Date   

LMF Low NSC feeds

Annette
 

I searching for a small amount of suitable feed as a carrier for supplements.  Alley will not eat beet pulp and I have cut alfalfa pellets and hay out of her diet.  I am currently feeding 5 ounces of Standlee timothy pellets as carrier, but was hoping I could do better in terms of starch/sugar.  The only low NSC feeds available locally are those made by LMF.  My local feed merchant stocks both Low NSC Stage 1 and Gentle Balance. However, I noticed that the ingredients include alfalfa meal (not the first ingredient on the list) and wondered if that is a concern or whether the amount in the feed is small enough that it shouldn't be a problem.  
--
Annette and Alley
October 2018, Moscow, Idaho
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Annette%20and%20Alley/Alley%20Case%20History.pdf  .
Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78421  .


Re: HELP! BEHAVIORAL ISSUES

Maxine McArthur
 

On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 08:32 AM, Eleanor Kellon, VMD wrote:
Changes in cycline and behavior during cycling have been seen with pergolide.
Dr Kellon, is this with confirmed PPID mares or those who are not certain PPID but are trialling pergolide--and are possibly not PPID? Is it just when starting or could it appear if the pergolide dose is incorrect (too much or too little)? By 'changes', do you mean changes compared to before the mare went on pergolide? 
 
--
Maxine and Indy (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Re: Ongoing lameness - please help.

mtillig16@...
 

Hi Lavinia,
I will get in touch with the farrier asap, mark-up guidelines would be greatly appreciated when you have the time please. Thank you (and Pauline!).

- Monique

November 2018, Victoria, Australia

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Monique%20and%20Wizard/Wizard%20Case%20History.asd.pdf

Wizard's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78678&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Re: Photos of hooves uploaded

Annette
 

Thank you, Jaini. Could I gradually work toward leaving the boots off altogether in the soft footing in her paddock and shed or do most people find that it is a good idea to leave the boots on some of the time?
--
Annette and Alley
October 2018, Moscow, Idaho
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Annette%20and%20Alley/Alley%20Case%20History.pdf  .
Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78421  .


Re: Diabetic horse? Confused by lab work

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

 For starters, see if you can source soyhull pellets instead of soy for your protein supplement. Use as much as you need combined with hay and beet pulp (well rinsed and soaked) to get protein up where it needs to be.

Stop ALL other supplements and get body shots of the horses posted ASAP as well as hoof photos.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Diabetic horse? Confused by lab work

 

Well, right off the bat, please stop the Lifeline = Matrix MV balancer. I have done a lot of looking for feeds and balancers in the past, and I did have some starch and sugar results from the Lifeline and Matrix feeds; I have lost those numbers, but I can tell you for certain that there is nothing in those feed lines that can be safely fed to IR horses. Also, given the fact that the information on the website is so very inadequate: https://ottercoop.com/_customelements/uploadedResources/2017MatrixProductGuide.pdf   you have no idea how much of any minerals they are getting with that balancer.

I am unable to find nutritional information about how much sugar and starch is in cranberry powder. Could you ask your vet if she has that information?  And also, ask what the cranberry powder is supposed to be doing.
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
DDT+E = effective treatment for PPID and EMS/IR equines: https://bit.ly/2J4ZgYT

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=39711


Re: HELP! BEHAVIORAL ISSUES

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

She's been on estradiol since May. Estradiol is the "play nice" hormone. It also doesn't build up over time. This coincides with her pergolide. Changes in cycline and behavior during cycling have been seen with pergolide. I'd stop the pergolide to see if she normalizes. Her laminitis times haven't coincided with seasonal rise which is almost over now. Watch crest, mobility, turns etc. closely but if she stays good without pergolide consider TRH stimulation in early spring or just retest ACTH next August to see if she may need it, side effects on behavior or not, during the seasonal rise.

Is she still on Thyro-L? I don't see any justification for that.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: HELP! BEHAVIORAL ISSUES

 

Hi, Kelly - well, that is pretty distressing for you! 

Some horses get weird when their insulin is too high; instead of becoming lethargic, they get wild.  It is tough to say if Mia is one of these. I wouldn't take her off the estradiol, unless Dr. Kellon suggests otherwise. She has been on it since May, so it is unlikely that it would be suddenly affecting her behaviour. On the other hand, if it is helping to keep her insulin somewhat in check, then taking her off it would be counter-productive.

In other cases, ovarian tumours can certainly cause behaviour changes.  Ovarian ultrasound or a rectal exam, plus serum testosterone when the vet pulls blood, would rule that in or out:  https://www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/2003/winter/Granulosatheca.shtml  

When your vet comes out, get insulin, leptin, glucose, ACTH, and testosterone. Pull the blood before any sedation.  Dr. Kellon, is it worth-while getting FSH and LH done at this time/
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
DDT+E = effective treatment for PPID and EMS/IR equines: https://bit.ly/2J4ZgYT

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=39711


Re: Desi day x-rays uploaded

Bobbie Day
 

Thank you 
i should have noted this was when was first diagnosed with founder
shes had corrective shoeing and trimming since
we have a new farrier but he wouldn’t trim her when he was last here and he won’t be back for two weeks yet. I did take some pictures of her today when we changed out her boots. She did not have a abscess so I’m thinking it’s now her arthritis.
ill upload those photos soon. We have no Farrier’s in our area , but I think the new one that’s agreed to take her on is really knowledgeable.

--
Bobbie and Desi
Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


Re: Diabetic horse? Confused by lab work

bokayarabians@...
 


-- The balancer is called LifeLine MD Balancer and to that I add 1/4 tsp biotin, 2tsp methionine 1 1/2 tblsp lysine and 1/2 tsp copper. 2tblsp salt, 1 cup ground flax 1/2 tsp biochrome. This is mixed into 1 cup soy and 2 cup beet pulp (rinsed for the IR and PPID horses) Target and Libby also get 2 tsp cinnamon and 2 tsp bovine colostrum. Target and Libby also get 12 lbs grass and teff hay in slow feed nets, and at the last feed of the night they get a mush of 2 lbs alfalfa timothy cubes and 1 lb of soy pellets.This is the only soy these two get. I am having the trimmer out on Fri and would like to make sure he is on the right track for Target's feet. The others are all ok right now, have had no issues with them except Libby in 2016 when she had laminitis very bad and it was suggested that I put her down. She has been good since then and I am riding her 6 days a week. I am just concerned about the high blood levels in all their tests. I have ordered the metformin but it is not here yet, maybe Mondy or Tues this week.
Kathie with Libby and Sweet P
Cobble Hill, BC, Canada
Aug 2018
Case Histories
Ω


HELP! BEHAVIORAL ISSUES

Kelly Schwartz <kelly@...>
 

My normally unflappable, bombproof mare has not been herself.

 

Riding Mia today, 2 miles into our ride, she pinned her ears at one of the geldings and kicked out at him. Ten minutes later she bucked while kicking out at another gelding. And ten minutes later while gaiting, she pawed the ground, then laid down. I scrambled off her and she got up and took off at a dead run, only to stop, turn around and return to me. We decided the ride was over at that point, returning to the trailer. I alternated walking and riding her, and she seemed her normal mellow self, trying to snag bites of grass along the way. I check her feet, no pain or issues there, no flank pain, nothing on the saddle pad to cause pain, no sign of colic.

 

Ten days ago, I contacted the local vet because both she has been slightly off in recent months, more anxious, more hormonal and horny during her cycle and slightly pissy towards other horses. I asked if it could be the pergolide which she has been on since mid August. He suggested I give her magnesium specifically Quiessence and she’s been on it a week.

 

I joined this group in May, quite distressed about Mia’s recurring laminitis during Winter and Spring. Following some tests (all on the case history form) Dr Kellon recommended Estradoil and Mia has been on 4 mg daily since May.

My questions include:

                        Should I take her off the Estradoil or reduce it?

                        Should she be taken of the estradiol and repeat the hormone tests in 30 days?

                        My local vet will be out sometime in the next few weeks to repeat the ACTH test, should other blood test be done?

 

I don’t feel comfortable riding Mia with others until I find and fix what is causing these behavioral issues. I’m hoping this group can help me figure it out.

 

Thank you so much!

 

Kelly and Mia

Jamestown TN (formerly WY)

May 2018

 

 


--
Kelly and Mia
Dubois, WY, USA
May 2018

Photos
 
Case History


Re: Photos of hooves uploaded

 

Hi, Annette - that flakiness on the hoof wall is just normal periople. It usually gets rubbed off naturally, but at some times of the year (especially when it is wet out) it seems to last longer on the hoof. 

If she is comfy without boots, you can start leaving them off for more of the day, when she is on soft ground.  

It looks to me like your trimmer is doing a good job. You might make faster progress if you can move the trim interval to every 4 weeks instead of every 5 weeks.

Keep up the good work!
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
DDT+E = effective treatment for PPID and EMS/IR equines: https://bit.ly/2J4ZgYT

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=39711


Re: Tractor Supply Cattle Cubes ?

 

I wanted to add to Nancy's excellent advice: since these are made for cattle, the manufacturer will have no need to worry about monensin contamination that can easily occur. Monensin is deadly to horses, so one should avoid products made for cattle.
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
ECIR mod/support  https://bit.ly/2MlAtPd  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=39711


Re: Ongoing lameness - please help.

Pauline <takarri@...>
 

​Hi Monique,
 
I see that you are also feeding Speedy beet- so you could increase that amount instead of the chaff mix or use maxisoy instead. Both are designed to be softened with water​- so you can make it as "soupy" as he will tolerate.  Try your local Ag place for a hay corer ( Landmark/wefarmers or similar) and I can send you the forms/permits that you need.  The best/cheapest place to get hay tested is Equi-Analytical in the US. I can guide you through that process if needed.
--

Pauline

Geelong. Vic

Australia Aug 07

ECIR Mod/Primary Response

 

 Harry, Jack and Spur's Case Histories   


Re: Request for Lavinia's Mark Ups and Feedback

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Yes, the 5% would refer to the elevation of the coffin bone from front to back.

HOWEVER, that is part of the range of 3% - 5% that is generally found in healthy hooves. What is correct for any individual horse is going to be the angle that aligns the bony column correctly.

If the pads you have are a wedged pad then that would be compensating for the too-low height in the back half of the foot. The RF is more of an issue than the LF.

Use common sense with the riding. I wouldn't recommend hard riding but general work in wedged, padded boots should be fine if she isn't showing any signs of reluctance. Miles are what are going to help the feet remodel once the trim gets tweaked that last bit.

--
Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team


Re: Lily supplements

 

Hi, Kati - Great work so far with what you have been doing with Lily! That was a really severe founder, and she has a way to go, and a lot of hoof growth, before things are more normal. She will likely be blowing abscesses for a while, as well (just what you wanted to hear!)

I would keep her on the two full scoops of Laminox. Once you get ready to re-order, you can consider switching to jiaogulan powder from My Best Horse: http://mybesthorse.com/  That will help a little bit with your post-blood work depleted bank balance. http://mybesthorse.com/  

She is still in the very early stages of recovery, so I certainly wouldn't be thinking about building up muscle at this point. Also, since she seems to be feeling better, I wouldn't make any major changes to the feed. The Uckele Senior looks like a very good ration balancer, but I don't know what the ESC and starch values would be, so for now, I wouldn't chance it. https://uckele.com/equi-base-senior.html  

Is there any chance that you can get your hay tested? That would allow for the very best supplementation, as you can optimize the supplements to the hay.

Let us know when you get the blood results, and keep up the good work!
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
ECIR mod/support  https://bit.ly/2MlAtPd  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=39711


Re: Request for Lavinia's Mark Ups and Feedback

Sally Stults <jsstults@...>
 

I am starting to understand...thank you very much Nancy and Lavinia.  And thank you for the link to Paige Poss's page...most helpful. 

So to clarify, you are saying from front to back, the rear of the coffin bone should be elevated about 5 degrees when compared to the location of the front of the coffin bone?

Am I also picking up that I should refrain from riding Tabby, until the corrections are put in place on her trim and improvements made, in order to avoid an increased chance of injuries?  I ride her with Renegade boots with poured in pads in front, and barefoot in back.  She has never had a full blown case of laminitis, but likely subclinical (if that is the right description for the times in her past where she has been tender footed on hard ground).

Thank you!--
Sally 04/2013

Big Park, Arizona

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sally%20with%20Tabby%20and%20Maisie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photosearch?q=Sally+and+Tabby


Re: beet pulp

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 


Hello tbailey5463,

Welcome to the group! Sorry that your pony has foundered but glad that you have found us.

As promised, here is the Official Welcome letter.

This will likely seem like an overwhelming amount of information so store this post somewhere easy to locate so you can reference it as needed in the future. Please don't hesitate to ask any and all questions as they come as we're here to help.

The ECIR provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

In order to help you and your equine quickly and effectively, we need you to explain your equine's situation by following the instructions you were sent upon joining. Your completed case history form and ECIR Signature will save days of back and forth questions. If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. Follow the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up and then upload your case history. If you have any trouble, just post a message or email the case history group explaining specifically where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin, glucose and Leptin. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating". Knowing this helps to differentiate if a horse is IR "at baseline" or if an elevated ACTH is "driving" the insulin up. In Europe, substitute adiponectin for the leptin test.

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: IR is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine. If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for IR/PPID individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to IR/PPID equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

 

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

 

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

We ask all members to sign their first name, general location, date of joining and link to the case history and photo album every time they post. It helps us to find your info faster to answer your questions better. You can set up an automatic signature so you don't have to remember to do it. 

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.
If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you.


--
Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team


Re: Diabetic horse? Confused by lab work

 

Kathie, what exactly is that balancer? I looked at the Shar Kare site, and couldn't figure it out.  In your next post, could you please list everything that the horses are being fed?   It looks like the cranberry experiment was a bit of a bust, since the horses still have very high insulin, glucose, and triglycerides.  Something is driving those numbers, and it must be something in the diet.  In the case of the PPID horses, it could also be that their pergolide dose isn't high enough.

Dr. Kellon has given you very good advice about starting pergolide and metformin.
--
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin (over the bridge), Maggie, Gypsy, Ranger
BC 09
ECIR mod/support  https://bit.ly/2MlAtPd  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy .
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=34193.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=39711


Re: Desi day x-rays uploaded

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

Hi Bobbie,

Here's the link to the Photo album for Desi:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821

I've created a partial signature for you which includes this link so that whenever you post from now on it will automatically attach to your posts. If you would please add your general location to it, that would be very helpful.

Thanks for creating an album. From the radiographs in the album (thanks for adding those), the trim needs a lot of changes to become optimal. It is definitely a huge source of problems for her. All of Desi's toes are way too long and the heels are underrun, along with there being too much overall foot. Three of her coffin bones are sitting ground parallel, with a considerable amount of ringbone present on the LF, all the HPAs are severely broken back. The RF has a fairly good bony column alignment. In order to be able to provide some specific trim guidance, I'll need you to provide a full set of hoof photos:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/Hoof-Related-Photo-Instructions

Please take a look at that link as it gives you all the needed views and angles. As a heads-up, keeping the camera literally at ground level for dorsal and lateral shots, and having clean feet are the two biggest areas that people seem to have the greatest trouble with.

--
Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team

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