here is the protocol for blood pulling:  Blood should be pulled from a non-fasting horse (or pony) in a quiet barn; blood spun, separated, and frozen or chilled asap, then sent to the lab at Cornell on ice; or to University of Guelph if in Canada. Ask for insulin, glucose, and leptin, and ACTH. The blood for the ACTH goes into purple-topped tubes; for the other analytes it goes into red-topped tubes.  

 

More information at these locations: 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/2%20DDT%20-%20%20The%20Diet%20Diagnosis%20and%20Trim%20Protocol/DDT%20Diagnosis.pdf 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/4%20Insulin%20Resistance/2%20Diagnosing%20Insulin%20Resistance%202012.pdf 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Blood%20Testing%20for%20IR%20and%20PPID

In cases where horses have had Lyme disease before, or where they live in Lyme endemic areas (and the New England states are pretty much Lyme Central), it is prudent to check Lyme status once a year via the Multi-Plex Lyme panel from Cornell.

Diet is supremely important, in some ways more for what is not fed: no pasture, sweet feeds, oats/grain, carrots, apples, iron-containing supplements.  Diet consists of grass hay or haylage, with ESC (soluble sugars) and starch of less than 10%, plus minerals balanced to the forage, plus vitamin E, salt, and flaxseed or flaxseed oil.  One can use a carrier of beet pulp (rinsed, soaked, and rinsed) as a safe feed to get the supplements in.   The Temporary Emergency Diet uses hay soaked for 1 hour in cold water, or 30 minutes in hot water, with the water drained where the horses can't get at it; plus vitamin E, salt, and ground flaxseed in a safe carrier such as beet pulp (rinsed, soaked, rinsed).  More info on Temporary Emergency Diet here: 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/2%20DDT%20-%20%20The%20Diet%20Diagnosis%20and%20Trim%20Protocol/DDT%20Diet.pdf 

 Here is where we can do some tightening up.  Once you have been reading posts from other members, and dipping into the files, you will find your antennae for detecting products that are not good for IR horses  become finely tuned.

HIlton Herballs:  http://thehealingbarn.com/hilton-herbs-herballs-2/  I am pretty sure I managed to find the sugar and starch content of these once, but it was a struggle. However, the ingredients will tell you that these are in no way suitable for an IR horse:   Alfalfa, Wheat Flour and Linseed, mixed with generous quantities of Garlic, Mint, Oregano, and Rosemary with no sugar added!  Starch packs a bigger punch that sucrose, because starch can be broken down into 100% glucose. Wheat flour is chock full of starch.  You may be tempted to think that such a tiny amount of the Herballs couldn't make a difference, but I have personally seen just an apple or a few carrots a day cause continued foot pain in an IR horse, and this has been noted by other members of the list time and time again.

Biostar Optimum EQ Senior: https://www.biostarus.com/products/optimum-eq-senior?variant=19273093126   Well.......  it provides stuff you don't really need at all, and which could be detrimental (oranges, carrots, apples, etc), and doesn't provide much of what you really do need. There isn't enough copper, zinc, selenium or iodine  in there to keep a gnat alive. Complete waste of money. Nice marketing, though.

Cur-Ost EQ Adapt and Calm: I have no issues with that, but Ashwaganda can be purchased from Herbalcom.com at http://www.herbalcom.com/store.php3?list=cats&session=29e6a64de82648084874071bc3f233ef  for $9.20 per pound, a considerable savings. 

Same comment for the EQ Stomach. Probably very helpful, but might be cheaper to buy the ingredients elsewhere.

Regarding Cur-Ost Total Support, https://www.nouvelleresearch.com/index.php/products/equine-formulas/cur-ost-eq-total-support  I am always very skeptical of products that promise lots:  All in one formula that also targets conditions associated with poor digestive health including laminitis, COPD, allergies and eye conditions.   And I am a bit toe-curled by the mushroom inclusions. This product, if it is helping, is doing so via the cucurmin.

Good, optimal, immune function starts with providing the minerals and vitamins necessary for the body to manufacture the enzymes and hormones needed to keep the body working; ditto to make good skin and coat to provide a barrier to external insults; and not giving stuff that might compromise function (like iron).  To this end, balancing vitamins and minerals to your hay is the best solution.  All hays are deficient in copper, zinc and iodine (except those grown where there is sea spray - they may have sufficient iodine). Many hays are deficient in selenium, magnesium and phosphorus. Some hays are deficient in manganese.  Most hays have too much iron, which interferes with the absorption of copper and zinc.  Below is a list of acceptable ration balancers that will do nothing but good (but are still not as good as a hay analysis and balance)These have no added iron.:

Uckele U-Balance Foundation  http://equine.uckele.com/vitamin-mineral/u-balance-foundation.html

 

California Trace Plus  http://www.californiatrace.com/catraceplus.html

 

Colorado Mix  (no selenium) https://horsetech.com/equine-supplements/custom-non-stock-products/colorado-mix

 

Colorado Se Mix https://horsetech.com/equine-supplements/custom-non-stock-products/colorado-se-mix

  

VermontBlend   https://customequinenutrition.com/collections/supplements/products/local-blend

 

  For areas where added manganese is necessary:

 

Equi-VM  http://equine.uckele.com/vitamin-mineral/equi-vm.html

 

Sport Horse Grass  http://equine.uckele.com/vitamin-mineral/sport-horse-grass.html

 

Equi-Base Grass  http://equine.uckele.com/vitamin-mineral/equi-base-grass.html

 

Arizona Copper Complete (contains manganese)  https://horsetech.com/equine-supplements/custom-non-stock-products/arizona-copper-complete

 

Note that one should find out if one is in an area needing selenium, or if you are in a selenium-rich area; the same applies to manganese. Your agricultural extension office should be able to tell you.

 

Now, regarding treats and carriers to put the vitamins and minerals in, here is a list of safe bagged feeds. Excepting the beet pulp and soy hull pellets (which need to be soaked, and are fine as carriers but too messy as treats), any can be safely used as treats.

 

Rinsed/soaked/rinsed non-molassed beet pulp pellets  (various)

 

Soy hull pellets (various)

 

 Nuzu Stabul 1 (available at Tractor Supply)  http://stabul1.com/stabul-1/

 

ODTB cubes = TC Naturals Timothy Balance cubes http://www.ontariodehy.com/tab02-07.htm

 

LMF Low NSC Stage 1  http://lmffeeds.com/low-nsc-stage-1/ 

 

LMF Low NSC Complete http://lmffeeds.com/low-nsc-complete/  

 

(LMF Senior Low Carb: fat too high at 8%)

 

Haystack Low Carb/Low Fat Pellets  http://haystackfeeds.com/?page_id=69 

 

What you are looking for in safe feeds is an ESC + starch of less than 10%, with the starch content being less than 4%, and no added iron (which often hides under the name "ferrous" : ferrous sulfate, etc)

 

Trim is also a very important component, and often overlooked. When you get a chance, take some photos of Booker's body condition (side shot, neck shot, behind shot); and the hooves. Info on good hoof and body photos can be found on the Wiki page:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/home#Photos-and-Hoof-Evaluation-Help       

 

Exercise is a great insulin buster, but with Booker you obviously have to be careful due to his previous tendon issues.

 

Ask any and all questions, and, again, welcome!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


Update Your Information PLEASE!, Wed, 6/7/17 #cal-notice

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