Date   

Trh stim/leptin test

Stephanie Emery
 

I uploaded Travelers new blood results in his album today. My vet said it confirmed today that he was PPID which previous test had only showed pre-cushings. I got some Prascend tablets from her but wanted to hear your thoughts before I started him on them. I also just wormed him for tapeworms today and did not want to overload him with changes. He has been bright, sound and playing with his paddock mate. No boots for 3 weeks.    On another note, I updated my history for my file, but could not delete the old one to replace it.  Can someone help me with that?
--
Rhillranch Stephanie                Traveler Jan 2018 Harvard IL. Usa    Tucker,Wilson,BlackJack,Cruiser  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stephanie%20and%20Traveler.            https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=22149


Re: Opinion on RIght front please

Kath Chase
 


-Add on from previous email to Dr. Kellon, appologise I meant rub mark from boot was on medial side of heel in feb 4 photo  not lateral as stated in email. Think I need another coffee was up late last night with Micky. And up early this morning lack of sleep. -
Kath Chase & Micky
Yinnar Vic Australia
July 2017


https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9614&p=pcreated,,,https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mickys%20case%20history%20%20ECIR%202.doc


Re: Mad Barn AminoTrace+

Kelly Daughtry
 

okay so don't I feel stupid.  I suppose you can't give her too much beat pulp... gotta find something else to mix her supplements in besides the cubes. Kelly & Micah, Clayton NC

April 2016

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20%20Micah 

Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1829  .

 


Re: Help save our pony

Lorna Cane
 

I've made the link clickable.
But both CH files say there's a corrupted table.
That's the extent of my abilities, I'm afraid.

--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/PPID%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories/Success%20Story%20%233%20-%20Lorna%20and%20Ollies%20Story.pdf

 


Re: Opinion on RIght front please

Kath Chase
 

I feel there is more abscess in there that needs to come out Dr. Kellon  I have put up 2 more photos in my album if you could have a look please.

The  areas that I’m concerned about are circled. I have also written in description in album could you show us which areas need to be dealt with please

in Mickys case I’m concerned about over soaking that fragile foot as he sole is so thin, usually when I’m drawing abscesses with other horses I use Epsom salts or apple cider vinegar with water to soak or poultice 

I have always suspected an abscess and have and have been watching that foot closely for abscessing over the past 12 months but nothing has ever come out. That I had noticed until last Tuesday when the RF was damp and I cleaned it up before trim was done I just assumed sweat from hot weather also it is very difficult to get a really good as Micky can’t hold his right foot up for long has trouble bearing weight on LF 

Micky had new clouds smaller size 1s put on on the 3 February 2018 Frances felt the size 2s were 2 big, she wanted to improve break over if you look at February 4 pic there’s a rub mark on the lateral heel bulb I assumed that was the new boot  rubbing the heel bulb before trim   the new boot was then put on after trim fitted well.  Could that be where you mean the abscess has come out. 

Could you you please advise which way is best for Micky dry poultice or wet poultice also should Micky be on a course of antibiotics  doxycycline? What do recommend.

I have fwded all emails to trimmer  thin soles Lavinia recommendations. 


Thanks again 


--
Kath Chase & Micky
Yinnar Vic Australia
July 2017


https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9614&p=pcreated,,,https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mickys%20case%20history%20%20ECIR%202.doc


Re: Newly diagnosed IR with laminitis and founder

Maggie
 

Hi "jdmaldovan1"

Welcome to the group!  I'm sorry to hear that you and Rain are going through this.  You have come to the right place for advice and support.  Many, many of us have been where you are now and have come out on the other side with a healthy, happy horse! The best thing you can do for Rain right now is to start her on the emergency diet (details below) and then when you get a chance to breathe, fill out a case history on Rain to provide us with more details so we can help you better.  Read the below synopsis of our philosophy and get back to us with any further questions you have.  If you need help filling out a case history, please don't hesitate to ask!  

The ECIR provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

In order to help you and your equine quickly and effectively, we need you to explain your equine's situation by following the instructions you were sent upon joining. Your completed case history form and ECIR Signature will save days of back and forth questions. If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. Follow the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up and then upload your case history. If you have any trouble, just post a message or email the case history group explaining specifically where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin, glucose and Leptin. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating". Knowing this helps to differentiate if a horse is IR "at baseline" or if an elevated ACTH is "driving" the insulin up. In Europe, substitute adiponectin for the leptin test.

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: IR is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine. If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for IR/PPID individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to IR/PPID equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

 

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

 

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

We ask all members to sign their first name, general location, date of joining and link to the case history and photo album every time they post. It helps us to find your info faster to answer your questions better. You can set up an automatic signature so you don't have to remember to do it. 

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.
If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you.

--
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
ECIR Moderator/Primary Response


Re: Help save our pony

LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>
 

Hi Roger,
I sent you a private email to see if we can't solve why your case history won't open.  If anyone can get it to open please let me know via email.  

--

- ​LeeAnne

ECIR Archivist, Newmarket, Ontario, Canada.  March 2004

Email Me - if link fails use ECIR.Archives at gmail dot com

Is your equine in the Pergolide Dosage Database? View the Pergolide Statistics

  Dawn's 10 Year Case History
     Taken For Granite Art

Quote of the moment: The human spirit must prevail over technology. - Albert Einstein
 


Re: Mad Barn AminoTrace+

 

Hi Kelly!

 

Assuming you are using the Timothy Balance Cubes, you know those are a mixture of timothy and beet pulp, right? 

 

 

 

 


--
Ellen
Pal & Savvy
N. Alabama
08/10/13.


Re: Trim on 3/14 - any recc?

 

Lavinia and Griffin, 
Forgive me if I have asked in the past ... all of his sulcus look deep and painful ... could this be an ongoing reason for his 'pain'?    
--
Ellen
Pal & Savvy
N. Alabama
08/10/13.


Re: Newly diagnosed IR with laminitis and founder

LJ Friedman
 

My thoughts are this,. so you don't have to learn the hard way like many of us  did..  Dr. Kellon. who moderates the group, is the leading laminitis/metabolic vet in the US. When you get instructions, suggestions from the moderators,, it is like you are getting direct help from the leadindg specialists.. Your local family practice vet,,will usually be wrong on most of his/her suggestions. treatment and prescriptions.. Give yourself a big pat on the back for coming to the right place..   all the best 
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014  San Diego, CA

Jesse's Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Newly diagnosed IR with laminitis and founder

jdmaldovan1@...
 

Hi, 
My 8 year old trail horse, Rain, is in the early recovery stages from a bad bout of laminitis, a 9 mm separation and a new diagnosis of IR.  I am getting conflicting advice from my local vet, specialty equine clinic vet and the information from the ECIR website. She is currently getting dry mixed grass hay, and about 1lb of Nutrena Special Care pellets per day at the direction of the clinic vet. He is planning on starting her on Thyroid medication to help improve her metabolism.  I want to give this mare her best chance at regaining soundness and being pain free. Thoughts?


Re: Help save our pony

Roger Benson
 
Edited

Flirt had been doing well until a set back last week.  While letting him roam our barn alley way and empty stalls, he got into a bunch of alfalfa pellets.  That was a week ago.  Now during the last few days he is spending time down again.and hoofs are warm.  He does walk, but tenderly. Would these pellets ( about an inch deep in a feed bucket) have had this kind of effect?
The only other thing different is that he now gets about 8 ounces of Stabul 1 feed twice a day with his flax, salt, J-herb and Vitamin E.  He loves the taste of this feed.  Would this be a contributing factor?  I thought this was very safe.
He has another trim due Thursday.  Am anxious to hear what our new farrier thinks.
Lastly, when I started J-herb, his gums were nice and pink, now they appear more grey.  I give about 1 ounce at feeding time.  Is this too little?  
We were doing so well, but now concerned and trying to find the trigger.  If pellets are the cause, how soon might it take to overcome this set back?
As stated by many, lots of "bumps" along the road to recovery.  Any thoughts are appreciated.
Thank you to everyone.
--
Roger
January 2018  Atwater, Minnesota
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Roger%20and%20Flirt

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=24031 

  




Re: Help save our pony

Roger Benson
 

We are located in West Central MN near Willmar


Re: Mad Barn AminoTrace+

Kelly Daughtry
 

Lorna, 
You are correct - sorry about that. Typing too quickly. She's loving the Timothy Cubes but I am terrified to mix anything in them for fear she will stop eating it. 
I'm thinking of making up some beat pulp up and adding the cocosoya. I would give that to her separate from the ODTC. She wouldn't eat beat pulp without molasses before but maybe with the CocoSoya she will eat and if so I and add in some minerals to that. It's something I haven't tried yet. 
Kelly


Re: Grower/seller produced cold-milled flax

Frances C.
 

Evans Feed Madera Ca. sells 50 lb. whole flax seed for $27.50. This is 'feed grade - not for human consumption'. A feed store in Ellensburg. Wa. sells A 40 lb. bag for $39.00. Human grade requires more thorough cleaning methods and uses the higher quality of seeds - more oil in them . I think all flax comes from Canada. Hope the price remains somewhat stable.
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Trim on 3/14 - any recc?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Griffin,

Thanks for adding the rads.

You are right about the toes so yes, get them backed up. Also, soles are thin and the HPA is broken back so nothing off the bottom and definitely do NOT try to make any adjustments to the position of the heels at this time. Just concentrate on the toes and any flares.

There is some ring bone and significant side bone suggesting previous medial-lateral imbalance but keep g the trim tightly balanced is all you can do.
 
--
Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team


Re: Mad Barn AminoTrace+

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Kelly,

I think you mean California Trace ?

--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/PPID%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories/Success%20Story%20%233%20-%20Lorna%20and%20Ollies%20Story.pdf

 


Re: Grower/seller produced cold-milled flax

 

I have personally found that the olumb golden seeds taste much better than the flat brown ones.  I eat them in cereal.

Gail Russell Forestville CA.  Brother PPID.  Juky 2008

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

--
Gail Russell 8/30/2008

 

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Gail%20and%20Brother%20-%20Odin%20-%20Decaffe%20%20-Gunthar .


Re: Mad Barn AminoTrace+

Cindy Galloway
 

I was just looking on the Mad burn website they have a product called Omneity - IR equine mineral and vitamin premix. It looks fantastic. Might really be worth a look-see. I'm not seeing any added iron so I'm going to give them a call and find out about it
--
- Cindy
November 2017, Campton Hills, Illinois

Quattro
  • Case Histories
  • Photo Album
Yellow Horse
  • Case History
  • Photo Album


Re: Mad Barn AminoTrace+

Kelly Kathleen Daughtry
 

My girl won’t eat Carolina Trace so I wonder about this for her. Thanks for the info
--
Kelly & Micah, Clayton NC

April 2016

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20%20Micah 

Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1829  .

 

 

          

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