Re: Betty over the Bridge


So sorry, Marissa...
Annette and Alley
October 2018, Moscow, Idaho
Case History: .
Album:  .

Pergolide and Chasteberry


My mini horse is on 1mg of Pergolide daily.  Can Chasteberry be given in addition to the Pergolide?   I am trying to get her to start shedding.  Before she was diagnosed with PPID by this time she would be shedding a lot.  But not a speck is coming out.  I heard Chasteberry might help but don't know if I should give it in addition to the Pergolide.  I also don't know how much to give her daily or how long it might take to work if it's going to work.  Any info. would be appreciated.  I'm new at dealing with PPID.
Thank you very much,
Susan and Colleen in CT

July 2012

A couple things

Bobbie Day

I wanted to mention (again) that we had Desi’s LF re-done I sure would appreciate some input on our progress?
weve been slowly taking the heel down and leaving the sole completely alone on the right.
putting hoof Armor on a couple times weekly per PR’s suggestions.
Ive read of so many losses the last couple of months, I just want to reach out to all of you and express how very sorry I am. It’s hard to lose any of our beloved fur family members but I know how devastated I would be to lose my little Desi after I’ve worked so dang hard to do everything right . 
We lost my husband’s mare last year after ten days of treatment (colic) I just couldn’t make myself give up on her
but ultimately it was his (husband) decision and felt she had suffered enough and it was time to let her go. I was so angry, I just wanted her better. I lost my 35 year old gelding a couple years ago, and now realize we lost another horse from Cushing’s that was never correctly diagnosed. So I really appreciate the knowledge I’ve gained here. 
So my thoughts are with you all and I hope you’ll meet up again.
Thats what I’m hoping for 😊
Bobbie and Desi
Utah, Nov 2018

Re: Betty over the Bridge

Sandy Carr

Oh Marissa...

I've been a donkey owner for years.  First my big mammoth, Sirprize.  Then the standard rescue Pistol Pete.  They both taught me more about donkeys and life in general than any equine.

Remember wonderful memories, and lessons, will always remain.

Hugs from Washington state.


March 2017, Onalaska, WA, USA

Case History: . 

Re: Betty over the Bridge

Lorna Cane

Oh, Marissa , that was a tough one . You sure don't  need anyone to tell you that!
Those donkeys are a whole other kind of wonderful. And Bette was no exception to that.
She was so fortunate that you were her person.
My heart is heavy for you.


Lorna  in Kingston, Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator


Re: Ulcer help

Kirsten Rasmussen

When I read your post I was so impressed with everything that you ARE doing! 

My horse is a voracious eater too and he will finish his nightly allotment of 10lb hay in a single "nag bag" slow feeder net in 4 hours (!!!), then have nothing to eat for the next 10 hours...  So we just have to make it harder for them to gobble their hay!

I have started double-netting Shaku's hay.  He gets about 8 lbs overnight in the same "nag bag" hay net, which is then placed (well, more like forcefully stuffed!) inside a larger thick nylon mesh bag....I wish I had a photo but you can Google "nag bag" to see what it looks like, and the nylon mesh bag is just like the "Tough-1 Web Hay Slow Feeder" sold by State Line tack (mine is about 2' x 3', and has a hole size of 1.5").  I'm amazed that a horse can eat hay from this double net combination...but Shaku manages it! 
I also put out about 2lbs of his nightly hay in an easier single slow feed hay net, which he eats first, so he gets one full stomach right off the bat, then he spends the rest of the night pulling hay literally strand by strand from the 8lb double-net.

Not only does he still have some hay left in the double-net in the morning, he is noticeably less frantic for his breakfast hay!  In the morning I pull the out hay net off and let him finish what's left from overnight in the single hay net, and I put out a 4lb single hay net for the day since he doesn't eat as much in the day time. That's his 14lb allotment and he is never without hay, at least not for more than a few hours in the afternoon.

It really works so well, I wanted to share that idea with you in case you can try it too!   Not sure how you can change Allegro's daytime routine but maybe this will help with getting him through the night...which is half the battle! 

Kirsten Rasmussen
Kitimat, BC, Canada
January 2019

Shaku's Case History:  

Shaku's Photo Album:,,,20,1,0,0   

Betty over the Bridge

Dear Dr. Kellon, Lavinia, Bonnie and all the folks at ECIR,

Thank you all so much for your responses in regards to helping my
beloved Mammoth donkey, Betty. We had to put her to sleep on 2/6 due to
advanced myositis, which I think is called rhabdomyolysis,
(damage to the muscle cavity/capsule) caused by staying down too long
or from struggling. She was valiant in her efforts to live,
but was in renal failure and the vets said it was time.

We have learned so much from her and from you dear folks at ECIR.
(As my husband said, she was big-eared and big-hearted).
Your dedication to truth in research, the equines, and to us their care-givers
has been inspiring and comforting in times of loss like this.

My other equines have benefited greatly from what I have learned from you
and from Betty.  

With  A Thankful and Heavy Heart,

Marissa 09/18
Georgia USA

Footing recommendations for Star

If this should be in horsekeeping instead of here, let me know and I'll post it there.

Star is having round 3 with the same abscess, a white line gravel abscess that has caused some big problems that are still going on. I would like to cover the gravel outside the barn and path that she walks in and out on with something soon, to prevent future gravels til her white lines grow nice and tight. Talked to an old timer friend this morning who has battled white line gravel abscesses, and also has some farrier experience, and he suggested covering the gravel with ground pine chips, from landscaping cleanup, or cover with manure and bedding as an affordable option. He said to stay away from stone dust and sand, because the particles are too small and can work their way into the white line. For some reason he wasn't a fan of pea stone, perhaps due to expense?

What should I get? I was leaning toward pea stone if the stones are less risk for her white lines. I thought his pine chip idea sounded easy and affordable, but I was concerned about mold, like you find in bark mulch, when Star is so allergic to mold.

Thoughts and ideas?

Jan 2018, Hingham, WI
Star Case History
Star Photos

Re: Update and fine tuning the diet

Stefanie Delasandro <sdel4521@...>

Unfortunately a hay analysis is not likely anytime in the near future.  I can’t store enough hay to make it feasible.   She is getting 6 oz of flax for the anti-inflammatory effects for EPM.  I can increase that if needed.  

When I do the blood draw, should I trailer in or arrange for a farm visit?  Does it need to be fasting?
The new horse, Socks, is a QH and I’ve got my eyes on her being IR/PPID, and possibly PSSM, too.   Stall is a bit wet, ravenous appetite.  She was about 200 lbs under when we bought her but she gained it back quick on the same diet as Jewel and looks like she might need some cut back as she’s developed a small fat pad or two.  But, one horse at a time......

Stefanie D.
central TX
Jewel's Case History

Re: Updated Case History and New Xrays

Lavinia Fiscaletti

Hi Cheryl,

Thanks for adding the latest radiographs.

Nice job - kudos to your trimmer.

The bony column alignment is good, sole depth not quite there yet, sinking about the same. Toes are a bit too long so back them up a bit more, adding a good bevel to the bottom of the toe so the breakover gets set where the bony column needs it to be. No trimming of the soles. Be sure to use padded boots until her sole depth increases.

The remaining flaring in the bottom 1/3 of the walls can be eliminated at this point.

Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team

Updated Case History and New Xrays

Cheryl Oickle

Hi everyone.  As above I have updated Jewels history and hoof x  rays.  Could the moderators please assess the progression in the x rays when able?  Jewel is progressing well so far, pain free and has ALMOST a complete new hoof capsule.  I have started to ride her lightly again as I was given the go ahead by the vet and my barefoot trimmer.  I am excited with the successes thus far.  I value your feed back and suggestions.  This site has helped save my mare!
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018


Eleanor Kellon, VMD

P.S.  I would also consider using metformin . Fat metabolism is very different in horses vs humans but metformin also reduces fat accumulation in the human liver.
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001

Re: Pelleted hay balancer options?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

Is this for the hay with the analysis from last September? How much Stabul 1 do you feed?
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001


Eleanor Kellon, VMD

It's good that she is going to the hospital. She will need more monitoring than can easily be done on the farm. TG levels increase in pregnancy and TGs are easily mobilized in pregnant mares off feed so not surprising but the liver can be affected, as with hypertriglyceridemia/hyperlipemia in ponies and minis. This can be life threatening. The safest foods are high soluble fiber, low sugar/starch like soybean hulls, beet pulp. A lucerne meal slurry could be used but may aggravate insulin. Whey protein is safe as a protein source. Total and  ionized magnesium should be monitored and maintained well into normal range. She also probably needs fluids and electrolytes.

I'm sure they don't have to be told this but colic, placentitis and premature labor need to be ruled out.
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001



Thank you for your help. The main problem is that I am not the mare's owner so it's not on my hand, the owner has decided to send her to a hospital, they,ve tried to feed her by tube but it's not really working. Nonetheless, the access to this group will help me study and learn new concepts about laminitis. 


Maria Duran

Forgot to say thank you to Cindy Q who kindly told me I had been mentioned.

And if you are not already doing this,  I find of help feeding painful laminitic horses at chest level so that they don't need to put extra weight on their front hooves. Same for the water.
If she is laying down have two buckets with water and the food.
María Durán Navarro
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain) 

Re: Soaking hay and analysis

Maria Duran

Thank you so much for your answer Jaini.

Indeed his hoof wall was growing tight and suddently made a veeeery slight loop that called my attention, then the owner reported the horse wasn't as happy as he used and was a bit "lazy" she showed me a video and he was taking care of how he was stepping, mildly but he was doing it.

Blood test matches reallity for sure.

Yes we are in a drier season than ever for this time of the year and waiting for rain like a horse waits for his treats haha.

We are going to start soaking today and retest in a month.

Thank you so much for your help Jaini.

María Durán Navarro
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain) 


Maria Duran


I hope Dr. Kellon can redirect you in the pain management.

Stop all concentrates with cereals in it what is very common in Spain, stop oat hay if she is getting it and as Jaini said, only grass hay previously soaked for 1 hour in lots of water. 

I would add as much beet pulp as she can get up to 1/3 of her daily ration as this is going to help with the hyperlipidemia. You can use speedibeet from PAVO. Because beet pulp is not tasty, I would try to add a safe concentrate mixed with beet pulp so that she is willing to eat. Jaini, totally safe aproved concentrates doesn't exist here or at least I don't know about those because they all have alfalfa at more or less extent and added iron. These are the most "safe" that I know regarding sugar and starch content:

I would ask for Xrays to see what is happening inside her hooves and open the CH so that you can get advice here. She will hardly eat until pain is partially controlled in my experience.

Also I would add

And I would also add pics of her hooves to get advice on trimming as this sooooo important too.

As Jaini said don't starve her, vets here will say but if hyperlipidemia is a concern maybe feeding her by tube if she is not eating is an option?

Hope it is of some help.

María Durán Navarro
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain) 

Re: Maggie is over the Rainbow Bridge


Thank you all so much for your kind words. It really does help.
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin and Maggie (over the bridge), Gypsy, Ranger
ECIR mod/support, BC 09
DDT+E = effective treatment for PPID and EMS/IR equines: .

Re: jiaogulan


Hi, Kathie - the starting dose for cut-leaf product is 3 teaspoons twice daily; for powder is 1 - 2 teaspoons twice daily.   Here is a link to more information about jiaogulan:,%20Nitric%20Oxide%20Support,%20AAKG%20and%20Supps  

Sorry this got missed!
Jaini Clougher (BSc, BVSc)
Merlin and Maggie (over the bridge), Gypsy, Ranger
ECIR mod/support, BC 09
DDT+E = effective treatment for PPID and EMS/IR equines: .

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