Date   

Re: Foundering !!! Need help !!!

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Successnow4you,

I'm sorry,I don't, but hopefully other members will be able to help.

But tell us more,so that we can help in any way possible.
What is the situation? 
What is your name?
Where are you? State is fine.

You must be frantic , but if we had details we could likely help, even before vet and farrier suggestions are made.


--

Lorna  in Kingston, Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator
2002
https://ecir.gro
ups.io/g/main/files/PPID%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories/Success%20Story%20%233%20-%20Lorna%20and%20Ollies%20Story.pdf


 


Re: Pergilode- other tricks to administer

Amy
 

Are the Alfalfa pellets ok for an IR horse?  Currently I'm giving 1/3 of a baby carrot with a hole drilled in with the pil . I know carrots aren't good for him but I figure the benefit of the pill outweighs the bad of a very small piece of carrot. It's all he will eat at the moment besides hay.  He wont eat any type of Stabul 1 or their treats. I still can't decide if it's his IR, cushings or something else.  Teeth seem fine but I wonder. Floated last fall, usually once a year. No fighting of the bit, no smell or nasal discharge.   After the bloodwork comes in, we may need to further investigate his teet . Seems a tad better but still more disinterested or lethargic than normal.  Baffling for sur . Felt like I had a good handle on this.  Usually when he wont eat grain/treats it's due to needing his pill increased
  Didn't work this time.  So wish they could tell us what they need.  Lol. Ugh
Thanks 
--
- Amy 10-2016

Mooresville, Indiana 

Stormy, Case History, Photo Album

 


Test - please ignore.

 


Re: New Here- PPID but Compensated IR, High Responder Questions (Pasture, etc)

Melissa
 

Thank you! Can she have the Timothy balance cubes and beet pulp as basically the entirety of her forage ration? If using beet pulp should I balance Minerals differently?
Soon we are moving to VA and she will be put on a paddock paradise track system. It will be good to have before the fall grass comes. 

The no grass concept is definitely daunting especially since the whole herd is out 24/7. A learning curve. 
--
- Melissa

June 2019 Columbus, OH

Rydel Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Melissa%20and%20Rydel/2019-06-16%20Rydel%20Case%20History.pdf

Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91712


Re: Please send feed back on this hay analysis

Tanna
 

Cannot see your Case History but your message history shows that Jewel is pretty sensitive and has experienced problems with her feet. 

With Dry Matter converted to as fed this hay tests with ESC 10.76% and Starch 1.97%. = 12.73% combined.

I would concerned about feeding that unless you intend to soak. 😔

--
Tanna 

April 2019, (Yahoo Group member 2008)

Langley, BC, Canada

Tula Case History 
Hay Analysis I Hay Worksheet


Please send feed back on this hay analysis

Cheryl Oickle
 


Re: Still rinse Speedi beet?

 

Nancy,
Did you read Martha's post about all the work she does with the pellets. #236958   She suggest, and I agree, that soil is probably incorporated into the pellets and it takes some work to unlock that soil with its iron. Our obsession with soaking BP is NOT sugar content but iron content, and, secondarily, rehydrating the dried BP. The molasses is long gone after R/S/R, just to clarify, ESC testing at 1% or less as DM after cold water soaks. The key is to rinse very thoroughly after soaking

With Standlee BP shreds, the color of the soil is different from the brown color when the shreds stand in any water-- even well after they are completely R/S/R. When shreds are first rinsed, the water is distinct dark gray to black. After a complete R/S/R,  I suspect the brownish color of water is plant tannins leaching out of the shreds (like tea). It isn't molasses based on the analyzed ESC of 1% or less.

If you go to the Standlee website and search for beet pulp, you will find 3 pages of links to Standlee information about their beet pulp, such as this nugget: "Molasses is added to the beet pulp during the drying phase so it does not ferment." Also this after testing soaking: "It was noted that the majority of water was absorbed within the first 30 minutes of soaking, and we did not observe a significant advantage of soaking beet pulp for longer than 30 minutes." Also: "Standlee purchases beet pulp pellets and beet pulp shreds from our local commercial sugar factory." Standlee is located in Idaho.

--
Cass for Cayuse (PPID/IR) and Diamond (IR)
Sonoma County, Calif. Oct. '12

Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos


Foundering !!! Need help !!!

Successnow4you@...
 

Do you have any names of ferries/vets in the Upstate, NY or Pa area ?


Re: Still rinse Speedi beet?

 

Can I assume the same would be for BP pellets? I use the Standlee pellets and I have been rinsing in cold water...soaking in hot but never checked the temp..then rinsing in cold water now that our temps are hot. But every now and again when I run the soak water I haven't always let it get hot....I must be more diligent but just curious if it would translate the same for the pellets. I am still waiting for the mineral anaylysis to come back on my hay so Iron is a big unknown for me.

Thanks,

--
Nancy 
3/20/2018  Burkesville KY

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Akira


Re: Pergilode- other tricks to administer

 

I learned this trick here so it isn’t new but it works for me.  Logo gets a small handful of pergolide capsules (don’t ask, haha) so I put them into a feed bag with a few handfuls of Cavalor and he munches on that while the other horses get a single pergolide capsule which I stick in their mouths and follow with some sort of ‘chaser’.  The feed bag is then checked carefully for anything he missed.
--
Martha in Vermont
Logo, Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
July 2012

Logo's Case History: 
 


Re: Still rinse Speedi beet?

 

I’ve only used pellets so I have nothing to compare them to but I find that, as the pellet ‘unpacks’, it continues to release lots of dark brown, which I assume is iron.  (If it’s something else which does not need to be rinsed away, please advise.)  I rinse the pellets under running hot water until they begin to expand and then switch to brief soaks in fresh hot water.  Still very brown.  Even though it releases with soaking, it’s most likely surface iron which has become incorporated into the pellet in the process of pelletizing.  Switch to cool water rinses and then an overnight soak in cold water.  A few more cold water rinses and I’m ready to go.  I use a lingerie bag in a laundry sink.  Twice a week.  Seems like I might be able to save considerable time using Speedi Beet.  If cost becomes a factor, I might use it just to fill in when I get behind on pellet prep.

i really appreciate being a part of this discussion.  Thank you!
--
Martha in Vermont
Logo, Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
July 2012

Logo's Case History: 
 


Re: Blood Sample... was Re: What is Hemolysis? and Re: Glucose/Insulin and ACTH

Tanna
 

Sorry cannot edit but wanted to add that the blood sample was taken at 3pm on the 17th of April which was a Thursday before a holiday long weekend here in Canada (Friday through Monday). The sample was stored by my vet and shipped to Guelph on the 24th. Arrived at Cornell the following day. 

 
--
Tanna 

April 2019, (Yahoo Group member 2008)

Langley, BC, Canada

Tula Case History 
Hay Analysis I Hay Worksheet


Blood Sample... was Re: What is Hemolysis? and Re: Glucose/Insulin and ACTH

Tanna
 

Bringing up two previous posts as I am looking for clarification re: the impact of Hemolysis on ACTH and Insulin in particular. 

I recently received the physical copy of our recent blood test and just noted that the physical copy shows test results for lipemia, hemolysis and icterus which, according to search results, are an indication of sample quality. Lipemia was 14, icterus was 0 and hemolysis was "marked". The marked is obviously concerning now that I look at these figures but there were no notations about sample quality on this report and the important figures, ACTH, Leptin, Insulin and Glucose (very consistent with previous tests) don't scream messed up but I'm not sure if I should be worried.  

Test results were produced by Cornell (sent there for leptin) but the sample would have been sent to Guelph first as we are in Canada. When sent to Guelph first would they be testing insulin, glucose and ACTH there prior to sending the leptin to Cornell? Cornell was in receipt of "2 serum and 2 edta plasma" specimens. Specimen taken April 17, 2019, specimen received April 25, 2019. 

T4 (Thyroxine) was 0.924 (range 1 - 3 ug/dL). This seems low but my vet was not overly concerned. Search results suggests that Tula may require some more iodine in her diet. 

Thank you for your assistance and expertise as always. :) 

 

 Eleanor Kellon, VMD
04/07/09   

 

Mary,

With the combination of low glucose and high potassium it sounds like your sample sat too long before being processed and you had hemolysis (rupture of red cells), or hemolysis may have occurred during the sampling. This falsely lowers insulin:

http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/abstract/18/11/1423

and if it sat too long that also lowers the ACTH.

Sorry!

When other calls make it impossible for your vet to process the sample within an hour, you can try either asking him/her to bring a centrifuge along, or schedule your visit to be the last one of the day.

Eleanor
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001

 

 Eleanor Kellon, VMD
08/12/09   

 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "pegasus1927" <bigredpony@...> wrote:

Got Abby's results from Cornell yesterday and they say that protein was cancelled due to hemolysis. I/R, ACTH way off from May 09. In the process of updating her file and wondering if the hemolysis has anthing to do with it.
Hemolysis won't interfere or interact with the insulin and ACTH tests.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


--
Tanna 

April 2019, (Yahoo Group member 2008)

Langley, BC, Canada

Tula Case History 
Hay Analysis I Hay Worksheet


Re: Still rinse Speedi beet?

melshelton@...
 

Thanks for your reply Bonnie. My vet did X-rays and saw no pedal bone rotation so didn’t suggest any further testing. I have a fantastic farrier I’m working closely with my mare was overweight and out on too much pasture she showed signs of being foot sore when turning and in a Trott. 

I locked her in a sand yard and box with shavings and put her on the emergency diet. She has dropped weight and no longer foot sore. I’m just now thinking of my next steps feed and management wise. 
--
Melanie Shelton 
victoria Australia 
26/5/19


Re: Pergilode- other tricks to administer

Annette
 

Alley, my picky mare, will not eat anything wet or mushy. She will not eat apple, carrot, or food flavored with peppermint, sugar free syrup or other taste tempters. For her, it has to be pellets. I give her one Prascend tablet in a small handful of alfalfa pellets - her favorite pellet of the moment. I usually give a second small handful as a chaser.  I give it to her first, before her evening feed when she is a little hungry. Works so far...
--
Annette and Alley
October 2018, Moscow, Idaho
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Alley%20Case%20History.pages.pdf .
Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78421  .


Re: Still rinse Speedi beet?

 

Dawn,  I hope you didn't think I was arguing with your choice. I understand completely about the quality and scale issues you are dealing with. It would be worth it for me, too, if I were feeding BP to a herd. Feeding BP to a onesie, I can R/S/R 10 days' supply of BP shreds, refrigerate a few bags and freeze the rest with the same effort it takes to process Speedi Beet except I soak longer in cold water while I go about my barn chores.

I tried Speedi Beet because I read somewhere here that a member analyzed the iron somewhere in the range of 100-200 ppm, and I am always looking to reduce iron in Cayuse's diet. It didn't turn out that way for me, and I rinsed it to a fare the well. 

Knock wood, Standlee BP Shreds have been consistent and decent quality so far.  
--
Cass for Cayuse (PPID/IR) and Diamond (IR)
Sonoma County, Calif. Oct. '12

Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos


Re: Still rinse Speedi beet?

 

I know beet pulp is economical and safe but the effort to prepare it seems to be too time consuming. I've never had a horse that would eat beet pulp! I tried it on several endurance horses and they always turned their noses up at it. I use an alternative feed for my IR horse.
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: Still rinse Speedi beet?

 

Bonnie, I agree completely that rinsing washes iron away in the R/S/R process. The point I was trying to make, and not clearly enough, is that it takes hot water to release the maximum amount of   soil that is on or in the  Speedi Beet. That hot soak is essential to get the maximum benefit.

Speedi Beet is a micronized BP which is pressed or processed into a flaked product that looks like bigger grey corn flakes. After contact with water, Speedi Beet breaks down into a granular consistency. Interestingly, though, getting it wet, rinsing it extensively and soaking it cold water, even for an hour after it's broken down into granules, doesn't release all the iron that can be rinsed away by a brief 10 minute soak in very hot water. Cold water rinsing and soaking, iron was 398 ppm.  Cold water rinsing and hot soaking, iron was 311 ppm.

BP shreds harbor dirt on the shreds, which are highly irregular in shape. Extensive rinsing before soaking releases most of the dirt. I'm basing that opinion on the color of the rinse water, the color of the soak water, and the amount of grit left in my white plastic utility sink. I received analyses of roughly the same iron content in R/S/R BP shreds, whether soaked in hot or cold water: about 387 ppm as DM. Water temperature of the soak didn't make the slightest difference.

I hope this is clearer.
--
Cass for Cayuse (PPID/IR) and Diamond (IR)
Sonoma County, Calif. Oct. '12

Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos


Re: Several Questions About Laminitis

J Foust
 

Just uploaded white line photos both fronts. 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91706
--
Joella Foust 
Montana
2015


Re: Pergilode- other tricks to administer

 

My horse readily sucks down his pergolide from a syringe because it is mixed into a small amount of Cocosoya oil. 
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album

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