Date   

Re: water faecal syndrome (ppid/Ir)

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Sandy,

PPIR/IR has nothing to do with diarrhea.  Is Puppet on grass?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


French white millet (ppid/Ir)

sandie harries
 

hi. 

Recently someone suggested i swap lupins for white millet. Is it safe? How much? 
--
Sandie Giroux-harries
member since July 2014
Melbourne, Australia 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sandie%20and%20Trinket


water faecal syndrome (ppid/Ir)

sandie harries
 

hi guys,

my vet has identified this in my pony. Poor puppet 🙁
It seems to occur around spring every year 🤔
i took her off maxi soy to see if it was an irritant but hasn’t changed. Have added psyllium husk to see if it would soak, hasn’t worked. Have tried protexin, no help. Currently on bariki digest and no help 😔 should I remove lupins? thinking of trying equisure from KER. 

Any options???
--
Sandie Giroux-harries
member since July 2014
Melbourne, Australia 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sandie%20and%20Trinket


PPID in Donkeys

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

This study found a TRH stimulation test using equine cutoffs correlated with clinical signs in donkeys suspected of PPID:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30362589 
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Pergolide doseages

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

TRH:  Thanks,  Jaini.  I didn't know that.  Anyone know the status in EU and AU?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Pulses

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Laurie,

Being an energyworker has nothing to do with it - unless it might be subconsciously putting some kind of expectation in your head that is interfering.

Digital pulses can be  faint but they are always palpable - assuming the horse will stand still.  First, locate the artery by slowly running your fingertips over the  back half of the fetlock, at the level of the seasamoid bones. When you pass over one of the paired arteries you will feel it roll under your fingertips.  They have a diameter similar to a pencil.  After locating the artery, rest your fingertips over it lightly and wait for the pulse. Have you taken your own pulse? It feels very similar but you have to get down through the hair to skin level.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Pergolide doseages

 

Eleanor, we are a little stuck on this in Canada. I know one vet in Quebec that will import the TRH, but apparently one has to pay for the whole flat (over $1,000), so if there aren't a whole bunch of horses needing a TRH stim test, it is unlikely that a practice will bring it in.  Dang!
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
ECIR mod/support  https://bit.ly/2MlAtPd  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=39711


Re: Pulses

 

Jaini,

Thank you.

I don't seem to be able to find the maxillary one either.  But if the heart rate with a stethoscope works, then I'm on it.  I have one of those!  :D
--

Laurie and Atticus and Diamond - 05 2016
Collegeville, PA
Atticus Case History - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Laurie%20and%20Atticus/Atticus%20Case%20History/Atticus%20Case%20History.docx.pdf

Diamond Case History - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Laurie%20and%20Atticus/Diamond%20Case%20History/Diamond%27s%20Case%20History.pdf 
Atticus  Current Hay Analysis - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Laurie%20and%20Atticus/Hay%20Analysis/Hay%20Analysis%209-8-17.pdf

Atticus Photos - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=42693&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0 


 

 

 


Re: Pergolide doseages

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

p.s. Improvement 3 weeks into the low dose pergolide with this timing could easily have been from ACTH levels dropping anyway rather than a drug effect.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Pergolide doseages

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

To try to sort through the PPID issue, I would suggest tapering off pergolide in December and doing a TRH stimulation in February.  If positive, you have an early PPID. If negative, you have an IR horse that is sensitive to the seasonal rise effects so know you at least need pergolide seasonally.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


"Clown Shoes"

Bonnie
 

Recent discussions of long toes reminded me of the phrase "clown shoes" which has been used over the years. back in 2006 for example Judy A. said this " My personal description to folks is this... YOU go and put on a pair of comical clown shoes the size of about 18's, then walk around for the day. How do you think you're legs and feet will feel?"
Maybe we need a visual description of "levering forces", such as a diagram or video.
(Is anyone into computer animation? Have a teenager who is?)
--
Bonnie and Lad
North Ontario
Dec 2008
 


Re: Upcoming testing

 

Hi, Patricia, 

Huge kudos to you!  You have done an amazing job with Miss Dancer. 

I would get an ACTH as well; in my horses, they actually seem to peak in late Oct - mid November (apparently they didn't get the memo about when the seasonal rise is), so I think it would be prudent to get that as well.

Thanks for the update on the case history.  :)
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
ECIR mod/support  https://bit.ly/2MlAtPd  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=39711


Re: Pulses

 

Hi, Laurie - you are not alone!  In fact, digital pulses on a horse should be hard to find.  Here is a good explanation:  http://www.ironfreehoof.com/equine-digital-pulses.html    

 If you want to monitor pulse rate, you can also use the maxillary artery, under the jaw (I like this one, because I don't have to bend over :) ).  https://equimed.com/health-centers/first-aid/articles/four-ways-to-take-your-horses-pulse  ; or you can count heartbeats using a stethoscope. 


--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
ECIR mod/support  https://bit.ly/2MlAtPd  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=39711


Re: Pergolide doseages

Cheryl Oickle
 

Sorry need to read the pergolide suggestion in the response too quick to respond.   I hav a trimmer coming out nov 14 or 15 and will acquire hoof pics with a high grade camera at that time for posting and evaluation.   Specializes in issues as this
--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel


Re: Sadie's trim...Jaini, Dr. Kellon, Others please comment on this if you can. This is where the disagreement is.

 

Hi, June. I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it is time for a new trimmer. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and the feet are not only not improving, they are getting worse with each trim.
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
ECIR mod/support  https://bit.ly/2MlAtPd  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=39711


Re: Pergolide doseages

Cheryl Oickle
 

Just one correction her hay IS tested and less than 10% ESC  actually 7.1 and starch is 1.2 %.  Sorry if I wasn’t clear on that.   The prascend dose? Thoughts should it stay at 0.5 or should I try again to increase to 1.0 mg
--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel


Re: Savannah’s new trim pics uploaded

 

Hi, Pat - the only real way to tell if there has been damage to the circulation is by doing a venogram, which is very expensive, and so is out of the question. 

I know this is tough for you. I really think you need to pull out all the stops and find a new vet. Alternatively, ask if you can sign a waiver stating that there is no fault coming to the vet clinic if a higher dose of compounded pergolide causes any issues.  You can also have a look at the file Getting Your Veterinarian on Board (scroll down)  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/9b%20Pulling%20it%20Together   
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
ECIR mod/support  https://bit.ly/2MlAtPd  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=39711


Re: Need help assessing progress, please advise. Lavinia may I please have mark-ups by Tuesday 11-06?

 

Hi, Patty - Penny certainly is lovely!  I am just adding my complete agreement with Lavinia. Not only are the toes still too long, they are much, much too long. X-rays on the next visits are strongly recommended, so that your trimmer can see that a ton of toe has to come off. 

I hate to say it, but  the trim "progress" since March (a full 7 months, which should be half a growth cycle) is not progressing, but seems even to be moving backward a bit. After 7 months, assuming all the triggers for the laminitis were removed, it should look like half of a normal hoof sitting inside the growing-out damaged area, kind of like a person wearing galoshes.  With the long toes and high heels, the new foot doesn't get to grow down very far before it is distorted by the mechanics of the trim, so, as Lavinia says, the problem is just perpetuating itself.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Might be time to find a new trimmer.
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
ECIR mod/support  https://bit.ly/2MlAtPd  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=39711


Re: Sadie's trim...Jaini, Dr. Kellon, Others please comment on this if you can. This is where the disagreement is.

 

 hi Denise, I am aware of Pete Ramey and actually my trimmer is a Pete Ramey follower and trims according to his protocol supposedly. I do have the DVD series but have not watched all of it and some of it is beyond my understanding.   my trimmer continues to believe that she is trimming according to Pete Ramey's protocol so I don't know what else I can do about that part of it.
--
June
Oregon, USA
Oct 2012
Case Histories for Sadie and Chip
Sadie's Photos 
Chip's Photos 
Ω


Re: Lavinia, Could you review my new Xrays and Pictures we took yesterday 11/2/18 ?

Heidi Wright
 

Thank you for that feedback Lavinia.  My hoof pic upload must have failed, so am uploading dorsal and lateral views right now.   I didn't get sole plane but will get those tomorrow.  

Yes, the first farrier that worked on him thought "bevel" meant thin dorsal wall.  I started bringing the toe back this morning and noticed the wedge material is pinkish/reddish, like stained with blood.  Is that normal?  And do I need to do just a little at a time on the toe or can I go for it in one session?

My plan was to take a little off the LF heel every few days.  At what point should I get a fresh set of xrays?

Thanks much.

Heidi



He is moving well now but I can tell he is still sore as he gets uncomfortable when I trim him and he has to weight one front leg.  I would be interested in the team's thoughts on when it would be useful to hand walk him,  Given he has obvious gaps in his hoof wall and possible abscess spots, should I wait till that part of the hoof has grown out before walking even though he is walking sound?


Heidi Wright
joined Aug 15, 2018
5130 State Route 38
Malta, IL  60150
815-761-2341

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heidi%20and%20Skyler 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=69604

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