Date   

Re: Horse has all symptoms of IR but blood tests say normal

Dena Thompson
 

I'm not sure. I don't recall exactly what the veterinarian's stated and I no longer have the original paperwork I had a small office fire. I'm working on getting the replacements . I will  upload them as soon as I get them. He was quite surprised as well that it showed him negative on the IR.  Rio has had symptoms for years and I've had to figure this out myself so grateful to be here thank you I will try to get those papers ASAP.
--
DENA
10/2017
NORTHERN ILLINOIS
CASE HISTORY  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dena%20&%20Rio

.


Re: Questions

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Alison,

No, it's not the norm for laminitic horses to go pigeon toed. That is likely a trim issue so hoof pix would be very helpful.
--
Lavinia and George Too

Dante, Peanut, Nappi and George over the Bridge

Jan 05, RI

ECIR Support Team


Questions

Alison McLean <alisonl.mclean@...>
 

Hello again,

I just have a few questions, I am still working on Cenizas's case history, her bloodwork does not show anything on leptons, don't know if doc just asked lab for what she thought was enough or what.  I used LJ advice on the farriers formula and got some biotin powder instead. Also picked up some balance timothy hay cubes, luckily there is one feed store not to far from me that sells it. Going to use them instead of timothy hay pellets to mix supplements and to not have to soak so much hay, by the way, I was letting the dirty water from hay drain into my bushes and it killed them! Scary!  I also need to know if doing all this and using Arizona copper complete from Horse Tech is enough to balance her diet?  I would also like opinions on the best boots and pads for her feet if possible.  I read on one of your messages that icing a metabolic laminitc horse doesn't work?   I have soft ride boots with pads, helps some, but they keep on twisting and she has been turning pigeon toed also, going to get some pics of her feet soon. is it normal for laminitic horses to go pigeon toed?
I'm sorry for all the questions but I think if I was more informed it would be extremely helpful.

Alison, Queen Creek, AZ 2014  Ceniza, Sassy and sox


Re: Testing new Case History Link

Maxine McArthur
 


Attn. Dr. Kellon Recent blood work gives low numbers

Kathy Thomas
 

My mare, Donna, was tested 2 weeks ago, and I have just received the following numbers:
Glucose: 3.0      (3.3-7.5 mmol\L)
Insulin:  4.4         ( 4.5-20 Uul/ml)
ACTH    6.8         (2-10 pmol/L)
Still waiting on the leptin.
Should I be concerned?  I was expecting higher numbers with the seasonal rise.  Also, her right eye is a bit weepy, and she has become a bit jumpy in the arena and reacts to outside noises.  Thank you in advance.
--
Kathy 2017 and Donna

 

Harrowsmith, Ontario

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathy%20and%20Donna


Testing new Case History Link

M.D. Stephenson
 

I was informed that my case history link was not working.
The link below is supposed to be corrected.
Please let me know if my attempts to fix the link have been effective.

Thank you.
--
Mary Stephenson.   May 2,2017  Fairfield CT

 Horse:  Booker
Case History   
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mary%20and%20Booker

Photo Album
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6366


 


Re: Treating Melanomas with Cannabis Oil -

larockj@...
 

This could have saved my beloved Deputy David, who was euthanized last year.

And yes, he was a dapple grey.

Thank you, Jackie.
--
Jessica - July 2015
New York

Mimi - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20and%20Mimi

Photos - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1874
 


Re: Comments needed for upcoming hoof trim

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Saw that Sue. I'll put something up later tonight.
--
Lavinia and George Too

Dante, Peanut, Nappi and George over the Bridge

Jan 05, RI

ECIR Support Team


Re: Request for trim evaluation

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Cindy,

Of course it's OK to ask questions.

They mean the same thing - different words that people have used to refer to the same process. Leave the majority of the heel buttress alone as it is usually the highest point on the back of the foot and you want it to stay that way. Yes, at the very back edge of it, round it toward the heel bulbs so it isn't a sharp edge. If the under run heel area is steeper, you can extend the length of that rounding a bit more towards the back. Check out this picture for an idea of the area I mean:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/photo/9625/1?p=Name,,,20,1,0,0

 --
Lavinia and George Too

Dante, Peanut, Nappi and George over the Bridge

Jan 05, RI

ECIR Support Team


Re: Request for trim evaluation

Cindy Q
 

Hi Lavinia

I hope it's ok that I ask some qns here because you used a lot of terms I've been wondering about. 

"In order to move the heels back, you end up losing vertical height as an unavoidable consequence. If the sole depth in the heel area is already too thin then you cannot move them back without further compromising the already thin soles. You don't want to make an already existing issue worse in order to make another problem better. With the heels, you leave them where they are but add a bevel/ramp/rocker to the back of them to help ease the landing so the forces are less concentrated on jamming the heels forward. Back the toes to where they are supposed to be to control another of the forces that are dragging them forward. If there is more than adequate sole depth present, then there is available vertical height to work with and the heels can moved rearward because the loss of height is both acceptable and necessary. "

1) What's the difference beween bevel, ramp and rocker? I think bevel is a bit more angled like on a lateral view of the left fore, with the horse facing to my left, bevel would be \ on the edge of the toe? Ramp I keep seeing but I don't understand. Rocker toe to me is like a rolled toe?
2) I mention the toe above coz I see a lot of long toes which I understand also contributes to underrun heels. But how would you apply bevel, ramp and rocker to the heel? I thought the heels should generally be left alone if they are underrun and just concentrate on backing the toe. If the heels are already low and at an angle closer to the ground than ideal, how to take some off. Or is is it just to round the pointy edge where the heel contacts the ground so that at least it won't be growing and pushing/stretching further forward (similar to why we roll the toe for a long toe)?

Thanks v much in advance
--
Cindy - Sep 2017, Singapore


Re: Comments needed for upcoming hoof trim

Sue Hansen
 

Dawn's new hoof photos are in her photo album.  Thank you for your help.
--
Sue H.
June 2017. Markle, IN USA
Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sue%20and%20Dawn  .
Dawn's photo album  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9764


Re: RIO & DENA NEW HERE

 

The constant hunger thing is a feature of insulin-resistant and leptin-resistant horses, but it does decrease as the diet gets tightened and balanced; exercise will also help reduce insulin levels.  What I can't tell you is how long this will take, as each horse is different, and some stay as ever-hungry gannets forever.  My crew took about 3 or 4 years of controlled feeding to lose that excessive hunger, but it did happen. 
--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


Re: vet refusing to call in pergolide says its illegal

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Just a reminder that we have a policy of not using the names of professionals - barn owners, vets, farriers/trimmers, etc - when you have a dispute.  If a list member  close to you has asked a question, etc. please respond privately.
--
Eleanor in PA

 

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001


Re: 'Tis the Season Course Sale

Stacey Odlum
 

Is your new course for graduates of NRC plus included? 

Stacey Odlum in France
NCR + 2016

Stacey Odlum - ADAEP
Diplomée de l'Institute of Applied Equine Podiatry
(33) 0687550269

On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Eleanor Kellon, VMD <drkellon@...> wrote:
From now through January 15, all courses at www.drkellon.com, including NRC Plus the balancing course and Cushing's and Insulin Resistance, are buy one, get one free.
--
Eleanor in PA

 

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001



Re: 'Tis the Season Course Sale

Jen Lookingland
 

How does this sale work? I just tried to sign up for the IR course and didn’t see where it was buy one get one. And is this buy one get one only apply to the same course? Thank you! 


Re: Welcome to Jae and Molly

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Jae,

Isoxsuprine has been shown to be very poorly absorbed in horses when dosed orally so it is questionable whether it is doing Molly any good or not.

For cold-induced laminitis, the AAKG+Jherb combination has worked extremely well - just start it before you have any foot pain. The cold induced pain is possible any time the temps drop into the 40's or lower. You need to have the trim optimal and the diet tight as well.
--
Lavinia and George Too

Dante, Peanut, Nappi and George over the Bridge

Jan 05, RI

ECIR Support Team


Re: Horse has all symptoms of IR but blood tests say normal

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

What were his insulin levels?
--
Eleanor in PA

 

www.drkellon.com 

EC Owner 2001


Treating Melanomas with Cannabis Oil -

 

Dear Group:
I know this is off topic, but wanted to share it widely to reach any who own a horse that has melanomas.  My Tori has masses of tumors that were blocking her rectum a year ago without a useful treatment.  
This video is a photographic case study on treating equine melanomas with Cannabis Oil, based on a year long treatment of my 16 year old Paso Fino mare, Tori.
In August 2016, Tori had so many tumors on her anus and in her rectum that she could only pass single balls of manure and was in pain as she did so and the black tar oozing from those tumors coated her silver tail and legs black. The vet could not get her hand in to do a rectal exam. If the situation continued to deteriorate, the vet recommended that I put her down.
I started daily washing her perineum, drying it and applying a coat of Cannabis Oil to the surface of the skin. The video shows monthly photos taken of the tumors as I applied daily cannabis oil to the surface of her anus. The photos clearly show that the tumors reduced in number and size over the time cannabis was used and Tori went from being very sensitive to the area being touched to tolerating treatment at liberty. In the last month I started giving her 2 to 3 cc’s of Cannabis Oil orally by syringe when it appeared that lesions were starting to develop again and those lesions disappeared within days.
One year later, in August 2017, the vet was able to get her hand in to do a rectal exam because the size of the internal tumors had shrunk and Tori was passing full rectum’s of manure without discomfort.
It is my hope that large animal veterinary colleges will view this video and undertake research to determine which strains of cannabis and what characteristics of THD and CBD at what dosages are most effective at treating equine melanomas. 

If you have questions about Tori's treatment or want copies of these photos, please contact me at jackieadecker@... or 541-826-8400. If you can think of someplace else I should share this video, please let me know or feel free to share it yourself.


Re: Request for trim evaluation

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Marian,

You are correct that underrun heels are a widespread problem - not only for Lupin but for a great many horses.

In order to move the heels back, you end up losing vertical height as an unavoidable consequence. If the sole depth in the heel area is already too thin then you cannot move them back without further compromising the already thin soles. You don't want to make an already existing issue worse in order to make another problem better. With the heels, you leave them where they are but add a bevel/ramp/rocker to the back of them to help ease the landing so the forces are less concentrated on jamming the heels forward. Back the toes to where they are supposed to be to control another of the forces that are dragging them forward. If there is more than adequate sole depth present, then there is available vertical height to work with and the heels can moved rearward because the loss of height is both acceptable and necessary.

Contrary to what many hoof pros seem to believe, it isn't necessary to remove the same amount of material from every part of the foot any time it is trimmed. You only want to remove what is overgrown/damaged or what is physiologically not aligned with the location of the bony column within. You cannot realign the hoof capsule to the bony column within if you always follow the preexisting angles because then you will always get the same result. Have a read here for more info:

 http://www.hoofrehab.com/Coronet.html

http://www.hoofrehab.com/DistalDescent.htm

http://www.hoofrehab.com/HorsesSole.html

Right now, Lupin has no option but to generally stand with the high foot back and the low foot forward - which reinforces the pathology. Same goes with the medially high walls and the pigeon-toed stance. Both situations are a vicious circle and the only way to break it is to get the trim corrected. Even if his trim cycle was shorter (which it needs to be), the situation wouldn't really change much as the trim itself is not mechanically correct.

The poor mechanics of his trim are contributing to the poor hoof quality and his tenderness. If he is being worked, then the boots would need to be ones that are designed for riding rather than the therapy types. Therapy boots have thicker pads and a looser fit to accommodate hooves in rehab. Working boot styles are more tightly fitted, have less room for padding and are designed for feet that already have a correct trim in place.

Therapy boots would be something like the Easyboot Clouds or the Soft Rides. Both have thick, supportive cushions that help to enhance the hooves' internal mechanics while still providing a lot of protection from ground contact. Both come with pads that are wedge shaped so would need to have the pads shaved down to be flat in the RF but left with at least a bit of wedge in the LF until Lupin's trim has gotten his heels supporting him more fully on the non-clubby foot.

Working boots like the Easycare Glove have limited room for padding so may or may not be able to provide enough cushioning to allow Lupin to stride out comfortably and correctly. They can be heat fitted to accommodate a foot in rehab so that they won't twist while in use. Any boot you use should have an extensive bevelr added to both the toes and heels to ease the breakover in all directions. Have a look here for more in-depth discussion:

http://www.hoofrehab.com/BootArticle.htm

http://www.hoofrehab.com/Glove%20Mods.pdf

Any of these boots can be worn full time as needed but will require that they be removed daily to allow for cleaning/airing/drying of both the feet and the boots. Liberally coating Lupin's soles with anti-fungal foot powder (like Gold Bond or generic) each time the boots get put back on will help control any greeblies that try to take up residence. Getting the diet tightly balanced will also help enormously.

--
Lavinia and George Too

Dante, Peanut, Nappi and George over the Bridge

Jan 05, RI

ECIR Support Team


Re: Welcome to Jae and Molly

Jae
 

Thank you again Maggie for all of your links and information! I am so grateful!
Yes I have already read Dr Kellon’s article about cold induced laminitis. I had never heard of it before it happened to Molly last January 2017. I had no idea I could be putting Molly at risk by allowing her outside when we had a long cold spell of below freezing temperatures where the ground was frozen solid for at least 2 weeks. It was the worst bout of laminitis or foot pain that Molly had ever had and lasted  about 3 weeks. I had our vet do cold laser therapy about 3 times, which I think helped. But now I know about the boots, and socks. I also purchased a heated water bucket for inside Molly’s stall so she does not have to go outside to get her water from the heated water tank. Hopefully I can prevent it this year.
I am not sure about the AAKG & Jherb right now since they are vasodilators and I am already giving Molly 30 (20 mg) tabs per day of Isoxsuprine, which is also a vasodilator. Are they better than Isoxsuprine, or at least as good as? It is very labor intensive grinding those 30 pills per day.
I think I will skip the beet pulp; thanks for explaining that I don’t have to feed it; it is on the emergency diet instructions so I thought I needed to.  I do not like all that soaking & Molly does not enjoy it. I am looking forward to the TC Timothy balance cubes coming in; they are on order.
I asked Dr Reilly specifically about the amount of Magnesium Oxide in one scoop of HEIRO, and he said 62 mg per scoop. Sounds like even less than 3 grams. I will look for the Vitamin E capsules with oil. 
Yes I am working on hoof photos; took a few this week when the farrier was here. He is willing to work with me on your suggestions. I just have to find time to upload them & may have to retake some of them.

Thank you again for all of the advice!

Jae & Molly (IR/PPID?)
Hillsboro, Oregon
August 2017




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