Date   

Re: Co Co is making improvements.

 

Huge congratulations to you and Co Co!  Thanks for the update - just makes my day!
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
ECIR mod/support  https://bit.ly/2MlAtPd  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193&p=pcreated,,,20,1,0,0 .


Re: Relevante Foot Sore & Lethargic

 

Hi, Lynn - any time a horse goes off his feed in that way warrants a visit from the vet.  Need to sort out if there is foot pain, impending impaction colic, a fever, infectious disease, etc. Lots of things can make horses go off feed, but this presentation needs to be checked by a vet.
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
ECIR mod/support  https://bit.ly/2MlAtPd  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193&p=pcreated,,,20,1,0,0 .


Re: New member- need help

 

Hi, Carrie - there is so much information out there that it can become mind-numbing! There is also an overwhelming amount of information on this site; we were all overwhelmed at the beginning. Rest assured, it does become easier!

First things first:  finding a safe carrier for the supplements in the Temporary Emergency Diet.  Here is a list of safe feeds; the soy hull pellets are ideal, because they only need a 5 minute soak before feeding, and ditto with all the others except beet pulp.The soy hull pellets do need to be soaked; the others just need to be moistened enough to get the supplements to stick. This list can also be found in the files under Core Diet  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/5%20Core%20Diet    in this folder  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IwQi2duYVTjPhQT_Q8EJBHYnSINnqGU50wVVj24c4kA/edit#gid=0    

Soy hull pellets

 Triple Crown Naturals Timothy Balance Cubes https://www.triplecrownfeed.com/products/timothy-balance-cubes/  

Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance Cubes  http://www.ontariodehy.com/tab02-07.htm  

 Nuzu Stabul 1 http://stabul1.com/stabul-1/   

 LMF Low NSC Stage 1  https://lmffeeds.com/low-nsc-stage-1/     

 LMF Low NSC Complete http://lmffeeds.com/products/low-nsc-complete/ 

Haystack Low Carb/Low Fat Pellets  http://haystackfeeds.com/?page_id=69     

 
Next, it may be time to wean off the Previcox.  I am not sure how long you have been on it, but the manufacturer says 14 days maximum.  The best way to wean down is to do a few doses at every other day instead of daily, then do a dose three days later, then stop. This is to avoid the "NSAID" rebound that can occur in any mammal after long-term use of a Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug. (NSAID).   Shetland ponies can vary in weight from 440 lbs to 660 lbs, with most being around the 500 lb mark. The dose of Previcox for a 440 lb pony is 20 mg,  or just over 1/3 of a 57 mg tablet.  The dose for a 660 lb pony is 29.7 mg, which is half of a 57 mg tablet.  Make sure she is not getting too much (easy to do, when dogs and horses have such differing doses for the same drug. The dose for a 660 lb pony is the same dose that one would give a 13 lb Fi-Fi dog.)

Hang in there!

--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
ECIR mod/support  https://bit.ly/2MlAtPd  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193&p=pcreated,,,20,1,0,0 .


Re: Very sore on one hoof.

 

3-legged lame, with heat and digital pulse is almost always an abscess. Treatment as an abscess with Icthamol is ideal, as is soaking hay during this crisis period.
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
ECIR mod/support  https://bit.ly/2MlAtPd  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193&p=pcreated,,,20,1,0,0 .


Raspberry leaf

Pam Steed
 

Just wondering if raspberry leaf is safe to give to  my Cushing’s/IR mare? She seems to be more footsore during heat cycles. Could not find anything in files-thanks!
--

Pam and Dixie
Paradise, CA
Sept 2016
Case History Folder
Dixie's Photo Album


Re: Drug interaction with Jiagulan/ALCAR/AAKG?

 

The majority of isoxsuprine is eliminated via the kidneys by 24 hours; there is still a significant amount in the serum at 12 hours.  36 hours between using the isoxsuprine and J-herb should be safe.
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
ECIR mod/support  https://bit.ly/2MlAtPd  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193&p=pcreated,,,20,1,0,0 .


Re: Chronium question

 

I did not know that.  The custom vitamin mix that I have formulated by an ECIR member includes 0.5 mg of chromium yeast /day for my mini.   Would it be safer then just to not give any chromium since both my 2 minis battle with high insulin and are both IR/PPID?  Is there any benefit in continuing to give it to them?  I can easily have it taken out of my new order.  Thanks
--
June
Oregon, USA
Oct 2012
Case Histories for Sadie and Chip
Sadie's Photos 
Chip's Photos 
Ω


Re: New member- need help

Carrie Palmer
 

I've done nothing but read so many files, feed, protocols, forums that its getting all mixed up. I will fill out a case forum for each, one pony and one donkey and go from there. I guess I fill out, save on my computer and attach to one of these replies? How I do pictures and stuff is over my head. This forum is way cool but the computer stuff is intimidating. Lol


Re: Honey needs help please

Carrie Palmer
 

One of these I posted to the forum and the other I actually personally emailed but it ended up on here, too!  So confused... this forum is way cool but a little over my head!  Learning here!  I will try and do two case files later today. I guess I save them to my computer and attached to one of these replies? I thought I was "kinda" computer savvy until I got on here. JEEZ!  Lol
Carrie Palmer


Re: New member- need help

ironic_acres@...
 

Hi Carrie,
This is the welcome letter I mentioned on FB. I found it helpful to print it off and go over it step by step. As the others have mentioned, a case file for each horse and a signature for your posts help them help you the best. The links in the welcome letter guide you step by step.
I am so happy for Honey that you are here.
Tracy and Con Migo
February 2013

On Monday, June 25, 2018, 1:35 PM, LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...> wrote:

Hi Carrie,
All the directions are in the form.  Have you filled it out and are unable to upload it? 

- LeeAnne
ECIR Archivist, Newmarket, Ontario, Canada
March/2004
Is your equine in the Pergolide Dosage Database?
View the Database Stats
Dawn's 10 Year Case History
Taken For Granite Art
Favorite Quote: The human spirit must prevail over technology. - Albert Einstein

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 1:20 PM, Carrie Kelly Palmer <redraidercarrie@...> wrote:
I guess I'm confused how to get the case form back to you? I've only had this pony for not quite 3 months yet. Donkey I've had for a year now. 
Thanks for your kindness...

CARRIE PALMER
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains un-awakened." 



 


       



On Monday, June 25, 2018, 11:57:42 AM CDT, ECIR Archives <ecir.archives@...> wrote:


Hi Carrie,
Be assured you are in the right place.  Every equine is respected here so no worries about any kind of breed bashing or any other bad behaviour - it will not be tolerated.  


If you post your concerns in the messages the Support Team will also point you in directions to start learning. You can follow the replies here However they will likely just send you back to the welcome email you were sent when you joined as it lays out the what you need to do to get effective help.  

I know it sounds like a lot of work just to ask a few questions but PPID and IR are not the sort of conditions where a few questions will help the equine. The Support Team needs to know a lot of information so they can help you help your equines as speedily as possible. In case you have lost your welcome email here is a copy of it.  Follow the steps and if you have any problems you can either email me for help or ask in the messages. The support team has helped a ton of members with very limited computer savvy get their info up pronto. 

Not sure if you have checked our Regional Member's Database but that is the place to look for local help.  


Hang in there and welcome to the group!

- LeeAnne
ECIR Archivist, Newmarket, Ontario, Canada
March/2004
Is your equine in the Pergolide Dosage Database?
View the Database Stats
Dawn's 10 Year Case History
Taken For Granite Art
Favorite Quote: The human spirit must prevail over technology. - Albert Einstein

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 12:30 PM, Carrie Kelly Palmer <redraidercarrie@...> wrote:
Hello- So I've been on the ECIR website for awhile and have sent this message as a group but I just feel lost with so much information. Perhaps it might be easier for me to directly email? This in a nutshell what I sent to group...

I'm currently overwhelmed with information but I've been sent to this group for advice. We've been to the vet and have a new/different specialist farrier appointment in about a week. I recently acquired a 16 year old sweet Shetland pony with, based upon x-rays, vet states chronic laminitis. She is my 4 year old little girls dream come true and they fit so well together... not your typical "shitland" breed so I'm gonna try my hardest to economically make this work. I have no history being previous owner died in car wreck. Mare isn't overweight, no crest, somewhat of a pot belly, ribs are slightly exposed, her diet was overgrzed pasture and some hay, last time her feet were done was 8 months prior to me getting her, her current area at our home is rocky/dirt dry lot, fed grass hay in slow feeders, gets chelated minerals, MSM, previcox daily, handful of Thrive feed and 8oz cup of Standlee Timothy pellts twice daily (everything is mixed together). I'm about to order California Trace plus and Mg and start emergency diet as soon as I can get flax and beet pulp which are NOT readily available in my area. I'm afraid to let her graze on these hot Texas summer days due to sugar grass may contain. She is only tender on the driveway (crushed granite) or ranch roads (hard caliche rock). She had the typical elf feet when I brought her home and she was running around fine until day four. I guess the stress of new home, etc. induced her pain and this is where we did xrays and started previcox.  We've only had three trimmings thus far (going slowly hoping not to hurt tendons too fast). We are about to have another trim in a few weeks and considering clogs. We need some serious sole and Hoof Armor was applied for the first time last week. I'm looking forward to seeing how well that helps gets her some sole growth so I can start eventually ponying her when I ride and get her some exercise for my toddler to ride. My toddler and her talk a short walk nearly everyday. The gentleman I get my hay from had his hay tested but I don't see mineral or starch content listed. I have xrays and pictures available but when I go to the ECIR page I get flooded with all these directions and I'm not that computer savvy quite frankly. 

I also have a mini donkey who is 6 years old what has the cresty neck, tummy and butt. I am wondering if this diet will help her as well? How long should the emergency diet be done for a horse that isn't overweight and for a mini donkey that is? I currently feed my Tennessee Walker Thrive feed which is does exceptionally well on for 20 years of age so I'd prefer not to change her diet protocol at this time. Can I not use Timothy pellets in place of Beet pulp? I do not have a barn so this rinsing and soaking BP can prove to be a daily consistent challenge. We are in Texas and if I soaked the BP and leave outside its gonna get gross... how long should the BP soak exactly prior feeding? I have not bought the BP yet but I have been using Timothy pellets for her and my donkey to put minerals, etc. onto and they eat it pretty good now. The donkey does not get any Thrive what so ever. The pony gets like a handful to make it more appealing being at first the pony disliked the Timothy pellets. My other issue is going to find ground flax unless I buy Omega Shine which is at the local Tractor Supply. Other than that I will have to drive WAY out of town or order it. 

I'm sorry to ask so many question and perhaps not doing this correctly based upon the website protocol. I just want to have a starting point and go from there as I learn/start to understand. I was told there may be someone locally to help but I didn't see anyone listed for central Texas (again probably my lack of savvy computer use). It's been HELL trying to find a farrier that understands this issue and drive to me. I did find one vet but I'd have to drive and hour and a half and his visits start at $100 for just a visit and trim. YIKES!  If that is what it takes to start this healing/coffin bone rotation process I will give it a go (seriously- pony is worth it). I live in rodeo-ville where all farriers want to thin out sole an slap on shoes. The farrier I am getting is two hours away but I am also trying to get my TWH mare to go barefoot and she is coming to help me and this pony alongside the vet and radio graphs. I have a lot going on and about to cry while pulling my hair out! Thanks for your time. I can offer pictures if so desired and if easier someone can call me as well. 

Carrie Palmer
Mason, Texas

CARRIE PALMER
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains un-awakened." 



 


       




--
Tracy and Migo
Ohio, USA
February 2013

Case History
Migo's Photo Album 
Ω


Re: Honey needs help please

ironic_acres@...
 

On Monday, June 25, 2018, 1:36 PM, Bonnie Snodgrass <blsgrass344@...> wrote:

Carrie, I already replied to one of your two "Need Help" posts so I will just let this one rest. You other post provided more info about your animals and you got our new member info as a reply. Glad you found us.
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


--
Tracy and Migo
Ohio, USA
February 2013

Case History
Migo's Photo Album 
Ω


Re: Okay To Substitute Uckele Cocoomega For Ground Flax?

LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>
 

Ha!  Might have found it deep in the messages:
Why do flaxseeds need to be ground?
The hard outer shell of the whole flax seed needs to be broken in order
for any health benefits to be imparted to the body. Otherwise, the seeds
just get passed through the body and get excreted via the bowels. So
any seeds not being ground by the teeth, simply pass through. Concerning
grinding your own whole flax seed -- not only does it take you extra
time and energy -- but you also have to be careful about the stability
factor, because flax that hasn't been stabilized can go rancid if not
properly stored. You have to refrigerate or freeze any leftover ground
flax. Then you have to be disciplined enough to diligently clean out
your grinder (most folks use a small coffee grinder) to make sure the
ground flax is totally cleaned out.

The part about the hard shell seems to ring true. 
Here is the link to the original message which did not seem to get any replies.  
- ​LeeAnne

ECIR Archivist, Newmarket, Ontario, Canada.  March 2004

Email Me - if link fails use ECIR.Archives at gmail dot com

Is your equine in the Pergolide Dosage Database? View the Pergolide Statistics

  Dawn's 10 Year Case History
     Taken For Granite Art

Quote of the moment: The human spirit must prevail over technology. - Albert Einstein
 


Re: My i.r. mare

Jonni Jump
 

She is on pasture 24/7 accasionaly with cows that graze the grass down to a manageable level. 
She has a small hole in her muzzle. 
What combats high iron or do I need to find somewhere else to board?
--
Jonni Jump 
Augusta Ga.
Mirage i.r. friesian/ssh mare
Age 16 foundered 2011


Re: Okay To Substitute Uckele Cocoomega For Ground Flax?

LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>
 

You are reading my mind Helen.  I was just searching for why we grind it but couldn't find anything in the few minutes before I have to run out the door. 
Support Team? 
--

- ​LeeAnne

ECIR Archivist, Newmarket, Ontario, Canada.  March 2004

Email Me - if link fails use ECIR.Archives at gmail dot com

Is your equine in the Pergolide Dosage Database? View the Pergolide Statistics

  Dawn's 10 Year Case History
     Taken For Granite Art

Quote of the moment: The human spirit must prevail over technology. - Albert Einstein
 


Re: International Safe Feeds File

 


Re: Honey needs help please

 

Carrie, I already replied to one of your two "Need Help" posts so I will just let this one rest. You other post provided more info about your animals and you got our new member info as a reply. Glad you found us.
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: New member- need help

LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>
 

Hi Carrie,
All the directions are in the form.  Have you filled it out and are unable to upload it? 

- LeeAnne
ECIR Archivist, Newmarket, Ontario, Canada
March/2004
Is your equine in the Pergolide Dosage Database?
View the Database Stats
Dawn's 10 Year Case History
Taken For Granite Art
Favorite Quote: The human spirit must prevail over technology. - Albert Einstein

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 1:20 PM, Carrie Kelly Palmer <redraidercarrie@...> wrote:
I guess I'm confused how to get the case form back to you? I've only had this pony for not quite 3 months yet. Donkey I've had for a year now. 
Thanks for your kindness...

CARRIE PALMER
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains un-awakened." 



 


       



On Monday, June 25, 2018, 11:57:42 AM CDT, ECIR Archives <ecir.archives@...> wrote:


Hi Carrie,
Be assured you are in the right place.  Every equine is respected here so no worries about any kind of breed bashing or any other bad behaviour - it will not be tolerated.  


If you post your concerns in the messages the Support Team will also point you in directions to start learning. You can follow the replies here However they will likely just send you back to the welcome email you were sent when you joined as it lays out the what you need to do to get effective help.  

I know it sounds like a lot of work just to ask a few questions but PPID and IR are not the sort of conditions where a few questions will help the equine. The Support Team needs to know a lot of information so they can help you help your equines as speedily as possible. In case you have lost your welcome email here is a copy of it.  Follow the steps and if you have any problems you can either email me for help or ask in the messages. The support team has helped a ton of members with very limited computer savvy get their info up pronto. 

Not sure if you have checked our Regional Member's Database but that is the place to look for local help.  


Hang in there and welcome to the group!

- LeeAnne
ECIR Archivist, Newmarket, Ontario, Canada
March/2004
Is your equine in the Pergolide Dosage Database?
View the Database Stats
Dawn's 10 Year Case History
Taken For Granite Art
Favorite Quote: The human spirit must prevail over technology. - Albert Einstein

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 12:30 PM, Carrie Kelly Palmer <redraidercarrie@...> wrote:
Hello- So I've been on the ECIR website for awhile and have sent this message as a group but I just feel lost with so much information. Perhaps it might be easier for me to directly email? This in a nutshell what I sent to group...

I'm currently overwhelmed with information but I've been sent to this group for advice. We've been to the vet and have a new/different specialist farrier appointment in about a week. I recently acquired a 16 year old sweet Shetland pony with, based upon x-rays, vet states chronic laminitis. She is my 4 year old little girls dream come true and they fit so well together... not your typical "shitland" breed so I'm gonna try my hardest to economically make this work. I have no history being previous owner died in car wreck. Mare isn't overweight, no crest, somewhat of a pot belly, ribs are slightly exposed, her diet was overgrzed pasture and some hay, last time her feet were done was 8 months prior to me getting her, her current area at our home is rocky/dirt dry lot, fed grass hay in slow feeders, gets chelated minerals, MSM, previcox daily, handful of Thrive feed and 8oz cup of Standlee Timothy pellts twice daily (everything is mixed together). I'm about to order California Trace plus and Mg and start emergency diet as soon as I can get flax and beet pulp which are NOT readily available in my area. I'm afraid to let her graze on these hot Texas summer days due to sugar grass may contain. She is only tender on the driveway (crushed granite) or ranch roads (hard caliche rock). She had the typical elf feet when I brought her home and she was running around fine until day four. I guess the stress of new home, etc. induced her pain and this is where we did xrays and started previcox.  We've only had three trimmings thus far (going slowly hoping not to hurt tendons too fast). We are about to have another trim in a few weeks and considering clogs. We need some serious sole and Hoof Armor was applied for the first time last week. I'm looking forward to seeing how well that helps gets her some sole growth so I can start eventually ponying her when I ride and get her some exercise for my toddler to ride. My toddler and her talk a short walk nearly everyday. The gentleman I get my hay from had his hay tested but I don't see mineral or starch content listed. I have xrays and pictures available but when I go to the ECIR page I get flooded with all these directions and I'm not that computer savvy quite frankly. 

I also have a mini donkey who is 6 years old what has the cresty neck, tummy and butt. I am wondering if this diet will help her as well? How long should the emergency diet be done for a horse that isn't overweight and for a mini donkey that is? I currently feed my Tennessee Walker Thrive feed which is does exceptionally well on for 20 years of age so I'd prefer not to change her diet protocol at this time. Can I not use Timothy pellets in place of Beet pulp? I do not have a barn so this rinsing and soaking BP can prove to be a daily consistent challenge. We are in Texas and if I soaked the BP and leave outside its gonna get gross... how long should the BP soak exactly prior feeding? I have not bought the BP yet but I have been using Timothy pellets for her and my donkey to put minerals, etc. onto and they eat it pretty good now. The donkey does not get any Thrive what so ever. The pony gets like a handful to make it more appealing being at first the pony disliked the Timothy pellets. My other issue is going to find ground flax unless I buy Omega Shine which is at the local Tractor Supply. Other than that I will have to drive WAY out of town or order it. 

I'm sorry to ask so many question and perhaps not doing this correctly based upon the website protocol. I just want to have a starting point and go from there as I learn/start to understand. I was told there may be someone locally to help but I didn't see anyone listed for central Texas (again probably my lack of savvy computer use). It's been HELL trying to find a farrier that understands this issue and drive to me. I did find one vet but I'd have to drive and hour and a half and his visits start at $100 for just a visit and trim. YIKES!  If that is what it takes to start this healing/coffin bone rotation process I will give it a go (seriously- pony is worth it). I live in rodeo-ville where all farriers want to thin out sole an slap on shoes. The farrier I am getting is two hours away but I am also trying to get my TWH mare to go barefoot and she is coming to help me and this pony alongside the vet and radio graphs. I have a lot going on and about to cry while pulling my hair out! Thanks for your time. I can offer pictures if so desired and if easier someone can call me as well. 

Carrie Palmer
Mason, Texas
432-556-2970  

CARRIE PALMER
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains un-awakened." 



 


       




Re: Drug interaction with Jiagulan/ALCAR/AAKG?

Techtress
 

How long should one wait between stopping isoxuprine and starting on jiagulan? Thanks

--
Diana
Techtress
Louisville, KY
Since 02/14/18
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Diana%20and%20Zorrillo
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=56804


Re: New member- need help

 

Hello Carrie,
You've made a good start so far and it looks like LeeAnne has already given you encouragement.  I am a "New Member" greeter who gives you the tried and true steps to follow (see below). Start at the top and work your way downward. Diagnosis and Diet are at the top for a reason. Obviously a vet's diagnosis and lab tests are ideal. The emergency diet is a strict diet but it is SAFE. Please read about the necessity for using ONLY low ESC and starch feeds, this includes the hay or hay pellets/cubes that you feed. I suggest you take a thorough look for ANY and ALL blades of grass and clover. Seriously, remove it all. I got too complacent myself recently about a tiny amount of grass. Big mistake! 

Please get your signature created and download a blank case history form, use one form per animal. Begin working on your forms, one for each equid. I know this is a lot to process, but take the first steps with Diagnosis and Diet and begin putting the facts that you know into the case histories. The Wiki: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/home
has detailed instructions for every step. 

Our moderators need you to supply information about each animal in order to answer your questions and give you safe advise for your equines. Ask your questions (how to questions are OK to ask also) but understand that you will need to supply some history.

Welcome to the group! 

The ECIR provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

In order to help you and your equine quickly and effectively, we need you to explain your equine's situation by following the instructions you were sent upon joining. Your completed case history form and ECIR Signature will save days of back and forth questions. If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. Follow the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up and then upload your case history. If you have any trouble, just post a message or email the case history group explaining specifically where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin, glucose and Leptin. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating". Knowing this helps to differentiate if a horse is IR "at baseline" or if an elevated ACTH is "driving" the insulin up. In Europe, substitute adiponectin for the leptin test.

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: IR is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine. If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for IR/PPID individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to IR/PPID equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

 

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

 

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

We ask all members to sign their first name, general location, date of joining and link to the case history and photo album every time they post. It helps us to find your info faster to answer your questions better. You can set up an automatic signature so you don't have to remember to do it. 

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.
If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you. 

 

--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: Okay To Substitute Uckele Cocoomega For Ground Flax?

Patty Franklin
 

Wait. Moderators, if the flax seed is not ground, will the horse get enough of the omega 3 benefit? I thought that's why we grind flax seed, to make the oils more available.
--
Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID)
May 2017
Scappoose, OR  USA

Blessing's Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing
Blessing's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847 

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