Date   

Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Karen Warne
 

Dr. Kellon,

Inflammation is a huge disease stimulator in humans, and I believe more and more that there must be a definite connection with the inflammatory processes and our horses.  Ever since I got Luke as a youngster, he has had inflammatory responses to grass (he had gingivitis which I figured out was due to the grass sitting on his gums, so I brush his teeth everyday... of course, now he has no grass at all), and he reacts to vaccines (I just did titers for WN this year due to past severe reactions), and bug bites have bugged him relentlessly (until I put him on flax several years ago), but the bug bite reactions are almost non-existent this summer since Claire suggested 10-12 Gms Chondroitin Sulfate/day.  That plus he's on his balanced diet with as low sugar as I can make it.  
--

Karen and Luke 

May 1 2017

Northern California

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Luke

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=5921


Re: Early Cushing's??

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi LM,

I was referring specifically to the "Neosporin + pain relief" product (or generic equivalent) itself:

https://www.neosporin.com/products/wound-care/pain-relief

A broken back HPA is a pathological condition that is created. As with any pathology, it's possible there is a hereditary component but generally, this is a trim problem. In a QH, especially in the hinds, it can happen in what seems like the blink of an eye as it seems the CB tends to sit at the lower end of the "normal" range for palmer angle and the slightest excess toe length sets up a ground parallel/negative plane scenario. Once that happens, it takes a lot of consistent attention to the trim to get it back to correct.

If you have Clouds, the pads should already be wedged. You could add the wedge in under the current cloud pad as a trial as I agree it sounds like he definitely needs to have soft padding for comfort. Yes, alleviate the pressure under the area where the leading edge of the coffin bone is - which you have already done :)

It looks like he needs every millimeter of height he has in the back half of his feet so don't try to move those heels back at all. The xrays will really be helpful here - just please be sure they are done technically correctly and the dorsal wall and frog location are marked.You don't want to waste precious funds on lousy xrays. Check here for the specifics:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/Getting-Good-X-rays

Ramp or bevel the heel: Leaving the current heel buttresses completely alone, bevel the remaining under run heel area slightly, starting at the rear of the current buttress and moving back toward the heel bulbs. Bevel the heels in his boots the same way. Does that make more sense?

How does he land when he moves? If it's toe first, it's sabotaging everything you're trying to do. Heel first is the goal but at least flat for now. One possibility here may be to try rim casts instead of the boots. That way, you don't get the soggy factor messing things up. Plus, it would help with keeping the wall integrity stronger. But first, you need to get the trim set up well.

Let's see what the xrays tell us, then we can devise a better strategy going forward.
--
Lavinia and George Too

Dante, Peanut, Nappi and George over the Bridge

Jan 05, RI

ECIR Support Team


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Karen Warne
 

Thank you... I had wondered, knowing that hyperthyroid is an issue in humans too.
--

Karen and Luke 

May 1 2017

Northern California

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Luke

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=5921


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Karen Warne
 

Thank you Helen... yes, we are actually close so should meet someday.  I am in Shingle Springs.
--

Karen and Luke 

May 1 2017

Northern California

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Luke

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=5921


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Karen Warne
 


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Nancy C
 

On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 04:51 am, Eleanor Kellon, VMD wrote:
I'll be spending an hour looking at this question of inflammation and fat in equine IR.
Just to be clear, and especially for new folks ---

Dr. Kellon is talking about an hour at the 2017 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 27-29,2017 in beautiful Tucson, AZ.

Veterinary and hoof pro continuing ed credits available.

Early bird pricing of $250 expires 09.23.17

All speaker and lecture info, continuing ed info, conference registration and Hilton reservations can be found at www.nolaminitis.org

Thank you for the opportunity to get this commercial in one more time!
 
I am so looking forward to this and to seeing you all.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

 

Save the date! The ECIR Group Inc. NO Laminitis! Conference, October 27-29, Tucson, AZ

Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot
ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
ecirhorse.org



Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

 

I am near Santa Rosa California.  No problem to ship to Cornell.  You just have to get your vet to contact them and learn the ropes.

Gail Russell
Forestville CA
July 2009


Re: Electrolytes for "the move"

Jane Fletcher
 

I bought it in Australia from Gravel Proof Hoof, Pauline Moore. Hopefully should be available elsewhere!

Jane

Sent from my iPad

--
Jane, South East Western Australia
Nov 2016
Garnet and Bill


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Helen Temps
 

Karen, my Vet has sent to Cornell for me with no problem.  Have your Vet get the pre-paid overnight shipping labels from Cornell for $15.  There should not be any problem.  I am also in No. Cal.
--

Helen Temps and Chloe  June 2017
Placerville, CA
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Chloe.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6929


Re: Flax seed oil capsules

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

If you were to feed 2 oz of  ground flax that would be 28,400 x 2 = 56.800 mg and at about 30% fat it's 0.3 x 56,800 = 17,040 mg or 34 500 mg capsules.

I think you're referring to flax lignans, not lignin.

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/dietary-factors/phytochemicals/lignans

There are no lignans in the oil.
--
Eleanor in PA

 

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Yes, the Thyro-L could be contributing to sweating and spookiness.
--
Eleanor in PA

 

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Just as a P.S. here, weight loss *is* fat loss if you do it correctly. You don't need thyroid hormone to get weight loss.
--
Eleanor in PA

 

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I'll be spending an hour looking at this question of inflammation and fat in equine IR. Bottom line is that it is not the same as the human condition. There are contradictory studies, and ponies appear to be different from full size horses which do not show the clear evidence of inflammation found in people.
--
Eleanor in PA

 

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001


Re: Flax seed oil capsules

Maggie
 

Hi Stephanie,


Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you are right that "pure" flaxseed oil does not contain lignan.  The "high lignan" flaxseed oil has the lignan added back in after the oil is expelled.


But I think your math is off for the dosage--or my brain is still asleep.  Here's Jaini's "make your brain hurt" post on flaxseed and flaxseed oil:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/203051   The most important part for you to know is this sentence:  "Horses on pasture eat about 17 grams/day omega 3 (1,000 lb horse)".  


1 gram = 1000mgs, so if your capsules contain 500 mg, and you need 17 grams (17000 mgs) my math shows that you need 34 capsules (yikes!)  to equal 17 grams of omega 3.  I *think* you may have only multiplied the 17 grams by 100 = 1700 divided by 500 = 3.4 capsules, but PLEASE recheck my math!!


Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response


Re: Early Cushing's??

Lorna Cane
 

On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 09:22 pm, LM wrote:
I tried the links in the wiki I think and a few of them were broken.
LM, and Everyone,when you find broken links please can you let us know which ones,so that we can fix them?
 
--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002

 

 


Re: Mineral Balancing

Kristen Singh
 

Thank you, Maggie!
--


Kristen 06/10

AZ

Thor

Case History


Thor's Photos

 


Re: New IR Diagnosis

Kristen Singh
 

Thank you, Lavinia. You are a wealth of knowledge! I trimmed his toes back on Monday the 4th as close as I dare to the edge of the sole and left his sole, bars and heels completely alone. I have yet to post new hoof pictures. I would appreciate it if someone would critique the trim and I'll try to get pictures posted soon. Thanks again so much for your help.
--


Kristen 06/10

AZ

Thor

Case History


Thor's Photos

 


Flax seed oil capsules

Stepht
 

Has anyone tried flax seed oil capsules in their horses' ration?

My mare seems to be sensitive to the lignin in the flax seed itself, so I've used the oil. Since I board, I would like to make it easier to feed and thought capsules would work. 

I don't see on the labels that the oil in the capsules have lignin. Is it safe to assume this is true?

It looks like the dose would be 3-4 500 mg capsules for a 1000 lb horse. Is that correct?

Thanks!
--
Stephanie Thomson August 2, 2016

 

Liberty, Missouri

Katie Case History

Katie Photo Album  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6072

Katie Lab Values Folder  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stephanie%20and%20Katie 


Re: New IR Diagnosis

Kristen Singh
 

Thank you, Dr. Kellon. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts on this. I'm considering talking to my vet about shockwave therapy or HA injections without corticosteroids to help with the symptoms.
--


Kristen 06/10

AZ

Thor

Case History


Thor's Photos

 


Re: questions re: IR and Cushings

Karen Warne
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon,

i appreciate that explanation, as I am goal oriented so it's helpful to have a number that is a goal... I am managing his diet and life as tight as I can, to the point everything revolves around him.  Lol.  He is my horse, but more importantly, he is my therapist, so I will keep it up as he does look so much better... except for that worrisome sweating and his longer than normal coat - unless I bodyclip him, which I've done twice this summer.  

A question regarding the l-thyroxine:  If the L-Thyroxine is making him a little hyperthyroid, could that be contributing to his sweating?   Also, could it also make him a little more jumpyn shopping  than normal?  He almost never spooks, but recently I am noticing him worrying about things a little more when there is something new...

Given your suggestion for the ACTH, I think I will plan on the TRH Stim test in the spring ~(March) when I retest his insulin Nd glucose.  

Thank you and God bless this group for your amazing help with Luke!  As an aside, I've changed all my Amazon shopping to the smile.amazon.com with the ECIR group being the beneficiary of the donations.  What a great and easy way to support this group as you all help our horses...

--

Karen and Luke 

May 1 2017

Northern California

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Luke

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=5921

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