Date   

Re: Can cooking flavors be given to horses?

Theresa Schroeder
 

Thanks Lynn, I looked into Beet E Bites but they are a little too rich for my wallet and I'm not convinced peppermint holds enough interest for him. He never takes the same thing twice and that included peppermint.

I tried prunes and he spit it out (no pill in it yet). 
--
Theresa Joined 12/11/18 from Kansas

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Theresa%20and%20Twister

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=80189&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0  .


Re: New Pics and X-rays uploaded for Plutón.

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

The 5% angle is an average number, not a "gold standard". It gives you an idea of what is generally found. Using specific, preset angles, toe lengths, heel heights without taking into account what is actually happening with the individual you are assessing is one  of the ways people get into trouble with trims, esp. on feet that aren't healthy.

As Dr. Kellon said, it is the actual correct alignment of the bony column that tells you what is right for that particular individual

--
Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team


Re: need admins advice on ACTH results and continuing prascend or not

Paula Hancock
 

On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 02:49 AM, vicky monen wrote:
His insulin is a bit on the high end of normal.
Hi Vicky,
What is his insulin level on the last test?  I saw ACTH and glucose, but not the insulin. Is the urination frequency any different?  Definitely need to get the weight down.  He was doing so well in that regard.  With all the hair coat issues, it does suggest PPID.


 
--
Paula with Cory (IR & PPID?and Onyx (IR/PPID)

  and Remy (ir/PPID)

Bucks County, PA, USA

ECIR Primary Response

NRCplus 2011  ECIR 2014 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Paula%20and%20Cory

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1624

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Paula%20and%20Onyx
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Paula%20and%20Remy

 


Re: Can cooking flavors be given to horses?

Theresa Schroeder
 

Thanks Paula! I'll maybe be able to rotate through those flavors, if he likes them that is, Twister has become so suspicious he wouldn't even give the banana flavor food I made a try. His nickname is Twister Turd for a reason.
--
Theresa Joined 12/11/18 from Kansas

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Theresa%20and%20Twister

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=80189&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0  .


Re: Hay questions - Soaking and fermentation in the hot/humid summer

Paula Hancock
 

On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 04:47 AM, Diana RL wrote:
Also, here are the results of my hay analysis. 
Hi Diana,
ECIR recommends that ESC + starch equal less than 10%, although some horses need below 8% especially in crisis, and some horses need even lower.  Would you check the numbers for sample 1?  I have never seen ESC less than 5% and that one says 0.5%.
As for hay fermenting, yes it will.  I soak my hay for an hour in cold water in a 15 gallon tub, tip it to dump and let it drain for an hour or whatever time I have, and then shuffle through it to aerate it to prevent fermentation. I will shuffle the hay again at the next feeding and find it really helps avoid fermentation.  If you soak the hay in bags, it may be harder to shuffle, but you can see what you can do.  I found that heat was the main problem.  The high humidity didn't really make a difference.
 
--
Paula with Cory (IR & PPID?and Onyx (IR/PPID)

  and Remy (ir/PPID)

Bucks County, PA, USA

ECIR Primary Response

NRCplus 2011  ECIR 2014 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Paula%20and%20Cory

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1624

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Paula%20and%20Onyx
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Paula%20and%20Remy

 


Re: Hay supply from year to year.

celestinefarm
 

Jodi, that's been my experience. I have been buying hay from the same fields for ten years. While nutrient value stays within the same parameters close enough that I don't need to change my balancing much at all, what can change is the NDF. If you have a very late cutting due to weather constraints, the NDF will go up and make the hay less palatable. That can be a problem if you order well ahead of cutting and baling and are locked into a contract to buy.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History


Hay supply from year to year.

jmc
 

I know weather and other factors will affect hay... but how much?  I found a good hay supplier last year (finally) but wasn't able to test the hay until after delivery (7 tons). I expect the same issue this year... can I reasonably expect the same hay, from the same part of the same field (the edges of a certified hay field, which cannot be certified), will have similar values from year to year?

The analysis from last year's hay is in my files, the NSC was 10.5% and ESC +starch around 6.7%, if I remember correctly.

--
Jodi
June 2018
NW Wyoming

Yankee Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jodi%20and%20Yankee

Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=54386


Free choice salt blocks

Cheryl Oickle
 

i do,supplement with  table salt daily but sometimes Jewel snubs her nose at the carrier. I cannot find a block of white salt anywhere and locally it is all red blocks, or Redmond rock or himalyan salt,  all contain iron.  Could I toss a cobalt salt block in her pen with no worry?
--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063


Hay analysis from Dairy one lab NYC

Von Schwen <vonschwen@...>
 

Hi!
 Diet consist of grass hay, California trace, 1 tablespoon of salt and 1 1/2 ounces of ground flaxseed and probiotic 8–8starch is 1.6 and ESC is 5.6 so we’re good there-but I’m wondering about the trace minerals and the Protein  and wondering if my mare should be on California trace plus instead of just California trace. Protein 10.3, calcium 0.35, phosphorus 0.16, magnesium 0.22, potassium 1.81, sodium 0.428 iron 230, zinc 13, copper 5 and Manganese 27. Thank you so much for helping with this🙏🏻!
--
Von Schwen
April 2019
USA


Confirming IR status

Heidi Wright
 

We did new lab work on Skyler and confirmed his IR status again:

Glucose 88mg/dL
Insulin 17.98 uIU/mL
Glucose:Isulin ratio  4.89
Leptin  11.97 ng/mL
RISQI = .24
MIRG = 8.5

How does one interpret the severity of IR?  

Heidi
--
Heidi Wright
joined Aug 15, 2018
5130 State Route 38
Malta, IL  60150
815-761-2341

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heidi%20and%20Skyler 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=69604


Updated Xrays - Seeking feedback

Heidi Wright
 

I just uploaded xrays taken on 4/6/19 of Skyler's front feet.  I apologize for the messy barium paste - I am going to use a different method next time so it's more clear.

I would greatly appreciate any trimming advice you have based on these.  To me it looks like his heels could still come down a very tiny bit to get ideal bony column alignment.  It's taken a long time to get the LF better because he would get sore quickly if I took more than a swipe or two.  He is still in Stratus therapy boots, but is fully turned out now.  I haven't tried moving him for a few weeks without boots on so am not sure how tender he is.  I plan to investigate that again this weekend.

--
Heidi Wright
joined Aug 15, 2018
5130 State Route 38
Malta, IL  60150
815-761-2341

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heidi%20and%20Skyler 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=69604


Re: Lily has pain in right foot

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Lily's ACTH and insulin are both positive. Shedding changes occur late in PPID. The lab reference range is not "normal". It's observed values +/- two statistical standard deviations and in horses on all sorts of diets. A normal QH would have to eat a big meal of sweet feed to get an insulin that high. That doesn't explain why she's sore now though unless her diet has changed.  Possibilities include abscesses, pain from increased activity because her trim is not correctly aligned and is tearing her laminae or causing pain elsewhere.

We need current hoof photos.

-
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Lily has pain in right foot

Lorna Cane
 
Edited

Hi  Kati,

I'm  sorry Lily is in trouble.

Can you update her case history,so we can help you get this figured out for her?
Don't  forget to enter the blood test results,too.


--

Lorna  in Kingston, Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator
2002
https://ecir.gro
ups.io/g/main/files/PPID%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories/Success%20Story%20%233%20-%20Lorna%20and%20Ollies%20Story.pdf


 


Re: Daisee's Recovery

debbiearledge@...
 

Yes, that is absolutely true!  Even though she was feeling great, I continued to wrap her legs up, have her wear boots, blankets etc. 
--

Debbie and Driving Miss Daisee
Dec 11-2018

Richardson, TX

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Driving%20Miss%20Daisee

Photos


Lily has pain in right foot

Kati Indigo
 

Since Lily's onset of laminitis in late July 2018 she's had an amazing recovery. 6 weeks ago she even started to trot & even gallop in her 30×50 padded stall on soft ground. Our trimmer comes every 4 weeks & is happy with her progress, especially the way her hoof walls are growing out.

We had tested her for insulin & Cushing's in fall. She was borderline Cushings but as she has been shedding a lot & seems asymptomatic otherwise we think she is probably normal. She didn't test positive on IR.

With her increasing improvement we started letting her out of her stall/run. But in the last 2 weeks she seems increased in pain of her right foot which was the "better" one when she had the laminitis onset. She doesn't want to go out. She will move with halter on & moves around a little in her stall but the last few days she's stretched her hind legs backward & her front legs forward & also shifts weight on her front legs. But she still stands a lot rather than laying down excessively as she did for 2-3 months when laminitis was acute.

No changes in her diet. Is it maybe just another abscess. Any thoughts? Thank you!
--
Kati and Lily in Arizona member since October 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/filessearch?q=kati+and+lily

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=77277


Re: Worming ppid horses

LJ Friedman
 

Both horses on dry lots. Some occasional grazing for the fresian.  Jesse gets to sniff some grass when being turned out and it is on his path
today i received the 10#pail of strongid c from ebay winning bid  at 22.99.  
-- for some strange reason, it came from smartpak. 
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014  San Diego, CA

Jesse's Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Updated H/P and lab reports for review

celestinefarm
 

Vicky, can you fill hay bags yourself with the proper amount of hay and leave them ready for the staff to hang for him?

--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History


Re: Acceptable Range for DE in Hay

Maria Duran
 

Maybe this is of some help:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/30774353#233680

I have an experience with the horse in my CH. The only single change we did in his diet (no exercise changes or others) was that we stopped soaking the hay. He began to gain weight and be foot sore despite the hay was under 10% S/S, so that was the reason why I asked that question. The numbers in that question wasn't real but an example.

After soaking again in just a week we noticed he was starting to lose weight again and foot confort was improved just in 4 days. I suspect that for some horses insulin levels even not too high ones as in this case, play a strong metabolic roll.

 In my humble opinion ideal DE depends on what the horse needs. If overweight and glutton, better a lower DE but if the horse is thin, better a higher DE. It is difficult that you can find all the perfect values you are looking for in one available hay so at the end you balance here and there to make it suitable for the horse.

--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album

_._,_._,_


Re: Need Advise on Next Steps to Take to Prevent Laminitis, Help Determine if PPID, IR or both, Potential Feed Change, Muzzles, Thyro-L, etc...

celestinefarm
 

Also, here is the file listing of acceptable ration balancers. They aren't as precise as having hay analyzed and a custom balancer created, but for those who do not have a long term consistent hay supply, they are an excellent choice.  
I am unaware of any of them being sold in TSC, but it's not impossible.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/5%20Core%20Diet/Acceptable%20Ration%20Balancers.pdf
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History


Re: Need Advise on Next Steps to Take to Prevent Laminitis, Help Determine if PPID, IR or both, Potential Feed Change, Muzzles, Thyro-L, etc...

celestinefarm
 

Lesley, soy per se is not something to avoid. What you want to avoid is soybean meal , which is ground soybeans. It has an average sugar and starch level of 12% and can also raise , depending on how much a feed contains, the protein content of a feed much higher than what is needed in the typical pleasure horse.

--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

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