Date   

Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Karen Warne
 

Thank you Helen... yes, we are actually close so should meet someday.  I am in Shingle Springs.
--

Karen and Luke 

May 1 2017

Northern California

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Luke

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=5921


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Karen Warne
 


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Nancy C
 

On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 04:51 am, Eleanor Kellon, VMD wrote:
I'll be spending an hour looking at this question of inflammation and fat in equine IR.
Just to be clear, and especially for new folks ---

Dr. Kellon is talking about an hour at the 2017 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 27-29,2017 in beautiful Tucson, AZ.

Veterinary and hoof pro continuing ed credits available.

Early bird pricing of $250 expires 09.23.17

All speaker and lecture info, continuing ed info, conference registration and Hilton reservations can be found at www.nolaminitis.org

Thank you for the opportunity to get this commercial in one more time!
 
I am so looking forward to this and to seeing you all.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

 

Save the date! The ECIR Group Inc. NO Laminitis! Conference, October 27-29, Tucson, AZ

Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot
ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
ecirhorse.org



Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

 

I am near Santa Rosa California.  No problem to ship to Cornell.  You just have to get your vet to contact them and learn the ropes.

Gail Russell
Forestville CA
July 2009


Re: Electrolytes for "the move"

Jane Fletcher
 

I bought it in Australia from Gravel Proof Hoof, Pauline Moore. Hopefully should be available elsewhere!

Jane

Sent from my iPad

--
Jane, South East Western Australia
Nov 2016
Garnet and Bill


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Helen Temps
 

Karen, my Vet has sent to Cornell for me with no problem.  Have your Vet get the pre-paid overnight shipping labels from Cornell for $15.  There should not be any problem.  I am also in No. Cal.
--

Helen Temps and Chloe  June 2017
Placerville, CA
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Chloe.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6929


Re: Flax seed oil capsules

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

If you were to feed 2 oz of  ground flax that would be 28,400 x 2 = 56.800 mg and at about 30% fat it's 0.3 x 56,800 = 17,040 mg or 34 500 mg capsules.

I think you're referring to flax lignans, not lignin.

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/dietary-factors/phytochemicals/lignans

There are no lignans in the oil.
--
Eleanor in PA

 

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Yes, the Thyro-L could be contributing to sweating and spookiness.
--
Eleanor in PA

 

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Just as a P.S. here, weight loss *is* fat loss if you do it correctly. You don't need thyroid hormone to get weight loss.
--
Eleanor in PA

 

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I'll be spending an hour looking at this question of inflammation and fat in equine IR. Bottom line is that it is not the same as the human condition. There are contradictory studies, and ponies appear to be different from full size horses which do not show the clear evidence of inflammation found in people.
--
Eleanor in PA

 

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001


Re: Flax seed oil capsules

Maggie
 

Hi Stephanie,


Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you are right that "pure" flaxseed oil does not contain lignan.  The "high lignan" flaxseed oil has the lignan added back in after the oil is expelled.


But I think your math is off for the dosage--or my brain is still asleep.  Here's Jaini's "make your brain hurt" post on flaxseed and flaxseed oil:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/203051   The most important part for you to know is this sentence:  "Horses on pasture eat about 17 grams/day omega 3 (1,000 lb horse)".  


1 gram = 1000mgs, so if your capsules contain 500 mg, and you need 17 grams (17000 mgs) my math shows that you need 34 capsules (yikes!)  to equal 17 grams of omega 3.  I *think* you may have only multiplied the 17 grams by 100 = 1700 divided by 500 = 3.4 capsules, but PLEASE recheck my math!!


Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response


Re: Early Cushing's??

Lorna Cane
 

On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 09:22 pm, LM wrote:
I tried the links in the wiki I think and a few of them were broken.
LM, and Everyone,when you find broken links please can you let us know which ones,so that we can fix them?
 
--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002

 

 


Re: Mineral Balancing

Kristen Singh
 

Thank you, Maggie!
--


Kristen 06/10

AZ

Thor

Case History


Thor's Photos

 


Re: New IR Diagnosis

Kristen Singh
 

Thank you, Lavinia. You are a wealth of knowledge! I trimmed his toes back on Monday the 4th as close as I dare to the edge of the sole and left his sole, bars and heels completely alone. I have yet to post new hoof pictures. I would appreciate it if someone would critique the trim and I'll try to get pictures posted soon. Thanks again so much for your help.
--


Kristen 06/10

AZ

Thor

Case History


Thor's Photos

 


Flax seed oil capsules

Stepht
 

Has anyone tried flax seed oil capsules in their horses' ration?

My mare seems to be sensitive to the lignin in the flax seed itself, so I've used the oil. Since I board, I would like to make it easier to feed and thought capsules would work. 

I don't see on the labels that the oil in the capsules have lignin. Is it safe to assume this is true?

It looks like the dose would be 3-4 500 mg capsules for a 1000 lb horse. Is that correct?

Thanks!
--
Stephanie Thomson August 2, 2016

 

Liberty, Missouri

Katie Case History

Katie Photo Album  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6072

Katie Lab Values Folder  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stephanie%20and%20Katie 


Re: New IR Diagnosis

Kristen Singh
 

Thank you, Dr. Kellon. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts on this. I'm considering talking to my vet about shockwave therapy or HA injections without corticosteroids to help with the symptoms.
--


Kristen 06/10

AZ

Thor

Case History


Thor's Photos

 


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Karen Warne
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon,

i appreciate that explanation, as I am goal oriented so it's helpful to have a number that is a goal... I am managing his diet and life as tight as I can, to the point everything revolves around him.  Lol.  He is my horse, but more importantly, he is my therapist, so I will keep it up as he does look so much better... except for that worrisome sweating and his longer than normal coat - unless I bodyclip him, which I've done twice this summer.  

A question regarding the l-thyroxine:  If the L-Thyroxine is making him a little hyperthyroid, could that be contributing to his sweating?   Also, could it also make him a little more jumpyn shopping  than normal?  He almost never spooks, but recently I am noticing him worrying about things a little more when there is something new...

Given your suggestion for the ACTH, I think I will plan on the TRH Stim test in the spring ~(March) when I retest his insulin Nd glucose.  

Thank you and God bless this group for your amazing help with Luke!  As an aside, I've changed all my Amazon shopping to the smile.amazon.com with the ECIR group being the beneficiary of the donations.  What a great and easy way to support this group as you all help our horses...

--

Karen and Luke 

May 1 2017

Northern California

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Luke

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=5921


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Karen Warne
 

Nancy,
Thank you so much for your thoughts and suggestions.  I have talked to my vet regarding sending labs to Cornell, but her hesitancy is due to the distance the blood needs to go.  I will ask again with our next blood draws in the spring.  
Thank you again... 
karen
--

Karen and Luke 

May 1 2017

Northern California

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Luke

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=5921


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

LM
 

Dr. Kellon, as I have said I'm not big on messing with another hormone feedback system like the thyroid. I was just wondering some argue its not just about the weight loss but the reduction of fat tissue as they are saying they are releasing inflammatory chemicals. Is that true to your knowledge?
Thank you
--
LM
March 2013
New Springfield, OH/Ft. Collins, CO

ShineysLittle Pistol
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/LM%20and%20Shineys%20Little%20Pistol
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9106


Re: Early Cushing's??

LM
 

Hi Lavinia,
Thanks for the thorough response. I agree and understand most everything but I'd like to ask for a few clarifications.
In the 2nd paragraph you write "the pain management ingredients" are you referring to just the whole picture, like all the pieces that go into the diet, trim, diagnosis and exercise or do you mean additionally finding the right mixture of nutrients, possibly herbals and meds to reduce the pain enough to get the heel first landing? I am hoping Dr. Kellon will still have an opportunity to comment on what I last asked about when it comes to diagnosis and med management because the vet is really wanting me to make it clear which way I am trying to go. And I am really not comfortable leaving the horse in pain for so long while we pull all these pieces together. When I type her name does it let her know? ( I can't even imagine how busy each of you are so I do ask with that understanding )

On the wedges I do tend to agree with you there about permanent wedges not being so great but do you think some horses are just conformationally compensated and have broken HPA axis therefore needing more than just the right trim to help them?  And in Shiney's case, we are constantly bringing back his toe and heel, without trying to lower it too much trying to get the foot to respond and actually the more aggressive we have gotten with his toe he is showing no response in the heel pain. O course there likely is other factors but what kind of timeline would you say, 4 mos. 8,12?  My friend that is the farrier standing in for me while I'm healing is a big believer that as you bring the toe back and in Shiney's case give him as soft a landing as possible to encourage heel first landing the whole hoof will start to grow more properly so we have that on our side but when I found a pic uploaded here of backing the toe up, it looked like the person went right through the white line, carefully but also maybe part of the toe pillars. Is that actually the case?

I did cut down a wedge pad and slide into boot, no immediate response but my inclination is he needs some soft padding too as his frogs are still part of the sensitive area though they have no infection right now. The boots and with wedges on inside had no cushion.

Yes his feet are very flat, they have been this way since I found him. They actually have a bit more concavity especially in back feet than they have had a few years ago. He has only started this quick exfoliating after being in the Clouds 24/7. I think I notice that both times it has been when it has been extremely hot out and despite artimud and lots of powder there is sweating that doesn't get to dry quickly. What the heck do people do when they are not in the desert like we are and it is hot and humid all the time? I have never found an abcess in his feet and he has never shown the typical severe immediate lameness you see with an access so I'm thinking it is the thinness. X-rays on Fri will tell.
I know in OH we had to remove everyday, disinfect boot, let foot, especially heel bulbs dry out. Wool socks helped but not when it rains, which is often. 

Almost done... We have been taking bringing the walls in so tight at trim ( not in pics ) that there maybe an 1/8' left to stand on and this is not more than 1/16' above the sole. Then we put Clouds on with the wedge pads.
So are you saying take the wall away completely as long as he is in the Clouds (or SoftRides)? And when you say cut out front in pads do you mean cut out where the coffin bone tip is or suspected pressure from rotation? That I have done in a half-moon shape so I'm not clear what you're describing when you say donut in front half. ( Maybe there is a pic somewhere? )
Last ? when you say ramp the heels, I'm not familiar with that term and am thinking I probably know it by another name. Can you give quick explanation or link? I tried the links in the wiki I think and a few of them were broken.

Ok thanks so much Lavinia for all your help!! It's truly priceless!


--
LM
March 2013
New Springfield, OH/Ft. Collins, CO

ShineysLittle Pistol
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/LM%20and%20Shineys%20Little%20Pistol
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9106

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