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Hay supply from year to year.
jmc
I know weather and other factors will affect hay... but how much? I found a good hay supplier last year (finally) but wasn't able to test the hay until after delivery (7 tons). I expect the same issue this year... can I reasonably expect the same hay, from the same part of the same field (the edges of a certified hay field, which cannot be certified), will have similar values from year to year? --
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Free choice salt blocks
i do,supplement with table salt daily but sometimes Jewel snubs her nose at the carrier. I cannot find a block of white salt anywhere and locally it is all red blocks, or Redmond rock or himalyan salt, all contain iron. Could I toss a cobalt salt block in her pen with no worry?
-- Cheryl and Jewel Oct 2018 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063
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Hay analysis from Dairy one lab NYC
Von Schwen <vonschwen@...>
Hi!
Diet consist of grass hay, California trace, 1 tablespoon of salt and 1 1/2 ounces of ground flaxseed and probiotic 8–8starch is 1.6 and ESC is 5.6 so we’re good there-but I’m wondering about the trace minerals and the Protein and wondering if my mare should be on California trace plus instead of just California trace. Protein 10.3, calcium 0.35, phosphorus 0.16, magnesium 0.22, potassium 1.81, sodium 0.428 iron 230, zinc 13, copper 5 and Manganese 27. Thank you so much for helping with this🙏🏻! -- Von Schwen April 2019 USA
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Confirming IR status
We did new lab work on Skyler and confirmed his IR status again:
Glucose 88mg/dL Insulin 17.98 uIU/mL Glucose:Isulin ratio 4.89 Leptin 11.97 ng/mL RISQI = .24 MIRG = 8.5 How does one interpret the severity of IR? Heidi -- Heidi Wright joined Aug 15, 2018 5130 State Route 38 Malta, IL 60150 815-761-2341 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heidi%20and%20Skyler https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=69604
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Updated Xrays - Seeking feedback
I just uploaded xrays taken on 4/6/19 of Skyler's front feet. I apologize for the messy barium paste - I am going to use a different method next time so it's more clear.
I would greatly appreciate any trimming advice you have based on these. To me it looks like his heels could still come down a very tiny bit to get ideal bony column alignment. It's taken a long time to get the LF better because he would get sore quickly if I took more than a swipe or two. He is still in Stratus therapy boots, but is fully turned out now. I haven't tried moving him for a few weeks without boots on so am not sure how tender he is. I plan to investigate that again this weekend. -- Heidi Wright joined Aug 15, 2018 5130 State Route 38 Malta, IL 60150 815-761-2341 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heidi%20and%20Skyler https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=69604
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Re: Lily has pain in right foot
Lily's ACTH and insulin are both positive. Shedding changes occur late in PPID. The lab reference range is not "normal". It's observed values +/- two statistical standard deviations and in horses on all sorts of diets. A normal QH would have to eat a big meal of sweet feed to get an insulin that high. That doesn't explain why she's sore now though unless her diet has changed. Possibilities include abscesses, pain from increased activity because her trim is not correctly aligned and is tearing her laminae or causing pain elsewhere.
We need current hoof photos. - Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com
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Re: Lily has pain in right foot
Hi Kati,
I'm sorry Lily is in trouble. Can you update her case history,so we can help you get this figured out for her? Don't forget to enter the blood test results,too. -- Lorna in Kingston, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Daisee's Recovery
debbiearledge@...
Yes, that is absolutely true! Even though she was feeling great, I continued to wrap her legs up, have her wear boots, blankets etc.
-- Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee Richardson, TX https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee
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Lily has pain in right foot
Kati Indigo
Since Lily's onset of laminitis in late July 2018 she's had an amazing recovery. 6 weeks ago she even started to trot & even gallop in her 30×50 padded stall on soft ground. Our trimmer comes every 4 weeks & is happy with her progress, especially the way her hoof walls are growing out.
We had tested her for insulin & Cushing's in fall. She was borderline Cushings but as she has been shedding a lot & seems asymptomatic otherwise we think she is probably normal. She didn't test positive on IR. With her increasing improvement we started letting her out of her stall/run. But in the last 2 weeks she seems increased in pain of her right foot which was the "better" one when she had the laminitis onset. She doesn't want to go out. She will move with halter on & moves around a little in her stall but the last few days she's stretched her hind legs backward & her front legs forward & also shifts weight on her front legs. But she still stands a lot rather than laying down excessively as she did for 2-3 months when laminitis was acute. No changes in her diet. Is it maybe just another abscess. Any thoughts? Thank you! -- Kati and Lily in Arizona member since October 2018 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/filessearch?q=kati+and+lily https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=77277
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Re: Worming ppid horses
Both horses on dry lots. Some occasional grazing for the fresian. Jesse gets to sniff some grass when being turned out and it is on his path
today i received the 10#pail of strongid c from ebay winning bid at 22.99. -- for some strange reason, it came from smartpak. LJ Friedman Nov 2014 San Diego, CA Jesse's Case History
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Re: Updated H/P and lab reports for review
celestinefarm
Vicky, can you fill hay bags yourself with the proper amount of hay and leave them ready for the staff to hang for him?
-- Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary Saline, MI 2003
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Re: Acceptable Range for DE in Hay
Maybe this is of some help:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/30774353#233680 I have an experience with the horse in my CH. The only single change we did in his diet (no exercise changes or others) was that we stopped soaking the hay. He began to gain weight and be foot sore despite the hay was under 10% S/S, so that was the reason why I asked that question. The numbers in that question wasn't real but an example. After soaking again in just a week we noticed he was starting to lose weight again and foot confort was improved just in 4 days. I suspect that for some horses insulin levels even not too high ones as in this case, play a strong metabolic roll. In my humble opinion ideal DE depends on what the horse needs. If overweight and glutton, better a lower DE but if the horse is thin, better a higher DE. It is difficult that you can find all the perfect values you are looking for in one available hay so at the end you balance here and there to make it suitable for the horse. -- María Durán Navarro Dec 2017 Madrid (Spain) Plutón´s Case History Plutón´s Photo Album _._,_._,_
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Re: Need Advise on Next Steps to Take to Prevent Laminitis, Help Determine if PPID, IR or both, Potential Feed Change, Muzzles, Thyro-L, etc...
celestinefarm
Also, here is the file listing of acceptable ration balancers. They aren't as precise as having hay analyzed and a custom balancer created, but for those who do not have a long term consistent hay supply, they are an excellent choice.
I am unaware of any of them being sold in TSC, but it's not impossible. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/5%20Core%20Diet/Acceptable%20Ration%20Balancers.pdf -- Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary Saline, MI 2003
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Re: Need Advise on Next Steps to Take to Prevent Laminitis, Help Determine if PPID, IR or both, Potential Feed Change, Muzzles, Thyro-L, etc...
celestinefarm
Lesley, soy per se is not something to avoid. What you want to avoid is soybean meal , which is ground soybeans. It has an average sugar and starch level of 12% and can also raise , depending on how much a feed contains, the protein content of a feed much higher than what is needed in the typical pleasure horse.
-- Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary Saline, MI 2003
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Re: New Pics and X-rays uploaded for Plutón.
Thank you so much Dr. Kellon.
-- María Durán Navarro Dec 2017 Madrid (Spain) Plutón´s Case History Plutón´s Photo Album _._,_._,_
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Re: Acceptable Range for DE in Hay
On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 07:45 AM, Kirsten Rasmussen wrote:
Is there any information on how much DE is reduced when soaking hay (1 hr cold)? I've heard up to 30% of the sugars can be soaked out, but how does this impact DE of the soaked hay? I've been wondering if I should feed a little more hay when soaking to keep caloric intake the same, and if so how much more would be a reasonable guess?Hi Kirsten, The total Digestible Energy is from carbohydrates, protein and fat, so I don't know if there is a way to know how much of a change when just the ESC is reduced by soaking. If Shaku is an easy keeper, you can try the same amount of soaked hay and just monitor him. You can check weight changes with a weight tape once or twice a month, as well as do a body score evaluation. If he starts to get ribby, you can increase the hay and monitor him. Keep in mind that uncontrolled PPID will also make them ribby, even if you increase the caloric intake. -- Paula with Cory (IR & PPID?) and Onyx (IR/PPID) and Remy (ir/PPID) Bucks County, PA, USA ECIR Primary Response NRCplus 2011 ECIR 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Paula%20and%20Cory https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1624 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Paula%20and%20Onyx
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Re: New Pics and X-rays uploaded for Plutón.
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Need Advise on Next Steps to Take to Prevent Laminitis, Help Determine if PPID, IR or both, Potential Feed Change, Muzzles, Thyro-L, etc...
llynch200@...
Hello,
Based on the latest vet advice, I am scrambling to figure what to do to prevent laminitis and get my horse's weight down. He has never had an acute flare of laminitis, but he also has never been overweight in the Spring. The average horse owner doesn't think he looks overweight. But he has fat pockets behind his shoulders, a deep crease on his rump between croup and tail, and cresty lumps on neck. His neck is not a pronounced curve so most people would not notice it. I am so happy to have found your site as I have had differing opinions about what to do for my horse. Unfortunately, there is no place to move him at my current barn although I see one area they could turn into an easy keeper paddock/pasture but would require additional fencing. They have an area for easy keeper mares but seem unwilling to do anything for the geldings. He has gotten the first muzzle off twice so I am going today to try another brand. I haven't loaded pictures yet but didn't want to delay with the case history. I will take some pictures today to upload as soon as I figure out how. I also had a question about a feed/ration balancer mentioned as safe in your info. I will have to look up the name but it is sold at Tractor Supply. It has soy in it but soy was listed on things to avoid in your information. Your help in very much appreciated! Thank you, -- Lesley April 2019, Charlotte, NC Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lesley%20and%20Black%20Jack .
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Re: Hay questions - Soaking and fermentation in the hot/humid summer
Diana RL
No worries. Thanks for the quick response. I am sorry and realize I was not clear. I soak for 20-30 mins, then let it drain/dry overnight. I don't leave it in the water the whole time. I will read through the info. Thanks! Also, here are the results of my hay analysis. Which numbers should I be looking at and what are the ranges safe for an IR horse? Sample 1 as sampled: WSC: 2.3 ESC: .5 Starch: .5 NFC: 8.9 Sample 2 as sampled: WSC: 6.6 ESC: 5.4 Starch: .7 NFC: 16.3 Thanks again!
On Tue, Apr 16, 2019, 10:48 AM Candice via Groups.Io <Candicepiraino=mac.com@groups.io> wrote: Diana, --
Diana and Scooter Jan 2019 PA https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Scooter%20-%20Case%20History
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Re: New Pics and X-rays uploaded for Plutón.
THANK YOU SO MUCH Dr. Kellon,
Would you please explain me this last question? I am concerned about the new palmar angle he is growing. I copy it here again so that it is easier for you. Sorry to ask again but if possible I would like to make sure I understand what we are doing. "If I am not wrong, a healthy palmar angle is about a 5%. Plutón´s new palmar angle has increased to more than that, do I have to assume that his natural healthy palmar angle is greater than 5% in order to have P1, P2 and P3 aligned?" Thanks a lot. - María Durán Navarro Dec 2017 Madrid (Spain) Plutón´s Case History Plutón´s Photo Album _._,_._,_
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