Date   

Re: Case History Review

 

Hi, Amber, and welcome!  What a fabulous job on turning your mare around, and on the very clear case history.

You can put in "Resolving" or "Improving" in the symptom list, or you can put it into the comments section, as you have done. There is nothing like getting the sassy herd leader back, and I am very happy for the both of you!
Good work on being pro-active. If Sunny were mine, I would increase the pergolide to 2 mg, by 1/2 mg every 4 days, assuming she didn't have any problems with the veil when she started it in November.  The goal is to have ACTH at 20 or below at all times, and since the seasonal rise is just now starting, best to go to 2 mg, and then re-test in September, if funds allow.

Your post has made my day!

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


Splash updated photos

k frog
 

Hi Lavinia and all,
 I have added some recent photos of Splash's hooves. She is moving great and I have started exercising her under saddle. Trail rides at her chosen pace, within reason. She can be a spitfire. 
 I feel like my trim is making progress, along with her growth. The traumatized section of hoof seems to have grown out from last Octobers laminitis attack.  She tends to flare laterally on both fronts, the right is worse, but she also toes out, so I think this will be a constant maintanence issue with her. 
 I'm also trying to get her heels back a bit. Pete Ramey suggested to rasp a 5* angle at the back of the heels. That is currently my plan. 
 I'm open to suggestions, and comments on the new photos. It is a constant work in progress. 
--
Karen F

 

October 2013

Molalla, Oregon

Case History for Splash: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Splash

Photo Album for Splash: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1994

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Case History Review

LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>
 

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 04:20 pm, <sunygirl06@...> wrote:
One other question I had regarding the case history is should I put in there when her cushings/IR symptoms have or are resolving or improving?
Hi Amber,
When you get a chance, yes.  You did a FAB job with your case history.  It is fabulous seeing the history of the past few years on a new case history.  
One of the Support Team will soon be guiding you through the DDT/E.  
Oh and so that the team can see your hay analysis your case history should be linked to your folder, not the actual Case History Document:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Sunny

I think your signature should appear on your next message. 
 
--

- ​LeeAnne

ECIR Archivist, Newmarket, Ontario March 2004

Email Me - if link fails use ECIR.Archives at gmail dot com

Is your equine in the Pergolide Dosage Database? View the Pergolide Statistics

  Dawn's 10 Year Case History
     Taken For Granite Art

 

Quote of the moment: The human spirit must prevail over technology. - Albert Einstein
 


Re: Help with laminitic horse currently in crisis

LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>
 

Oh and Charm's Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=7161
Denise, if you need help with your signature, just email me :-)
--

- ​LeeAnne

ECIR Archivist, Newmarket, Ontario March 2004

Email Me - if link fails use ECIR.Archives at gmail dot com

Is your equine in the Pergolide Dosage Database? View the Pergolide Statistics

  Dawn's 10 Year Case History
     Taken For Granite Art

 

Quote of the moment: The human spirit must prevail over technology. - Albert Einstein
 


Re: Help with laminitic horse currently in crisis

LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>
 

Denise has uploaded Charm's case history:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Denise%20and%20Charm
Not sure where she sits on the signature though.  
Great work Denise - I know you were having a rough time with getting it uploaded.  Just a small issue to correct when you have a chance or on your next update, can you add the dates when you noticed symptoms (as close as possible helps better than "x") .  
Hang in there, keep reading and asking questions.

- ​LeeAnne

ECIR Archivist, Newmarket, Ontario March 2004

Email Me - if link fails use ECIR.Archives at gmail dot com

Is your equine in the Pergolide Dosage Database? View the Pergolide Statistics

  Dawn's 10 Year Case History
     Taken For Granite Art

 

Quote of the moment: The human spirit must prevail over technology. - Albert Einstein
 


Re: Photo Upload

Lorna Cane
 
Edited

Hi Olya,

I'm not sure if this is what you mean.
But here are links to Pete Ramey's pix and articles:

http://www.hoofrehab.com/SinkingCoffinBones.html

http://www.hoofrehab.com/SinkingCoffinBones2.html

I just Googled Sinking of the Coffin Bone to find the above.

--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002

 

 


Case History Review

sunygirl06@...
 

Hi,
I have been following the group for almost a year now after my mare suffered from acute laminitis due to cushings. I have finally completed and uploaded her case history with all of the changes we have in her lifestyle and diet. I am thinking with our latest ACTH from May that I should increase her pergolide dosage-but should I bump it to 1.5mg or 2 mg? I will need to talk to my vet about getting a generic pergolide script.I have just got her hay analysis back which I will upload today for this year's hay supply and plan to have her diet balanced by one of your people. I have NOT been soaking her hay-and with the ESC and starch below 10 percent I am feeling relieved. But her lab work was based off her eating last years hay unsoaked and unanalyzed-it may have been above 10 percent and contributing to her uncompensated IR status. She started her new hay at the beginning of June. I already have the list of balancers. One other question I had regarding the case history is should I put in there when her cushings/IR symptoms have or are resolving or improving? I did my automatic signature but I do not see it popping up at the bottom of this message. Hopefully it will appear in 24 hours? Thanks for all of your help, I felt very hopeless last year and was seriously debating on putting her down. With your recommendations and starting the pergolide I have my horse back.

[Just in case my signature doesn't show up]
Amber Lauer and Sunny https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Sunny/Sunny%20Case%20History.pdf 


Re: New year's hay

Karen Warne
 

Thank you...  that is exactly what I ended up doing, which is requested a 601 for the hay I am considering, nad if it comes back good, I'll retest with the 603 the hay that actually gets delivered.   Currently, I am using up the 18 bales of hay that has the analysis posted, and Claire Cox was wonderful in providing me the balancing formula that I got from Horsetech.  Just trying to get myself all prepared for this coming year now.  :-). I so appreciate the time you and others have spent giving me all the facts and info to consider.
--

Karen and Luke 

May 1 2017

Northern California

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Luke

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=5921


Re: Jiaogulan preparation - 2nd Request

Sandy Carr
 

No I haven't but I will because that would sure would be easier than loading all the dose syringes.  If he doesn't do you think I can maybe up a couple ahead of time?  Would the applesauce change anything, or the refrigeration?

Thanks!
--
Sandy

 

March 2017, Corona, New Mexico, USA

Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sandy%20and%20Andy . 
                        https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6171 .


Photo Upload

Olya
 

Please upload the following images to the article "Sinking of the coffin bone" 

Thank you. 


Re: MB Vitamin and Trace Mineral Pack

kguest@...
 

I buy custom minerals from Scott and he's been great. When we were in the quote stage I had to prod him with a follow up email to get back to me, but delivery of the product has been easy and quick ever since (I also have to prod him to send me invoices, but I find that sort of endearing).

Kristen and Jasper, December 2016
BC, Canada


Re: Eeyore is much worse

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

No, I don't think you need them earlier and waiting until he's more comfortable standing makes perfect sense. Can also plan ahead to do nerve blocks if necessary to make him comfortable. Just be sure to get navicular views and a dorsopalmar to check the edge of the coffin bone.
--
Eleanor in PA

 

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001


Re: Khaiti's coat

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Hi Theresa,

Great to hear she's still kicking! I totally agree with Jaini.
--
Eleanor in PA

 

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001


Re: Jesse and return to work allowed??

 

This is a long shot, LJ, but is there a water treadmill facility or horse pool anywhere nearby?  My buddies in the Calgary area rehab their lame beasts at such a facility, and it gives them great exercise without compromising the feet.

Since Jesse has never been in shoes, I would stick with the transition boots. Shoes will prevent proper hoof mechanism, and will also result in more concussion on his joints above the feet, which you don't want.

Rather than either ridden work or lunging, it is possible to lunge in the arena, using the whole arena, with the lunger jogging along so there aren't endless circles; just long sides, corners and short sides as when ridden. The lunger (or, more correctly, longeur) could trot Jesse up the long sides, and walk him on the corners and short sides. I used to do this with a horse I was re-habbing, and I am older, fat, and very unfit, but I could still manage it, so your trainer should be able to. It is a lot less running on the part of the person than one might think.

I would definitely not do the usual lunging.
--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


Re: MB Vitamin and Trace Mineral Pack

 

Sorry, my bad regarding the Vitamin and Trace Mineral Mix. I just read Dr. Kellon's remarks concerning excessive A and D. Geez, you would think I would know by now to read past the minerals and take more note of the vitamins!  However, as this is short term, you will be okay.
--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


Re: Khaiti's coat

 

Good heavens, Theresa, you and Khaiti have been through a lot!

This is just my opinion, and hopefully people who need to clip more than once each season will chime in. If she is just too warm, then I would suggest clipping again; you can always put on temporary blankets in the winter if need be. If she is maintaining her comfort (her new coat is not too heavy), then hold off.

Next year, think about adding some Chaste Tree Berry to her regime, as that can aid in coat shedding (although it doesn't help with ACTH).  
--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


Re: Help with laminitic horse currently in crisis

 

 
Hi, Denise, and welcome to the list!  Your story sounds very much like my story of 9 years ago. After doing what I thought was best for my horses, two of them foundered within weeks of each other. With the protocol from this list, both recovered and were back to being ridden. Like you, I had fattish horses on more-or-less free-choice feed, plus a commercial vitamin/mineral supplement, and I was completely gobsmacked when laminitis reared its ugly head.
 

The list philosophy is Diagnosis, Diet, Trim, and Exercise, as a systematic approach to PPID, IR and/or laminitis recovery.

 

Diagnosis is by blood tests: Blood should be pulled from a non-fasting horse (or pony) in a quiet barn; blood spun, separated, and frozen or chilled asap, then sent to the lab at Cornell on ice. Ask for insulin, glucose, and leptin, and ACTH. This is a single blood draw: it is not recommended to do the low-dose dexamethasone suppression test for Cushing's (PPID), as endogenous ACTH is equally accurate, and without risk of exacerbating laminitis.  Similarly, a non-fasting insulin, glucose and leptin will be able to diagnose IR without doing the Oral Glucose Tolerance Test (which again can exacerbate the laminitis).  The blood for the ACTH goes into purple-topped tubes; for the other analytes it goes into red-topped tubes.  You can print off the information for your vet from the files below:  The basic protocol is hay only before the test; test 4 hours or more after the very first hay meal of the day if the horse doesn't get hay overnight; and keep hay in front of the horse until the vet comes. This is the only time free-choice hay is recommended!  Don't trailer to the vet for testing, as that will artificially increase the ACTH.  

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/2%20DDT%20-%20%20The%20Diet%20Diagnosis%20and%20Trim%20Protocol/DDT%20Diagnosis.pdf

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/4%20Insulin%20Resistance/2%20Diagnosing%20Insulin%20Resistance%202012.pdf

 

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Blood%20Testing%20for%20IR%20and%20PPID

https://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/test/list.aspx?Species=Equine&WebDisc=&TstTyp=&Test_Name=acth   Click on ACTH, insulin and leptin for blood handling instructions.  Don't forget to get your vet to add glucose to the form.

 

 

Diet is supremely important, in some ways more for what is not fed: no pasture, sweet feeds, oats/grain, carrots, apples, iron-containing supplements.  Diet consists of grass hay or haylage, with ESC (soluble sugars) and starch of less than 10%, plus minerals balanced to the forage, plus vitamin E, salt, and flaxseed or flaxseed oil.  One can use a carrier of beet pulp (rinsed, soaked, and rinsed) as a safe feed to get the supplements in.  The hay should be fed at 2% of  his ideal weight, or 1.5% of his current weight, whichever is greatest. For your horse, this is 18 lbs of hay daily. Because insulin-resistant horses are also often leptin-resistant, it is best to feed the hay in some kind of slow-feeding hay net, because their body doesn't get the message from the hormone leptin that they can stop eating, and they will hoover up all the hay in front of them within a short period of time. 

 

Because your boy is currently laminitic, I would stop the SmartPak Essentials for now (I see maltodextrin in the ingredients, and although it may be only a tiny amount, it may also be a larger amount - can't tell from the info on the page): https://www.smartpakequine.com/ps/smartessentials-pellets-12163    We can re-visit vitamins/minerals later.  I would also substitute something else for the timothy pellets. Timothy pellets tend to get made from the less mature hays, with higher sugars, because this binds into pellets more easily. Most of them would be okay, but there is no way to know for sure. Beet pulp (rinsed/soaked/rinsed) and soy hull pellets are safe; or you can soak the timothy pellets and pour the water off.

 

I am not sure what to recommend regarding the GI Ultra:  https://www.smartpakequine.com/ps/smartgi-ultra-pellets--11920  Because he is on Bute, he definitely needs some gut protection. If it were me, I would start omeprazole (GastroGard) instead, for the next month or 6 weeks, at the full dose while on bute, then at the prevention dose, and cut out the GI Ultra for now.  Once everything else is settled out, he could go back on the GI Ultra if indicated.

 

The Temporary Emergency Diet uses hay soaked for 1 hour in cold water, or 30 minutes in hot water, with the water drained where the horses can't get at it; plus vitamin E, salt, and ground flaxseed in a safe carrier such as beet pulp (rinsed, soaked, rinsed).  More info on Temporary Emergency Diet here:

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/2%20DDT%20-%20%20The%20Diet%20Diagnosis%20and%20Trim%20Protocol/DDT%20Diet.pdf

 

Some info on slow-feeding here:   

http://paddockparadise.wikifoundry.com/  

 

 

Trim:  This is a trim physiologically balanced to the internal shape of the coffin bone, with short toe and low heels.  Trim is often a neglected or mis-understood piece of the puzzle. More information here:

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/2%20DDT%20-%20%20The%20Diet%20Diagnosis%20and%20Trim%20Protocol/DDT%20Trim.pdf

 

 

Exercise: This is the best EMS buster there is, but only if the pony/horse is comfortable and non-laminitic.  A horse that has suffered laminitis needs a good 6 to 9 months of correct hoof re-growth before any kind of serious exercise can begin. Believe it or not, though, once the laminitis triggers are removed, and the hoof can start growing correctly, that time will fly by.

I can visualize you tearing your hair out for the last two weeks. Take a deep breath, keep reading, and know that you can help your horse. The information here can be overwhelming, but take it one day at a time.

Ask any and all questions, and again, welcome!

--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


Khaiti's coat

Theresa Leri <tleri@...>
 

My Khaiti, age 34, has had quite a few months. Began in February where we were forced to evacuate due to the dam failure in Oroville, CA. She had to leave her home of 20 years in the middle of the night and was evacuated to Loomis Basin Equine Hospital, thank god. Of course, the stress caused colic. But Loomis was absolutely on top of it and she recovered nicely. She has remained at Loomis as a full-time boarder and receiving FABULOUS care, around the clock. I feel very fortunate. Then, (there is always a "then") in April she contracted a staph pneumonia and was treated aggressively for several weeks. She was a very ill girl. With more excellent care, she has recovered and is spunky and kicking up her heels again. We live in the Sacramento Valley and have very hot summer temps. I have needed to body clip her the past two summers, even though her ACTH appears to be in check, and her Prascend dose appears adequate, though we are re-testing before fall. I body clipped in June. I noticed she is starting to shed the summer coat already and I worry that she will have too much new coat to be comfortable into the first of November when our temps will finally be cooler. Is it advisable to body clip again or will i completely compromise her winter coat?  Thank you for your thoughts.


Re: MB Vitamin and Trace Mineral Pack

redrockwood@...
 

Thank you very kindly Jaini!   when the 2017 crop comes in, is tested, etc. - I will reach out to Scott to have a custom mix made up.   I have at least two friends at my boarding barn who may be interested in sharing the “same batch” - incentive for him?  maybe?

I do have the Vitamin & Trace Mineral on order (should be here soon) - in the meanwhile, I continue to forge ahead.

Heather
--
Heather Baskey (& Pip)

June 2017

Ontario, Canada

Case History Link:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Pip


Re: Sinking of the coffin bone

 

Hi, Olga, and welcome to the list. Your gelding is simply gorgeous!  I am sorry your boy and you are going through this. As Lavinia said, Arabs frequently have an IR metabolic type (and recently, a genetic marker has been discovered in Arabs for this); once they stop work, it is common for them to have their insulin levels spike, and this results in laminitis.  I didn't see any of the usual physical warning signs on your horse: fat pads, fat above the eyes, fat body condition and so on, so this is doubly an occurrence of very bad luck.

The list philosophy is Diagnosis, Diet, Trim, and Exercise, as a systematic approach to PPID, IR and/or laminitis recovery.

 

Diagnosis is by blood tests: Blood should be pulled from a non-fasting horse (or pony) in a quiet barn; blood spun, separated, and frozen or chilled asap, then sent to the lab on ice Ask for insulin, glucose, and leptin, and ACTH. The blood for the ACTH goes into purple-topped tubes; for the other analytes it goes into red-topped tubes.  The insulin, glucose and leptin will determine if your horse is insulin-resistant; the ACTH is to check for Cushing's disorder. It would be rare for a 10-year-old to have Cushing's, but it does happen occasionally.   Because this does seem to have come out of the blue, was there anything else that could have caused an insulin increase, such as extra high starch feed in May, or very sudden stopping of exercise; or an illness with fever?

More information at these locations:

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/2%20DDT%20-%20%20The%20Diet%20Diagnosis%20and%20Trim%20Protocol/DDT%20Diagnosis.pdf

 

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/4%20Insulin%20Resistance/2%20Diagnosing%20Insulin%20Resistance%202012.pdf

 

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Blood%20Testing%20for%20IR%20and%20PPID

 

 

Diet is supremely important, in some ways more for what is not fed: no pasture, sweet feeds, oats/grain, carrots, apples, iron-containing supplements.  Diet consists of grass hay or haylage, with ESC (soluble sugars) and starch of less than 10%, plus minerals balanced to the forage, plus vitamin E, salt, and flaxseed or flaxseed oil.  One can use a carrier of beet pulp (rinsed, soaked, and rinsed) as a safe feed to get the supplements in.   The Temporary Emergency Diet uses hay soaked for 1 hour in cold water, or 30 minutes in hot water, with the water drained where the horses can't get at it; plus vitamin E, salt, and ground flaxseed in a safe carrier such as beet pulp (rinsed, soaked, rinsed).  More info on Temporary Emergency Diet here: 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/2%20DDT%20-%20%20The%20Diet%20Diagnosis%20and%20Trim%20Protocol/DDT%20Diet.pdf


As Lavinia said, I would start the Temporary Emergency Diet right away. I suspect water conservation may be an issue, but if you can possibly do it, start soaking the hay - you need just to cover the hay with the water. When I used to soak hay, I used the soak water in my garden without ill effect to the plants.   Where is your hay brought in from? The UAE has a pretty big population of horses, but no hay growing, I believe.

Some members (including me) have seen dramatic pain reduction in the horse once the emergency diet is started, and other feeds are removed. 

Trim:  This is a trim physiologically balanced to the internal shape of the coffin bone, with short toe and low heels.  Trim is often a neglected or mis-understood piece of the puzzle. More information here:

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/2%20DDT%20-%20%20The%20Diet%20Diagnosis%20and%20Trim%20Protocol/DDT%20Trim.pdf

 

 If the heart-bar shoes and equipak pads are not helping, at the next trim you can try hoof boots such as EasyCare Clouds, or EasyCare Rx, or SoftRides; or tape blue styrofoam to the bottom of the feet with duct tape.  You don't need the fancy shaped styrofoam pads; just cut out pads from blue building styrofoam insulation.  (how-to video here:  http://www.hopeforsoundness.com/cms/first-aid-for-laminitis---styrofoam.html   

Here is some information about correcting sinkers: http://www.hoofrehab.com/DistalDescent.htm  



Exercise
: This is the best EMS buster there is, but only if the pony/horse is comfortable and non-laminitic.  A horse that has suffered laminitis needs a good 6 to 9 months of correct hoof re-growth before any kind of serious exercise can begin. Believe it or not, though, once the laminitis triggers are removed, and the hoof can start growing correctly, that time will fly by.

Ask any and all questions, and again, welcome!


--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 

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