Date   

Re: Magnetic therapy for laminitis

Pat Gauvreau <pgauvreau@...>
 

Thanks Dr K.

I’ll see if I can find these studies again and link them to group. I didn’t mean JHerb was not proven to work. Just meant I’m willing to try things even when I’ve never heard of it before (even when my vet disagrees with it, as he does with some of the ECIR Group advice).  The claim is that static magnets alter the entire body to “rebalance” and they admit they don’t go through the hoof wall. I am skeptical, but open to new ideas. Many diabetics use magnetic foot insoles to help their circulation and I believe they are FDA approved. I’ll post the links I got this information from as soon as I find them again.  Thanks  
--
Pat and Savannah
Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada
January 2018 

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Savannah
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=22028&p=pcreated,,,50,2,0,0


Re: Selenium Source?

 

This is what I use:  https://www.scahealth.com/scah/product/ultracruz-equine-selenium-yeast-horse-supplement

I buy the 1 lb powder as it is most cost effective. It comes with a tiny scoop, 1 scoop equals aprox 2mg Selenium Yeast. 

I have learned to transfer the powder to a screw top container and add a piece of flexible plastic (cut from a plastic ziplock bag) between the container and the screw on lid. Some very fine powders will absorb moisture from the air and the moisture in the powders then increases the actual volume  and messes with your measurements. Finely ground food grade calcium carbonate and Pea Protein powder will all attract moisture.

Most minerals are shipped in plastic bags but as soon as I open the bags I transfer the finely ground minerals to containers with lids and add the plastic to improve the lid seal.
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: Next Steps for Ike & Sparky

Julie Thomas
 


Selenium Source?

Patty Cravens
 

Where do other members purchase selenium from?The sources I have found  are a combination of Selenium and Vit E. I already add Vit E per protocol but need to add selenium to a custom mineral mix I previously purchased so I can use it up with new tested hay source. Thank you in advance for any help. 
--
Patty and Penny in Mazon, IL
Feb 2018

Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Patty%20and%20Penny   

 

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Patty%20and%20Penny


https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=27571. 

 


Avoiding the veil

Anette
 

In an effort to avoid the "veil" should  I give half the 1mg tablet? For how long? I did look in the files but didn't see this info. Thank you.
--
Anette P and Jaywalker
Boomer, NC
Sep.9 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anette%20and%20Jaywalker


Slow feed hay nets and neck issues

Carol Grubb <headmare0@...>
 

This may have been discussed but I am thinking I saw a statement from a member saying she thought use of the slow feed hay nets and the horses shaking them and throwing them up in the air promoted neck and spine issues?   Has anyone had experience with this or can one of the Vets have some input?  All my horses are on slow feed hay nets and they all shake them to get the hay out.  i do feed a small amount of free hay so they are not ravenous when they get their nets.   I also use the portagrazers which require them to push the lids around to access more hay in a different hole.  Would like to avoid any additional physical issues!   
--
Carol 
Tucson AZ
2012
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71740 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carol%20and%20RIver


Re: Compounding pharmacies & titraing up dosage of pergolide

Paula Hancock
 

On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 05:12 PM, Saucier Kathy wrote:
I have two questions
Hi Kathy,
You can search the previous messages on Thriving Pets to get more information:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/search?q=Thriving+Pet

Yes, it is recommended to increase the dose by 0.25 mg increments to reach the target 1 mg.  There are different ways of doing that.  If your vet writes a prescription for whatever you need to do that, that is one way.  Another option is to open the 1 mg capsule, dissolve the powder into 10 mls of water, give 2.5 mls on day one, refrigerate the rest, and give 2.5 mls the next three days.  If your horse seems to tolerate that okay, then dissolve another cap as before and give 5 mls, store cold over night and give another 5 mls.  Repeat that to get four days at that dose.  Make sense?  You can also do the dose titration with Prascend if your vet will sell you whatever number of pills you need.  I am not sure what the most cost effective way to do it is.
Hope that helps!
--
Paula with Cory (IR & PPID?and Onyx (IR/PPID)

  and Remy (?)

Bucks County, PA, USA

ECIR Primary Response

NRCplus 2011  ECIR 2014 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Paula%20and%20Cory

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1624

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Paula%20and%20Onyx

 


Re: Founder pony update. Good news

Marsha
 

He is barefoot. I trim him myself.  I have made split pea snacks and he likes them. I saw a recent thread about getting them in bulk. I my try that. 

. Please excuse auto-correct. Auto-correct assumes too much. 

On Oct 2, 2018, at 2:16 PM, Josephine Trott <jftrott@...> wrote:

Good luck at PSG this weekend Marsha!  Glad to hear you're going to campaign a non-warmblood and non-PRE at FEI levels :)  Is he barefoot or do you have him shod?  I presume you've tried split peas etc as an extra protein source for him to build muscle?
Best
Josie
Davis ca 06/09


Re: Which hay to pick based on hay analysis?

donabcalhoun@...
 

Thank you Eleanor - once I confirm I can get the hay then I will get the balancing done.  

Thanks!
--
Dona and Guinness
December 2017, Rougemont, NC
Guinness Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dona%20and%20Guinness 
Guinness Photo Link:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=69379


Re: Which hay to pick based on hay analysis?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The first consideration is always the sugar and starch. Iron and manganese can be balanced.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Magnetic therapy for laminitis

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Pat,

Where have you read these "studies"? Could you link them? Pain relief is the effect most well supported, not circulation. It's a moot point anyway since static magnetic fields cannot penetrate the hoof wall. They're not strong enough.

We strongly discourage the "shot in the dark" (aka kitchen sink) approach here. Jiaogulan is not a "shot in the dark". It's been used successfully for at least 15 years and is proven by formal research to dramatically increase nitric oxide. 

There's a difference between unproven and shot in the dark.  If something has a reasonable argument for trying it that is based in fact that's completely different from something that is not reasonable or supported in any way. Static magnetic bell boots are not reasonable.  Something being not likely to cause harm is not a reason to try it.  Wasting time on a useless therapy is harm.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Which hay to pick based on hay analysis?

 

Without knowing iron and manganese numbers??

--
Ellen
Pal & Savvy
N. Alabama
Aug 2013
Case History


Re: Which hay to pick based on hay analysis?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 


Re: Founder pony update. Good news

Josephine Trott
 

Good luck at PSG this weekend Marsha!  Glad to hear you're going to campaign a non-warmblood and non-PRE at FEI levels :)  Is he barefoot or do you have him shod?  I presume you've tried split peas etc as an extra protein source for him to build muscle?
Best
Josie
Davis ca 06/09


Re: Founder pony update. Good news

donabcalhoun@...
 

I love hearing these good news stories - it is no small testament to the amount of effort you have put in to their care.  It definitely isn't easy, but so worth it.  Congratulations!
--
Dona and Guinness
December 2017, Rougemont, NC
Guinness Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dona%20and%20Guinness 
Guinness Photo Link:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=69379


Re: Which hay to pick based on hay analysis?

donabcalhoun@...
 

Eleanor when I was looking at the sample reports I don't see one that says straight orchardgrass - maybe you are seeing something in one of the descriptions I am not - but they appear to be both orchard and timothy.  Can you tell me which number or some other differentiating factor?

Thanks for helping.
Dona
--
Dona and Guinness
December 2017, Rougemont, NC
Guinness Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dona%20and%20Guinness 
Guinness Photo Link:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=69379


Re: Trim evaluation and mark ups for farrier

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Will do. Thanks, Susan.

--
Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team


NOW: How to assess pharmacies #legalityofpergolide

Nancy C
 
Edited

When questions about pharmacies not on the groups.io list come up, it is a good time to review how to best interact with any compounder.

First, here is the ECIR policy concerning the Compounding Pharmacy list:

Compounding Pharmacies are listed on ECIR groups.io for the convenience of the ECIR outreach group members.  Each pharmacy has been used and recommended by individual members. This does not however mean that listed companies are in any way endorsed by the ECIR Group outreach, ECIR Group Inc, its Directors or Officers. It also is no guarantee that the pharmacy continues to  currently operate in a satisfactory manner. ECIR will not knowingly list a company with a history of significant infractions.
 
It is the responsibility of each member to ensure they are choosing reputable  businesses for any product.

At the sole discretion of  the ECIR Group, pharmacies with a known history of violation of the public trust will not be listed. Actions would include but not be limited to history of significant customer complaints to regulatory authorities, violations and/or citations of any state or federal laws and significant reports of inappropriate treatment of members.
 

Interacting with a compounder:
If you google list of veterinary compounding pharmacies you will find many not listed on ECIR. That does not mean they are not good and reliable. It may mean that their names have not come up here before. To help members ensure they are getting the best possible product and service we have compiled a list of questions that may be of help to members when talking with pharmacies.  NOTE: This list of questions is not all-inclusive.

  • Ask if the pharmacy is licensed in your state.
  • Ask if they will share Certificate of Analysis for viability of the compound.
  • Does the pharmacy do their own testing of product? If so, will they share results?
  • If unable to fill an existing prescription, one may ask for transfer to another pharmacy. If you do request a transfer of your prescription, be sure to check that it actually gets done and give the new pharmacy a heads up to look for it.
  • Will the pharmacy compound the specific dosage you need?
  • Are they members of any accrediting organizations/boards such as PCAB (Pharmacy Compounding Accreditation Board)?
  • Have they had any action taken against them for compounding issues? If so, for what and how was that resolved?
  • What is their turnaround time for filling scripts?
  • How do they ship, what is cost and transit time ?

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
DDT+E = effective treatment for PPID and EMS/IR equines: https://bit.ly/2J4ZgYT

 


Re: Trim evaluation and mark ups for farrier

norcalpintabians
 

Lavinia, I loaded the solar plane photos. Im interested to see how you mark the hooves for the next trim :)  Thanks!

--
Susan Morgan
June 30, 2018
Ione, California
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20and%20Knight

Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71655


Re: 9 questions about next steps

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Heidi,

1: Why is he still being confined to a stall? Movement at liberty is fine but I wouldn't recommend formal exercise until the trim gets sorted out and he has time to regrow his feet properly.

2: You can start J-herb now. Any pain at this point is about the trim issues and secondary compensation rather than active laminitis. J-herb will help increase circulation, which will encourage more hoof growth. If there is any lingering abscess material anywhere it will also encourage that to exit, which could temporarily make him very sore on the affected foot until the abscess drains.

3: Definitely start to hand walk him, then allow him access to the larger turnout area. Agree it's a struggle to keep a big, young, growing, feeling-good boy cooped up.

4: No reason to wean him off the SR boots until he no longer needs them. If he is comfortable in his stall without them then leave them off there but put them on whenever/wherever he isn't comfortable bare. The boots are both protective and rehab as they are helping supply the mechanics that are missing in his feet right now.

5: Great - just post a note once the new pix are up.

6: I believe you meant hoof cinches - yes? Hoof cinches do not solve trim issues and I don't see how they would be helpful in Skyler's situation.

7: Magna Wave, which is PEMF therapy - can't answer that. Maybe one of the vets can address it. Endocrinopathic laminitis is not an inflammatory process so nothing that is aimed at dealing with inflammation is going to be helpful. At this point, you should not be dealing with actual laminitis but maybe with the lingering aftermath of damage. That will require time to grow out. There were definitely some major mechanical issues with the trim that were present long before the laminitis bout added the proverbial "insult to injury" component. If his diet is tight and the trim has been addressing the mechanical issues, he should not be painful now.

8: Acupuncture, body work, chiro, massage are all great adjunct therapies that can help keep the rest of the body from adding compensatory pain to the pain from the feet themselves. Some of the soreness you may be seeing could be from the rest of his body contorting and becoming tense and stiff from the original attempts to stay off the sore feet. This can then become it's own secondary problem as painful compensating body parts (hind end, back, shoulders, neck) generate more compensation. By all means incorporate the other therapies if you have access to them.

9: You mention in the case history you had the hay analyzed and were working with Dr. Kellon to get his diet mineral balanced. Is that in place now? If so, could you please update the case history to reflect this. The medial-lateral imbalance and high heels was just plain poor basic farrier work. His slightly elevated pulses are likely related to the mechanical problems and may also be due to the recent trim changes that have been made. His size magnifies even the smallest thing that is not optimal into a greater problem - gravity is not your friend :(

--
Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team

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