Date   

Re: Crypto Aero?

LJ Friedman
 

When I see the name Crypto in CA, I think of cryptosporidium,  lol.
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014  San Diego, CA

 

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=2117 

.https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/LJ%20and%20Jesse


Re: Effect of temperature on Pergolide potency

Kathy Thomas
 

Now I am worried.  My Prascend is stored in a cooler type container in the feed room at my boarding stable.
The feed room is not heated.  It has been below 0 F. here for a week.
Should I be worried?
 
Kathy and Donna 2017

--
Kathy 2017 and Donna

 

Harrowsmith, Ontario

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathy%20and%20Donna


Mouth sarcoid and is it the same as mouth ulcers

Phoebejane10@...
 

So I saw among the list of cushings “symptoms “ mouth ulcers . Is that the same thing as a sarcoid on the corner of a lip? Outside the mouth , but close to the lip so it interferes with the outer edge of a bit rubbing ? It is mostly gone now (vet prescribed blood root topical back in April of last year and that basically did the trick , although that area is still calloused and I tend to ride in a bit less most days). Just curious if it’s the same thing /related to cushings, or just bad luck ?! 
MJ Connecticut new member https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Ella%20Zanolli


Re: Spiritt's latest diagnosis

Eva
 

Hi Virginia,

I am up here in Corvallis near OSU.  I know and use some of the vets there and use there lab.  If you end up coming up here for a second opinion I'd be happy to provide moral support in person or thru the group.  So sorry you are going thru this!  I'm sure someone here will have some ideas!
--
Eva and Anske
October 2017 Corvallis OR
Case History Anske 9yo Friesian Mare https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Eva%20and%20Anske


Re: questions regarding suspensory ligament damage and pain

 

Sherry, it is so hard to watch. She can't have either hind hoof picked up, today, the day after the trim, with just rasping the two hinds, she was walking very slowly and dragging her toes when she brought them forward. I just don't know what else to do. I gave her Equioxx tonight to see if a few doses of that might make her feel better. 
--
Mary and Halo and Wellon

West Fargo, ND, USA

Joined spring 2016

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mary%20and%20Halo

 


Spiritt's latest diagnosis

V F
 

Hi Group,

Well, Spiritt is still with us, but with worsening symptoms. She developed a hard swelling under her jaw in a lymph gland, about the size of 1½ golf ball, so we had a sample taken by our vet & he sent it off to OSU 's Vet Diagnostic Lab. Again the neutrophils were high ( I still don't have a number) and diagnosed it as "mild suppurative lymphadenitis",  This is a soft tissue infection (still not identified), which they think is bacterial. See the diagnosis, case summary, histopathology & recommendation in her updated case history. None of the sample was cultured. None of the vets or techs thought she had "cushings" because her coat is so slick & shiny. She's on 3mg compounded pergolide anyway due to her last ACTH check.

The vet & OSU did not want to run an SAA test at the time. Now my vet is considering it & he's ordered the kit so he can do it in his own lab. Would this still be worth pursuing? We are over the seasonal rise now, and I was hoping this was associated somehow & would improve, but it hasn't.

Her tongue has also thickened more (both vet & tech noticed this) her lips & lower face seem swelled slightly to me. No one has ever seen anything like it.  Anyway, she is having great difficulty eating & swallowing. What seems to help her a little is  J-herb & APF - she seems more alert & engaged with the APF. Her attitude is pretty good, although she's always been very reserved. Lately, she has taken a couple of kicks at John when he's blanketing/unblanketing her, as if she forgets he's there if he doesn't keep talking. This from a horse I've never seen kick at anything before, so it's definitely affecting her personality.

My vet recommends 25g Sodium iodide IV for 3 - 5 days. He will set it up & I will have her here at home to monitor. Does this seem like a reasonable thing to do or am I only prolonging the misery? This may be the last thing we try before we have to make a final decision.  Tentatively have schedule the 5 daily appointments for this coming Monday for the SI treatment, subject to cancellation by early am Monday.

If we do this, should I change her diet any - like withholding any Iodine supplementation? J-herb or APF?

The signs I was told to watch for indicating iodine toxicity was drooling, eyes watering, Anything else to be watching for?

Thanks for everyone's help & good wishes in the past.
--
Virginia F in South Central Oregon
ECIR 2010
Jasuur and Spiritt case history and bloodwork folder:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/VirginiaF%20and%20Jasuur
Spiritt's X-ray and photo folder: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9676


CH upkeep

 

I am updating Khari's case history and have a question regarding "housekeeping".  Does everything stay forever?  In particular, I wonder if I should be deleting the list of pellets and treats I have tried since last spring (to get the Prascend in) but are no longer giving. Also, the amounts and types of exercise as that has evolved through Khari's lameness issues.  It seems a bit messy but I don't want to remove anything that should be there.

I received very good news from Cornell, though I'm slightly afraid to believe it.  Khari's ACTH came back high normal (36.4).  His GI ratio is improved a bit though still IR (2.6)  I'm slightly concerned because the draw date was December 11 but the received by Cornell date was December 13.  The vet assured me he was familiar with the requirements and would chill, spin and expedite shipping on ice...so not sure why they didn't have it on December 12.  If it was shipped on ice, would the sample still be ok?  I will be speaking with the vet again on Monday and see what he has to say but meanwhile, I'm wondering if I can believe the lower ACTH.  The ACTH was 106 in April when he began the Prascend and 98 in July so I bumped him to 1.5 mg and this is the first test since then.  Could the declining sesonal rise make that big a difference when he was so high in April? His symptoms are better though not entirely gone...

Jill, Khari & Jetty in Idaho

NRC  2010
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jill%20and%20Khari 












--
Jill, Khari & Jetty in Idaho

 

NRC 2010

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jill%20and%20Khari 

 


Re: Crypto Aero?

 

CryptoAero has been banned from the list. However, Anna Frensmeyer pinched a bunch of emails while she was on here, and is now (and has been for a while) sending private messages and promotional information about the feed to members.  Every time there is another wave of private emails, and we are alerted to it, we just give a little blurb to alert  members who may be unaware of just how bad this feed really is for PPID and IR horses.
--

Jaini Clougher (BSc,BVSc)

Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy, Ranger

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy

 

 


Re: questions regarding suspensory ligament damage and pain

Helen Temps
 

I had the same experience as Sherry with my Peruvian Paso that had DSLD.  That was about 20 years ago when not much was known about the disease.  In reading though, sadly, it doesn't look like the ultimate outcome is much different now
--

Helen Temps and Chloe  June 2017
Placerville, CA
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Chloe.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6929


Re: Crypto Aero?

Cindy Galloway
 

Can Crypto Aero posts just be blocked?  If it is indeed detrimental to the mission statement of this process than why can we not remove the ability for the product to be promoted here?

--
Cindy Galloway

Cindy Galloway - Artist
P.O. Box 261
Wasco, Illinois 60175

(630) 777-4045


Re: Hay quality

 

Cheryl,
Another hay analysis option that is very affordable is to do single tests. For $21 you can have the ESC and Starch tested for a particular hay. That is both tests for $21. The tests are done using the wet chemical process. These two tests are the critical ones for those of use with IR horses or suspected IR horses. And you do not HAVE to use a hay probe to collect your hay sample. A probe is ideal for sampling but you can collect a hay sample manually. Equi-analytical will also send you shipping envelopes and forms at no cost. 
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: Hay quality

Cheryl V.
 

http://equi-analytical.com/interactive-common-feed-profile/
That's the site I found the data.. I just selected grass hay but now that I look at it there's no specification of what area the hay comes from... so I guess it's irrelevant now... *sigh*

I'll be taking photos of Sahara's feet tomorrow assuming the weather cooperates.   The boots I have for her are my trimmers old trail riding boots and so I was going to see if they even fit first but I do have some of that anti-fatique matting as well... I'm not so sure she needs any insulation though given the amount of hair she has on her legs.. her feet aren't hot but they're not cold either... I have to use leg wraps on my Paint mare in the winter tho since she has tb feet and legs.. I do have polo wraps if needed too and I have some old wool socks that I can use for the old girl if she needs it.

Soaking her hay isn't going to work for her either because she'd rather not eat than eat wet hay... I swear they do things like this to frustrate us!  But I'd rather risk the possibility of not soaking than her not eating... she also doesn't get any concentrated feed at all right now.. just the Timothy hay and then the ODTBC with the vit e and ground flax.. there's a mineral tub that I use for all three to get loose salt since most horses don't get enough from licking a block.. I have one of those for them as well... once I have some money to pay off the vet I'll be talking to them about xrays... my trimmer requested those and I'll ask about pergolide at that time... I've already ordered and paid for the ctb, jherb and alcar though so I'll use that up first.  I have them all on their sacrificial pasture for the winter months and there's no grass left since they've eaten it all down to the roots... no chance of grass there.  I don't really have a dry lot but once we get the wood that was donated to us we're going to be moving her to a smaller area that is dirt and is supposed to be the driving area in front of the barns but she was in there last spring when we were dealing with abscesses.  We'll be putting in a stall for her in there with a sand base so that'll help too.   Lots of fun!


--

Cheryl and Sahara
Lenhartsville, PA, USA
Sept 2017
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9672


Re: Cushings behavior changes after diagnosis and meds?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Hi Mj,

Reason I asked is that a normal insulin response to a grain meal is in the neighborhood of 40 uIU. It's not too much of a stretch to imagine a 26 with a gut full of grass with the highest sugar of the day plus RB plus oat flour. Her new labs will tell more.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
2 for 1 course sale 2018 is on
EC Owner 2001


Re: Crypto Aero?

Lorna Cane
 

On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 11:24 am, Rebecca Mandeville wrote:
I've had five vets now tell me he would have been dead long ago if I were not his owner, because very few owners they have encountered would do for him what I have done (specifically, rearranged my entire life and my career so that I can soak his hay as needed, and to be at the barn at least 2 times a day to give him exemplary care on every level).
Welcome, Rebecca,

Such a good point.

I *think* that often vets, some vets, have had enough  clients who either won't do what is needed, or will take a stab at it, and then give up - having put the horse through something from which he could have recovered , had his human only had the resolve to get the job done.
My theory is that this is why many vets we hear about here are so pessimistic about these compromised horses,and don't even 'go there' with their clients.
They need to - umm -  get to know the people on this forum a bit better !

--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/PPID%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories/Success%20Story%20%233%20-%20Lorna%20and%20Ollies%20Story.pdf

 


Re: Effect of temperature on Pergolide potency

 

I wonder how it can be practical to store compounded pergolide if it has to be below 77 and not refrigerated?  In the summer,  short of crawling under my house, I do not have those conditions anywhere.

Gail Russell
Forestville CA 2008

--
Gail Russell 8/30/2008

 

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Gail%20and%20Brother%20-%20Odin%20-%20Decaffe%20%20-Gunthar .


Re: Crypto Aero?

Rebecca Constance
 

I have read with great interest this entire thread. As a former University Professor, I am scratching my head in wonderment and confusion as I read Anna's posts. For me, it is very simple: Would Anna's data, statements, assertions, and conclusions be accepted into a peer-reviewed journal for publication? Answer: Absolutely not, and the rejection letter from the Publishers would reflect many of the statements made by the various respondents, above. I find it very disturbing and also irresponsible that she is promoting her product on this site in such an evangelical and aggressive manner. I get the sense that she has an axe to grind with Dr Kellon, and it is not an attractive thing to witness. I do not need hard data from a journal to tell me what I know experientially after several heartbreaking years of trying to help heal my severely metabolically compromised horse (IR and Cushings diagnosed since age 13, pre-disposed genetically to it): His total ESC plus starch cannot go above 10% or he will eventually become laminitic. Period. I have plenty of evidence to support this, and I admit that I was in denial about this for some time, thinking that when this happened or that happened or that other thing happened he would be more like a 'normal' horse. I learned the hard way that this just is not so, and, that there is no magical 'cure' for a horse as severely metabolically compromised as mine. I've had five vets now tell me he would have been dead long ago if I were not his owner, because very few owners they have encountered would do for him what I have done (specifically, rearranged my entire life and my career so that I can soak his hay as needed, and to be at the barn at least 2 times a day to give him exemplary care on every level). What ultimately helped him is when I began to follow to the letter every recommendation made in this ecir group, with no shortcuts and no exceptions. Balancing his minerals made a huge difference, and really seemed to put him over the hump. BTW, I would never trust anyone's product if the person who is promoting it recommends Himalayan salt blocks. It saddens me to think that there are vulnerable horse owners out there who might believe all of these unsupported statements of Anna's and all the hype around her product, with possible disastrous results. One can only hope that she will tire of sparring with knowledgeable and well-informed members and facilitators here, stop tilting at windmills, and cease insisting her product will cure Cushings and IR horses.


Re: Effect of temperature on Pergolide potency

Eva
 

tab/cap vs liquid storage - I apologize - above I was talking about storage of solid forms of pergolide (compounded tab/caps) and not the liquid.  Liquid compounded pergolide storage in the refridgerator is optimal.  

:)
--
Eva and Anske
October 2017 Corvallis OR
Case History Anske 9yo Friesian Mare https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Eva%20and%20Anske


Re: Effect of temperature on Pergolide potency

Eva
 

I am a pharmacist in Oregon and I have done a bit of compounding in my career

Storage conditions:  
You MUST store the product under optimal conditions to have the best chance at a long shelf life.  Under 77F (25C), not refrigerated, in the dark (box, bag, closet).  There is no way to know how much drug degredation will occur from short excursions to freezing or heat or humidity because the studies have not been done.  

Heat: Generally the heat is a far more damaging situation and should be avoided.  You may consider keeping only a few days of product in the barn if temps are above 77F.

Freezing: The frozen base (as Jaini noted above) which is used for compounding has a different composition and therefore different storage requirements vs the final compounded or commercial product.  The Pracend manufacturer may have more information about freezing vs room temp but because they do not volunteer that information on the drug detaiI assume they did not actually study freezing and cannot make a claim either way.  I suspect small excursions to freezing is not a big deal - but that is only my gut instinct. 

Product Quality:
Your pharmacy should be able to provide you with accurate quality control showing that there product is stable for the duration of the dating they put on the label for storage under "preferred" conditions.  If they cannot provide this information then you you may want to have a fresh batch made and only purchase 30 days worth.  (as a group if many members are using just a few pharmacies we may be able to encourage them to begin to test if they are not already)

Because this study (https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/aaa8/770cc48982e0d30c74d0c6a72953a6d06cb8.pdf )did not detail the formulations or compounding conditions its difficult make a strong correlation to the products being compounded today other than it is possible to have a good quality product for up to 90 days but many seem to loose potency after 30-45d.  

A pharmacy which does not test will likely put a 30 day expiration based on historical studies which they should be able to provide copies.  I did find some pharmacy journal articles however the full text is not available online.  I'll see if I can access them another way.

Common formulas used today - please note: one liquid formula uses a sugar base which I would assume would not be preferred for most PPID horses  https://compoundingtoday.com/Formulation/SearchByKeyword.cfm

--
Eva and Anske
October 2017 Corvallis OR
Case History Anske 9yo Friesian Mare https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Eva%20and%20Anske


Re: Cushings behavior changes after diagnosis and meds?

Phoebejane10@...
 

Oh- what had Ella eaten in July prior to blood being drawn - hmmmm. Hay and grass. We do night turnout in summer and so they often eat very early before turnout  so I don’t remember if she had her grain /supplements within 4 hrs of it . I remember the vet was there around 830 pm and I’m sure she had grass but the rest is unknown 😕


Re: Cushings behavior changes after diagnosis and meds?

Phoebejane10@...
 

Ella’s diet in July when blood drawn was grass and more grass - out about 14 hrs day on lush grass with no muzzle !! Hay at night  1/4 cup rice Bran , 1/2 cup alfalfa twice a day with supplements (magnesium, vit/mineral supplement, Mogels magic supplement, probiotic). 
Retrospect I should have known better re the grazing and tried to troubleshoot but she had lived there over 3 years , always same turnout situation And never an issue. 

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