Date   

Re: Are new pics needed of Andy before Tuesday, August 1st farrier appointment?

Sandy Carr
 

Thanks SO, SO much!
--
Sandy

 

March 2017, Corona, New Mexico, USA

Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sandy%20and%20Andy . 
                        https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6171 .


Re: Lettuce

Patty Franklin
 

Thanks for the ideas, Barbara!
--
Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID)
May 2017
Scappoose, OR  USA

Blessing's Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing
Blessing's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847 


Review Please; New LF images

Patty Franklin
 

Just uploaded new images of Blessing's left front trim. Would appreciate an evaluation of work. Trimmer will be back in 3 weeks. Updated CH as well.
Thank you, everyone!
--
Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID)
May 2017
Scappoose, OR  USA

Blessing's Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing
Blessing's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847 


New Radiographs of Splash

k frog
 

Hello group,
 I have posted new radiographs of Splash's feet. These were taken two weeks out from her last trim. I trim her approx. every two weeks. She is 9 months out from her acute onset of laminitis. I am pleased with the improvement in the angle of P3 on both feet. I'm disappointed in the appearance of mineralization at the tip of P3 on both feet. It is interesting to me because I always associated that with chronc laminitis, but those mineralizations were not visible in her rads from last November. So, I guess I've learned that those can develop from one serious episode of a laminitis event.
 I also had her insulin/glucose labs repeated. I was disappointed that her insulin has not dropped more. She is still severely IR. I will update her case history as soon as I can. Ineptness on my part.
 She is doing fabulous outwardly. Energetic, bright, feisty as ever. Walks sound barefoot across the gravel drive.
 I'll be holding my breath come October. My management is not really any different now from last year when she had her laminitic attack. She is #50 lighter, but will a body score 5.5 instead of a 6 really be enough? 
--
Karen F

 

October 2013

Molalla, Oregon

Case History for Splash: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Splash

Photo Album for Splash: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1994

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Are new pics needed of Andy before Tuesday, August 1st farrier appointment?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Sandy,

No, you don't need new pix.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6171&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0

Generally, just keep working toward the same goals as the last time. The original mark-ups are your end goal so you can refer to them (and the narrative).

Toes are looking much better, just keep a good bevel on them that goes around the hoof from about 9-3. Keep the flares pulled inward - you can easily see them when you look down onto the hoof from above - and remove/smooth out any larger cracks/chips. There should be no obvious "corners" in the walls - if you find any, bring them inward til they blend with the adjacent wall.

Keep checking the collateral groove depths so that you can tell when there is enough depth available to work more on moving the heels rearward. Need to have a minimum of 1" at the deepest point before you can do more than a single swipe across the rearmost portion of the heels. Also, want to be sure the depth is the same on both grooves on the same foot so that the balance remains correct.

Be conservative with anything coming off the soles, frogs, bars. Only remove flaps, tags, broken or cracked portions. The stretched tips of some of the frogs may be loosening up at this point - if they are, they can be nipped back as well but no need to excavate for them. Don't worry if the sole itself appears to be lumpy or uneven as that is just the foot trying to increase overall depth but it occurs in bits and pieces sometimes.

--
Lavinia and George Too

Dante, Peanut, Nappi and George over the Bridge

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team


Re: Flavorings in feed to encourage eating / cost of pergolide

Sandy Carr
 

Tory,

I have had great success with Pet Health Pharmacy in Arizona.  I pay about $86 including shipping for 90 doses of 1 mg. Pergolide.  You usually talk straight to the pharmacist who is very knowledgeable and explains it all in non-technical language.  Great people.
--
Sandy

 

March 2017, Corona, New Mexico, USA

Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sandy%20and%20Andy . 
                        https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6171 .


Re: Flavorings in feed to encourage eating / cost of pergolide

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

Hi Tory,

Like Lorna, if I had to use Prascend for my now-deceased PPID boy, I would have had to put him down as there was no way I could have afforded the cost for 21mg of Prascend daily. Plus, administering 21 caplets would have been a royal pain.

Compounded pergolide (we recommend the capsule form) is an extremely affordable (and effective) option when purchased thru a reputable compounding pharmacy. You need a script from your vet. Here's the link to the Wiki where a list of compounding pharmacies that members here have used can be found:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/ECIR-Links

Generally, cost starts around $30 per month for a 1mg daily dose. Savings are greater at the higher doses.

--
Lavinia and George Too

Dante, Peanut, Nappi and George over the Bridge

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team


Re: Prascend for seasonal rise only?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

A false negative is probably possible, even with TRH. A big reason for this is that the output of ACTH is actually much smaller than the other POMC derived hormones. The focus on ACTH began with the concept of this being like Cushing's disease in other species but it is actually more complicated than just ACTH and cortisol.  I have feelers out to see if there is a research laboratory working on alpha-MSH that might be willing to do outside samples for horses like Diego. However, the seasonal rise complicates that too. For now, it might be wise to see if your veterinarian would agree to a trial of pergolide at least during the seasonal rise months.

LJ recently asked why ACTH rises seasonally and why in the fall. The rise in ACTH is probably just a secondary consequence of a temporary drop in sensitivity to dopamine that occurs in the fall and triggers the coat change.  Day length is definitely involved, so likely melatonin. Prolactin and the sex hormones are also affected. In normal horses, there are no consequences to the temporary ACTH rise and the younger they are, the smaller it is.
--
Eleanor in PA

 

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001


Re: Cornell lab information

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Flax phytoestrogens won't have an estrogenic effect in a normal mare but the IR  mares with ovarian involvement may have low estrogen. However, when put on estrogen the udders normalize so my guess would be it's the normal flax antiestrogen effect you are getting. Flax phytoestrogens are much weaker than normal estrogen so when they bind to receptors and block normal estrogen the effect is antiestrogen.
--
Eleanor in PA

 

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001


Re: Lettuce

Barbara Rosensteel
 

Hi Helen,

I don't know what you have tried so far but, for my mare (now deceased), I mixed the supplements and ground flax seed into a cupful of a pelleted feed.  What finally got her to eat it all was adding an ounce of Coca-soya oil to hold it all together and a 1/2 cup of split peas.  She loved the taste of the Coca-soya oil and loved the split peas (which I also fed as a treat).    The pelleted feed I used at the time was Blue Seal CarbGuard, but any pelleted feed listed in the ECIR files as safe (under 10% ESC+Starch) will work.  
--
Barbara Rosensteel

Sept 2007, Cookeville TN


Prascend for seasonal rise only?

 

Hi all,

So the seasonal rise is approaching. I was wondering if it is advisable to put Diego on prascend for this time. The reason I'm not sure is because his clinical signs and blood results do not necessarily correlate. 

He LOOKS like a horse with PPID: curly winter coat, slow to shed, droopy lower lip, goopy eyes, and poor topline. 
His ACTH is normal, as well as TRH stim results as of last May. Both are right in the middle of the reference range. My understanding is that the TRH is a very sensitive test. Is it possible to get a false negative? 

I put him him on prascend for the fall last year, but am curious what you all think about his situation. I'm also wondering if he should really be on it year round without the bloodwork to support that decision. Of course I don't want him to need medication, but will bite the bullet and do what is necessary if that's what he really needs. According to Dr. K his IR alone could be the cause of the missing topline and poor appearance overall, so I just don't know. 
Thank you in advance. 
--
Toni and Diego
Egg harbor township/NJ/ US 
Jul 2017


Re: Flavorings in feed to encourage eating / cost of pergolide

Lorna Cane
 

Ask your vet to give you a script for the compounded pergolide product.
I would have had to put all my boys down long ago had I had to use Prascend,


--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002

 

 


Re: Flavorings in feed to encourage eating / cost of pergolide

- - <orders@...>
 

Hi Lorna, In the US prascend is about $2/day for 1 mg. I am guessing that either you are paying $28/day to medicate your pony mule, or you have a more economical source for pergolide than I do. If I got to your dose, and I may with an ACTH of 1500, I would have to put Miss Manners down on price alone because that dose would be approaching a thousand ($1,000) per month. What to do?
--
Tory and Miss Manners
Maryland, US
7/17


Re: Jesse and return to work allowed??

LJ Friedman
 

Jesse had another training session today.. ( I didn't video)
What a difference. Seems he's gotten used to his new boots.  Two trainers commented how he looked amazing..His trainer said he looked almost sound.
We did much longer straight lines than shown on his video . When asked to trot and stretch his neck down. Jesse did that  and held it very nicely. At this point,  his trainer  Julie is working him at his own pace..   . At this point of rehab. . If Jesse  wont do something that is asked of him, . than the trainer  wont ask again.  Very pleased with how things are progressing. . Will video his improvement next time I'm at the barn while he is being worked. 
--

LJ Friedman  Nov 2014  San Diego, CA

 

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=2117 

.https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/LJ%20and%20Jesse


Tabby's New Test Results

Sally Stults <jsstults@...>
 

Hello...

I was aiming to re-do Tabby's blood work in August.  However, when I went out to the barn this past Monday, I found my girl with a hard and swollen udder (I have seen it much worse) which prompted me to re-test her sooner to make sure her Pergolide dose is in a good place prior to the seasonal rise.  Thankfully, she is moving well and not exhibiting any heat or pulses in her hooves.  We have had more than twice the normal rain fall here for the month of July, and it is an explosion of green outside.  For the first time, I understand why this part of Arizona is called the Verde Valley.  It has been a true challenge to keep the green off of her Paddock Paradise style dirt track without using any herbicides.  I spend 45 minutes outside digging bermuda grass and weeds every morning before the heat and humidity and lack of physical stamina drive me inside.  If I put on her muzzle after she finishes breakfast, she will stand in the shade of her stall all day without moving.

The information on her Case History has been updated, including her Cornell test results that came back today with an ACTH reading of 22.2.  I will be very appreciative of your recommendations concerning her Pergolide dose after you have had a chance to review, and will welcome your feedback on her current diet and supplements, and thoughts on the advisability of dosing her with ALCAR for her IR.  

Tabby was fed her morning hay 4 hours before the vet arrived to do the blood draw.  However, my senior dog had an emergency and I did not get back out to the barn a second time before her appointment, so she was likely without any hay to eat for about 1.5 hours before he pulled blood... if that might factor in to your evaluation of her test results.  My vet does not normally run Leptin, and I forgot to remind him about it on Wednesday, so have asked him to call Cornell on Monday to see if they are able to add it on.  

With my thanks,
Sally 04/2013

Big Park, Arizona

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sally%20and%20Tabby  

 


Re: Flavorings in feed to encourage eating

Lorna Cane
 

It's probably me,Stephanie.
In any case, it's hard to say because they are individuals. I think you bumped the dose on July 3rd ? That might not be enough time to notice a difference.
I think it took about 3 weeks for me to see a difference in my pony mule by bumping up 2mg.But that's not to say it should apply to Katie.
Are you still feeding the ODTBC ? How many pounds would you say she is getting a day of those?Again,  we need the test results to tell us if going to 5mg has helped.
I'm sorry to be so useless,but it would be wrong for me to say that 6mg will probably do it. Or 7mg. Or...you get the picture.

One thing that would help with the expense of the drug is to ask your vet for a script for the compounded product. Way less expensive.



--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002

 

 


Re: Flavorings in feed to encourage eating

Stepht
 

Sorry,  I'm not communicating my thoughts too well. I was wondering what your thoughts were on noticing a slow down in weight loss and an increase in appetite as the appropriate dose is being reached.  Since I am not seeing either, this might indicate that Katie's dose of Prascend will have to be increased way above the current 5mg dose. In other words, will I suddenly see a change at 6 mg or will it take bumping the dose to 10 mg?   I wondered if you had any experience with this. 

Thanks!


--
Stephanie Thomson August 2, 2016

 

Liberty, Missouri

Katie Case History

Katie Photo Album  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6072

Katie Lab Values Folder  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stephanie%20and%20Katie 


Re: Lettuce

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Helen,

Sometimes, they test our resolve to no end. Some horses just won't eat their supplements in any kind of safe carrier (or even in a NOT safe carrier). For those you just sigh and use a syringe. Been there, done that. Adds another chore to your list but it's doable.
--
Lavinia and George Too

Dante, Peanut, Nappi and George over the Bridge

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team


Re: Flavorings in feed to encourage eating

Lorna Cane
 

On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 10:07 am, Stepht wrote:
it must indicate I have a long way to go before I reach the therapeutic dose for her at this time.  What are your thoughts on that?
Hi Stephanie,

I'm not sure I understand your question.

My thoughts on a long way to go ?

We don't know anything without the test results. But if they indicate the PPID is not controlled,*I* would be increasing by 1mg at a time,until I noticed some changes - providing there isn't something else responsible for the weight loss.
This is where the CH comes in so handy.
But then I have never had a horse with the 'veil',so I've been able to increase doses in a timely fashion,especially after the doses reach 3 or so mgs.
I just recently bumped my pony mule from 12 to 14mg in one fell swoop.
Not all situations are the same.

 
--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002

 

 


Re: Lettuce

Patty Franklin
 

I'm sorry. She wouldn't eat the salad with her supplements, either. She has a good appetite. She just doesn't like certain things. I'll try the snipped hay since she's eating that at every opportunity.
--
Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID)
May 2017
Scappoose, OR  USA

Blessing's Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing
Blessing's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847 

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