Date   

Re: horse professionals

layzdequineservices <layzd@...>
 

You are certainly valid in your feelings.  I am a hoof rehabilitation specialist, professional in my field for about 10 years.  Have take almost all of Kellons classes more than once and have been testing local hays for 5 years and balancing diets with great success.  Yet I am the local weirdo with most of the local vets and farriers.  Someone I trained with in hoof rehab told me "If you enter this field you will have a bullseye target on you back. Be prepared and do not waiver from your gut and what you believe to be right."  

It has been a hard road, but I have traveled it knowing there are other out there who practice the same principals and though we are not in the mainstream we are making a difference.  
--
Debora Lay
LayzD Equine Services LLC
Corvallis Montana 

Joined 2/7/12CIR 0113/0615, NRC+1112,  NAT, MPG 0911 and others


2nd attempt - Riosa's X-rays uploaded and trim suggestions requested

hdavis
 

Hello,
Hate to be a pain but hoping someone can help me with this as farrier is coming on Monday for our second trim.  
I have uploaded my new X-rays from my last vet visit.  Unfortunately he only did the Lateral views to check on how the realignment trim was going.  The vet stated she is now at 2 degree rotation on left front and 3% on right front. He was very happy with the way the trims are going and suggested a trim this week which I had to hook on Sept 25 due to scheduling.  He also stated she is growing some good sole.  Unfortunately we forgot to mark up the X-rays as I had another horse there as well and both were being examined and I forgot to mention how to mark the foot for X-rays :(. He does however put them up on a block of wood.

I would love some feedback as well as some suggestions for the next trim. Hoof photos are uploaded as well from Sept 5 - her last trim was Aug 18th. 

She is also moving around really well with no lameness.  She is in a stall/run for most of the day but let her out on the arena twice a day to wander around. Sometimes she is full of beans but so far has been sound after all these little episodes.  Would she be ok to start handwalking to burn off some of this excess energy if she is sound?

--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819&p=Name,,,20,1,20,0

--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

 


Re: Syringe Alkar and Pergolide together

 


Re: horse professionals

 

And the successes are sometimes absolutely astonishing.  My 25 year old horse, that has almost certainly been feeling like crap for ten or twelve years, looks like an absolute rock star after 10 months on 1 mg of Prascend, plus the addition of California Trace, Flax,, salt, and magnesium.  He is bright eyed, no curly hair on his legs at all, smooth, sleek coat.  Everyone is aghast at how good he looks, and yet he had clear laminitis last fall and winter before we started treating him.  He shines like a copper penny, like he did when he was eight..
--
Gail Russell 8/30/2008

 

Brother Case History


Re: horse professionals

hinecedark <hinecedark@...>
 

Hi Regina,
I feel your pain! Especially concerning farriers. Vets, on the other hand, have to learn so many species with so many different systems and so many different diseases and conditions that I am truly in awe of them. Yes, most are behind the curve concerning PPID and IR. But we . . . WE, thanks to this group, are on the cutting edge. Vet education hasn't caught up yet, but the good ones recognize success when they see it. Stick to your guns, you have a cheering section of thousands behind you. Your payoff will come as Smokey returns to health - enough payoff on its own. But, then, if you're lucky, you will find that your vet and farrier have learned some things from you! Which brings enough respect for your knowledge that they're happy to comply with your requests, as they want to see how long you can keep that horse healthy, doing things they are only just learning about!
No vet, no farrier, can do more for your horse than you can. Bribery (cookies) for the vet and farrier, or reminding them who pays the bills, whatever it takes. Keep your eye on the prize, do everything you're advised here, and Smokey will be your living proof that you weren't just "that crazy lady who wants us to do things different". 
What a sweet feeling while you're riding your happy horse! ;>)
Melinda
IN  2010
 


Is this a good time to test ATCH?

Peggy <dreammaker@...>
 

I've not been keeping up with everything on the posts. My mare was diagnosed a couple of years ago. She's on 2mg compounded perg right now. Having conversations with my vet who is suggesting that I wait until spring to test my mare. Am I right in thinking this IS a good time to test ACTH again to confirm or not that 2mg is enough to control her during the seasonal rise? I will need to get a case history on Jewel. Also want to post pics of her feet. Farrier comes Saturday morning. Will do my best to get before and after photos. She's not having any problems but I don't want her to have any either.
Thanks.
--
Peggy/Illinois
October 2004
PJ 29 yrs old laid to rest 8/31/17 Cushing's https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/PJ%20Case%20History.doc
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8821
Jewel 21 yrs old Cushing's


Forage Extender NSC Poulin response

 

Here is the response from Andrew at Poulin Grain in VT about their Forage Extender product. The chart is avail on their website. 

Leela
Heidie Cushings 1-16
List member 2010
NH


Good day, Leela!

 

Great to hear from you!

 

Attached is a chart with our starch and sugar levels for all our equine feeds.  Forage extender runs 9.8% starch and sugar – 3.2% sugar and 6.4% starch.  I am not sure where you got the 7%, can you share with me what brochure it came off of, please?

 

Thank you!

 

Andrew Beals


Re: horse professionals

 

oops,
Kim Lee with Malachi and Mateo 
NW PA
2010



On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 10:17 PM, Kim Lee Gillette <tkgillette@...> wrote:
Yes, Regina, I have.  It was the hardest and best thing I ever did was to fire the trimmer and learn to do it for myself and my horse.  It has taken a little while but well worth it.  Also the vet relationship is sadly going down hill too.  I called about the seasonal rise problem with my PPID/IR horse and they said they would get back to me and never did.  I made the decision to treat symptoms through the seasonal rise and already am seeing a great improvement in my horse.  We will go back to the regular dose after the rise and then try to get an appointment again of if need be find another vet.  But I was seriously upset when I called and told them how bad my horse was and they did not call me back.  I hope this feeling of being upset calms soon just in case I really need them.  It is so hard to find any other vets in our area.  I would hope they would have more concern for their patients (my horses).  Would love to have a Dr. Kellon student (vet) next door!

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 8:15 PM, regina bruno <rleb32@...> wrote:
i don't know if this is ok to bring up here, but has anyone else developed a true dread when it comes to farrier and vet appointments?  my farrier and vet's office and others are connected and i am getting the distinct impression that my approach of knowing what i want is only tolerated, even though i'm spending tons of money with these people.  I'm furious and frustrated.  i already have a job.  it's hard (though honestly interesting) to learn all of this stuff while paying people who should know it in the first place.  ugh....

Regina and Smokey
June 26, 2017
Laurelville,  Ohio

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Regina%20and%20Smokey  .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8316  .




Re: horse professionals

 

Yes, Regina, I have.  It was the hardest and best thing I ever did was to fire the trimmer and learn to do it for myself and my horse.  It has taken a little while but well worth it.  Also the vet relationship is sadly going down hill too.  I called about the seasonal rise problem with my PPID/IR horse and they said they would get back to me and never did.  I made the decision to treat symptoms through the seasonal rise and already am seeing a great improvement in my horse.  We will go back to the regular dose after the rise and then try to get an appointment again of if need be find another vet.  But I was seriously upset when I called and told them how bad my horse was and they did not call me back.  I hope this feeling of being upset calms soon just in case I really need them.  It is so hard to find any other vets in our area.  I would hope they would have more concern for their patients (my horses).  Would love to have a Dr. Kellon student (vet) next door!

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 8:15 PM, regina bruno <rleb32@...> wrote:
i don't know if this is ok to bring up here, but has anyone else developed a true dread when it comes to farrier and vet appointments?  my farrier and vet's office and others are connected and i am getting the distinct impression that my approach of knowing what i want is only tolerated, even though i'm spending tons of money with these people.  I'm furious and frustrated.  i already have a job.  it's hard (though honestly interesting) to learn all of this stuff while paying people who should know it in the first place.  ugh....

Regina and Smokey
June 26, 2017
Laurelville,  Ohio

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Regina%20and%20Smokey  .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8316  .



Starting pergolide before testing ACTH?

Cheryl V.
 

Hello all,
I asked my vet about starting my mare on pergolide right away and he brought up a good point.  That being if she's well controlled on the dosage given and then we test for ACTH won't that come back as a false negative? 

Another thing I asked him was if he'd be willing to write a script for compounded pergolide and he said that he won't do it... short of using a different vet what are my options?

CH was updated with a little info today, just added her weight from weight tape and added the link to her photo album which now has two photos in it.  One of her from May of this year where I thought she looked to be at a good weight and one from last month where she's showing the cresty neck and potbelly typical.  Her top line is also worse now than it was before.   Oh and you can see her eye tearing too.  Only change between two pics is access to pasture. 
--

Cheryl and Sahara
Lenhartsville, PA, USA
Sept 2017
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9672


Re: Selenium 2nd request

Kim Leitch
 

i apologize for not being clear in my questions about Selenium.
I want to know the following:
1. What is the purpose of selenium in the IR horses diet?
2. How much selenium does an IR horse need?
3. Since I am feeding three different horses different amounts of the same hay, they will each be getting differing amounts of selenium, because they will be getting different amounts of the minerals. The minerals are balanced to the hay, but it seems that selenium is given in a fixed amount. Do the horses getting less minerals need added selenium?
4. Why is Grits loosing mane and tail hair? If not selenium, what else could be causing this?
--
Kim 10-2014

Clover, SC

Grits IR, Eeyore PPID, Dually ???

Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Grits%20-%20Eeyore%20-%20Dually

Photo album Grits https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1314

Photo album Eeyore https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6586&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Dually https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9046&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0





Re: Prunes as Delivery Device

celestinefarm
 

The website for Champion Treats lists the analysis for the treats and states that the sugar content is 11.7% and the starch is 15.1% DM.  The website also states that the treats contain 1 Gm of starch..  In basing safety of feed, treats, etc. we look at percentage of S/S , not how many grams per feeding or treat.  So 27% S/S. 

Conversely , Equipocket treats have a total S/S of 6%.  https://beetebites.com/equipockets/

100 grams of prunes has 5.1% starch and 61 grams of total sugars, including fructose.  100 grams of prunes = 12 prunes.  Most members are not using 12 prunes a day.  ! prune has somewhere around 3.5 grams of carbohydrates.

Beverly, I use a gooey, molasses based treat(Nickerdoodles) for Tipperary because he ended up loathing everything else because they didn't hide his Prascend well enough. I am going to try Equipockets for my persnickety stud , but members need to understand that Nickerdoodles,  and other treats are not healthy treats, albeit they might be the last resort for med administration. To your point, it's a very small "dose" of S/S overall in the diet, but as Lavinia pointed out, could add up quickly if used throughout the day as rewards. And there are some extremely sensitive IR horses who might find them problematic in the long run.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History


Re: Ontario-Dehy Timothy Cubes/Triple Crown Timothy Balance

Alicia Harlov
 

I always assumed he was IR because he is an easy keeper, loses weight in winter and gains weight in summer....
--
- Alicia 

September 2017, Ipswich, Massachusetts

Vinnie's Case History
Vinnie's Pictures


Re: Ontario-Dehy Timothy Cubes/Triple Crown Timothy Balance

Alicia Harlov
 

I haven't gotten the bloodwork done and know I should. I've been trying my best financially for him, and most recently I did the Lyme titer in April when he was stiff for a few days; had him on stall rest for two days per vet Rec and then slowly reintroduced him to turn out (5++ acre full grass, ugh!) and he stayed sound and not sore surprisingly. I didn't even think the grass could be an issue until June, which is when I began looking for a new barn.

I moved him from that huge pasture barn to a new barn where his paddock is smaller (maybe an acre?) with grass/dirt/weeds, as for some reason dry lots in my area are hard to come by. I do wish I had my own property. I liked that the new barn did overnight turn out instead of daytime all summer long, but recently they switched back to daytime for fall. I've observed my gelding in the paddock for hours and he does not constantly eat, and hangs in the dirt//gravel area sleeping or grooming his paddockmates. 

The last week he seems to be much happier. His feet have never once been warm, no pulses whatsoever, but over the summer he did struggle on stones (okay on cement and hard ground). He now seems okay when walking over the stones near his paddock gate. 

Ideally I would love a grassless Paddock
Paradise type system for him but nothing like that near me. 

--
- Alicia 

September 2017, Ipswich, Massachusetts

Vinnie's Case History
Vinnie's Pictures


Re: Copper - Cabergoline and September tests - Dr. Kellon

Bonnie
 

 Copper's progress with cabergoline is of much interest to me. Dr. Kellon has mentioned cabergoline as a possible treatment for my IR/PPID pony. Could you possibly contact me privately to share your experience with making the change from pergolide? bon dot ivey at gmail dot com.Thank you.

Bonnie Ivey, Ontario, 12/08
Lad, IR,PPID


Re: Forage replacers? plus Jiaogulan?

Cheryl Hooper <cherylhooper1@...>
 

So nice to see you here, Alicia!!

I get them at Dodge's Agway in Hampton.  So far they still carry the Ontario Dehy TB cubes (lavender label)  - they brought them in for me 10+ years ago and they must have found a strong enough market to keep some in stock.  They DO deliver to MA (free delivery if you have 10 items, I think??) or you can just run up there and grab a bag :-)

Best,

--

Cheryl H. in MA

Jan. 2004

ECIR Moderator


horse professionals

regina bruno
 

i don't know if this is ok to bring up here, but has anyone else developed a true dread when it comes to farrier and vet appointments?  my farrier and vet's office and others are connected and i am getting the distinct impression that my approach of knowing what i want is only tolerated, even though i'm spending tons of money with these people.  I'm furious and frustrated.  i already have a job.  it's hard (though honestly interesting) to learn all of this stuff while paying people who should know it in the first place.  ugh....

Regina and Smokey
June 26, 2017
Laurelville,  Ohio

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Regina%20and%20Smokey  .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8316  .


Re: Prunes as Delivery Device

beverly meyer
 

There's only 1 gram of starch in a Champion Treat. Prunes have 5 grams. Champion's are extremely low-sugar: peanuts, sunflower seeds, flax, sugarless peppermint and a few oats (4 or 5).

I use the regular treat for dosing. They sell Pill Pockets too.

I cut open a treat, smaller than a golf ball, put the Pergolide inside and squish it back together. It's the easiest dose ever and my toothless pony has not gotten tired of them.

Beverly Texas 2014


Re: Selenium 2nd request

Lorna Cane
 

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 04:24 pm, Kim Leitch wrote:
My concern is not about the past, but the fact that Grits has lost so much of her mane and tail since being on balanced minerals with 2 mg of Se yeast. What is the purpose of so much Se for an IR horse?
--
Just to say that years ago I  had a Se toxicity problem, from a cocked up custom mineral mix.
The amount of Se that 5 of my then-9 horses were getting before mane/tail hair began falling out, garlic odour on breath, coronary band eruptions was in the neighbourhood of 100mg/day.They had no business living, but they did - although all 5 sloughed all their hooves.
Not taking 2 mg lightly at all, but just wanted to add my experience.
Blood tests did corroborate the clinical signs.Very expensive blood tests.
 
--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002

 

 


Re: Forage replacers? plus Jiaogulan?

Alicia Harlov
 

Cheryl, where do you get the ODTC on the North Shore? 

--
- Alicia 

September 2017, Ipswich, Massachusetts

Vinnie's Case History
Vinnie's Pictures

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