Wonderful news!!!!! I am so happy for you and Blessing.
--
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619

Hi Helen!

Great job on your successes with Blessing! I hope it continues for you and gets easier. I am glad you have persevered through it, which it can be so frustrating at times since all you want to do is help your horse!
--

~ Candice 

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Candice%20and%20Shark

Shark's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71507 

 

This happened to me once and the wrong horse who ate the 10mg pergolide basically acted like he had the pergolide veil.  He is still alive and well.
--
Jean and Amber (over the bridge)

 

South Carolina

August 2004

NRCPlus 0412; CIR 0813, 1211; NAT 0612

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Gloria%20and%20Amber

Blessing is now taking her CP via syringe, and getting most of it in her mouth! Thank you to everyone who commented with helpful tips and info. Each day it gets easier for both of us, though the first two nights it looked like I'd had a front row seat at a Gallagher watermelon smashing performance.

Three tips I've picked up through this experience: 1. A deep, calming breath helps the horse relax while you hold the halter. 2. Break the steps down into lots of little successes and release your hold on the halter at each success so she gets a reward. 3. When she relaxes, she'll lick and chew; take advantage of the opportunity and insert the syringe quickly and get out.
--
Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID)
Scappoose, OR
Member since May 2017
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing
Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847

Hi Sharon,
First, I would alert my vet that the wrong horse had been dosed with pergolide, so they are available if you need them. Probably the biggest thing you will notice with the horse will be either drowsiness or hyper excited. One of the reason's pergolide was/is one the substance control list for the USEF is due to the possibility of competitors using it as a stimulant for horses in competition. So if the horse in question is younger, fit , etc. you might see them really full of themselves. 
There isn't anything you can do that I am aware of at this point, just make sure the horse is in a safe environment relative to what it is showing physical wise and call your vet if it shows any signs of colic, panic, etc. I doubt ANY of those symptoms will occur, but you will need your vet to treat if they do. 

Take a deep breath. I think this has happened to other's on the list and things turned out ok.


--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .

You could put them in a dehydrator rather than the oven to keep the temp down. It will take longer, but with the lower temp you'll know for sure your aren't damaging any of the goodness.
--
Trisha 
North central Washington state
Joined Nov 3, 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dancer%20and%20Trisha

The wrong horse got the pergolid! Can someone advice me on what to do? It is 16mg compounded.
OMG

Sharon

Cushing/IR 05

NRC+11/08

NAT 2/09

CIR12/09

DEW 08/10

COH 04/11

BRR 2015

AAL 2015

 

Sharon

E TN

2005

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Sharon%20and%20BLAZE

PS....Since she has just started Prascend, I'd wait for two-three weeks from starting to (re)test ACTH, etc.

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA

Hi Jane

Good job.  First admin stuff, then help with possible next steps for Hailey.

Here is the link to your Case History
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Hailey%20Case%20History%202019.pdf

Next step is to, create a folder for it and put that link in your auto signature. Go here https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files
 
Look for NEW FOLDER in upper left-hand corner. Click on that and name your folder Jane and Hailey. Load your CH into that.  Click on the folder URL  to highlight and copy, then paste into your auto signature here. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/member/181911?p=,,,100,0,0,0::joined,members,Jane+Beyer,100,2,0,181911

Don't forget to hit save.

You can then load your hay analysis .pdf into this folder so volunteers can comment and an ECIR Group diet balancer can find it.  Just heads up, what we want to see is ESC (simple sugar) and Starch.  Not worried about NSC, NFC or WSC.

When you have them, you can load your rad .jpgs here https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photos
Look for NEW ALBUM button in upper left corner. Again, name it Jane and Bailey.

Because she appears to be still laminitic, I would be testing ACTH now to make sure you have good control. I would also check Insulin and glucose (and leptin if in the budget) to see if the PPID is driving high insulin. In a perfect world, you want them both controlled now through at least the end of this month and into October. If uncontrolled, I'd want her pergolide raised now.

To get get help with balancing her diet, you can see this list of Kellon-approved diet balancers. The fees vary. 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing/3.%20Getting%20Help%20with%20Mineral%20Balancing.pdf

If you have taken Dr Kellon's NRC Plus course, you may have most of this done already.

If she is not having it with beet pulp, you can try other carriers like Triple Crown Naturals Timothy Balance aka Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance Cubes.
https://www.triplecrownfeed.com/products/timothy-balance-cubes/

Or Nuzu Stabul 1
http://stabul1.com/

There are also other flavor enhancer ideas listed here in Picky Eaters checklist.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/9b%20Pulling%20it%20Together/Picky%20Eaters%20Checklist.pdf

Hang in there.

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA

On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 03:59 AM, Debra wrote:

How do I determine the med-lateral imbalance and whether the high is "right" or the "low" is right?

Take pictures, pictures and more pictures. Dorsal and heels.  From the dorsal angle look up the leg. Lavinia only needs a few really good ones to be able to tell what may be going on.  You and your trimmer will learn immensely from taking and reviewing many, many. 

Out of sorts body-wise can start or be hugely impacted by unbalanced feet. It is not an uncommon problem.
 
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA

-- I have completed the case History this morning.  I am waiting for xrays from the vet.  They showed laminitis seperation at the top of the hoof.  We  started prascend on 8/26.  So she has been on it and in dry lot with about 18 # of hay in nets. I got the hay tested three weeks ago,  before the laminitis was evident to me.  The NFS was good at 8.3.  But the molebdynum and manganese are preventing me from balancing the cu/zinc.  I need help. Balancing the hay.  Although she has quit eating her bp and current minerals.  I keep adjusting  the minerals to the bare minimum to see if she will start getting the salt and magnesium and flax at the least.
The Vet and I thought to test for PPID in December.  I have already  shown her Dr. KELLONS  test protocol and she seems on board.

Jane and Hailey
Returning member 2007
Marquette, MI

Hi Lavinia,

All new photos uploaded, wish I had some sort of laser cross-hairs device. I swear I'm (I think I am) shooting these straight on but then when I get home and load them so many seem misaligned. Did the best I could :-)

Toe wall on RF broke off at the abscess line, now I just need to keep it back and get 4:00-8:00 back/matched/oval (?) Feel in general that I'm going in the right direction but need to be more aggressive with the toes.  I'm not trimming, only rasping (weekly). 

How do I determine the med-lateral imbalance and whether the high is "right" or the "low" is right? That darn LF is the one she toes-out on and lands laterally which seems to be causing the wall on the lateral side to be crushed/roll under...and it's been doing that for a long time. Perhaps body work. When I got her she was really out of sorts body-wise. Poor thing couldn't canter properly (always cross cantering) that resolved over a period of a year. Tried chiropractic but the person wasn't able to do much b/c Sierra's so distrustful (was...is getting better).

For what it's worth she doesn't seem to be off (lame)...was there for a few weeks ... still tender footed on hard ground. Working on trying out some suitable work boots on her.
--
Debra Doerfler
San Marcos (San Diego County), California
Lady Sierra Snarf n' Snort AKA "Sierra"
2009 TB rescue mare, adopted 2017
Member since March 2019
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debra%20and%20Sierra

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91011

Thanks Tanna. I am going tomorrow to see how he is doing...if he is still sore I'm going to share the information from Dr. K and you with my farrier and ask him what he thinks. I do ride Relevante in Cavallo Trek boots and the thicker cushion pads they offer. Once we warmed up i was kind of letting him set the pace within reason but we may just need to go slower [whether he wants to or not LOL].
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω

Hi Lynn

Not sure if it may help but two thoughts. I've had one vet who said very hard feet don't have as much give and can present with soreness over tough terrain. Or perhaps you have frog and sole shedding some, it's that time of year, and he is feeling the effects as his soles were already on the thinner side? 


--
Tanna 

April 2019, (Yahoo Group member 2008)
Langley, BC, Canada

Tula's Case History 

I have a question about flaxseed cookies. 
Both my horses dislike ground flaxseed in their feed. I suspect it is the slimy texture. Usually I give them whole seeds and add a bit more than if I was feeding it ground. I don't use flaxseed oil as it is not practical in my management situation, and also Dangles scours on any kind of oil. 
I want to increase Indy's flaxseed before summer in conjunction with chondroitin sulfate as she tends to get skin issues in the heat. 

Recently I made up a batch of flaxseed cookies, based on the many ECIR recipes that people have generously shared plus a recipe that a vegan friend gave me for human crackers--soak the flaxseeds for 15 min, add a little nonsweetened apple sauce, salt, half a cup of psyllium husks, mix well. I added a few drops of peppermint oil and a shake of cinnamon. Spread very thinly and bake for an hour or so in a slow oven.
Both horses love these cookies. 
I was wondering if the heat of cooking destroys all the beneficial qualities of the flaxseed in terms of anti-inflamatory properties?
I'll keep baking the cookies as I am always trying to get more salt into them and the cookies keep better than other treats such as carrot slivers and celery, but I'd like to know if they can substitute for at least some of the flaxseed in their buckets. 

--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 

Hi Dr. Kellon,
I was following the "reconditioning the senior horse" where you warm up at walk for 15 minutes then do intervals [10 to 15 minutes of gaiting before going back to walk]. I did that for maybe 45 minutes to an hour. Maybe i just need to walk him only and for longer distances since we can go outside now with his boots. I do have pads in the boots. I also posted photos of the trim Friday. They are not great because it was very overcast and i didn't want to keep him standing any longer since the trim took a while. My farrier hasn't taken anything off the soles since we started corrective trims in April 2018. We are now working to move the heels back per markups from a consult with Lavinia. I'm going out tomorrow to check him again so I'll see how he is. Thanks for your insight..I didn't consider that because he didn't show any distress/soreness during work. You pointed me to a new way of "listening."
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω

Unless he's showing his signs of topline loss and poor abdominal tone again it's less likely this is metabolic. Have to consider it could be related to resuming exercise, possibly doing too much. His sole depth wasn't the greatest in the last films.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

When the farrier came to trim Relevante Friday he was quite footsore (actually rocking back) when his front foot was lifted up. This is the first time I observed this. Last week I was riding him and he was fine. It took quite a while to get the trim done but my farrier was very patient and gave him breaks and tried holding his feet different ways at different heights to find the most comfortable position. I went back yesterday. He wasn't nearly as sore but sore enough i did not ride him. When i got there he was out in his paddock and while i was there he went in and out at will. I double checked the hay he is eating - it's been tested. Hay was just recently balanced so supplements are correct. i doubled checked his paddock...resprayed with vinegar...though i only saw a couple tiny sprouts walking as a grid. Also checked the fencing i put up on the inside of his fencing to keep him from sticking his head through. i had the bottom pulled in a certain way so i could tell if he was pushing on it trying to get grass. He was not. He has no other symptoms. Crest is practically non-existant, no fat pads above the eyes or elsewhere, no swollen sheath. Since it's in both fronts i wouldn't think abcess. The farrier also commented on how much harder his feet are getting (due to good nutrition in terms of supplements?) I have not ridden without boots on all four feet. The only thing i saw that was different was this. As i came through his stall door i saw a couple leaves from the two nearby trees had blown into his paddock and he ate one before i could do anything....should i continue to monitor him and see if it resolves or should i take stronger measures (like up his Pergolide slightly which i don't want to do unless there is no other option). Thanks!
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω

On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 11:45 AM, Nancy C wrote:

This being the seasonal rise in the northern hemisphere, and given (his? her?) possible age, it is very likely PPID is involved if that is where you are located.  If so, recommend testing for ACTH.

I want to emphasize this comment from Nancy. Early PPID and an exaggerated seasonal rise in ACTH resulting in laminitis is often the very first sign of PPID (Cushing's). This is not influenced by diet. Please arrange testing for your horse.
 
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Hi Jane.

Welcome back.  Sorry you have to be here.

Going to send you instructions on how to set up a Case History folder, where you can put your hay analysis and provide current info for Hailey and also how to set up your auto-signature so you never have to type that in again. Please look for these two emails in your spam box.

This being the seasonal rise in the northern hemisphere, and given (his? her?) possible age, it is very likely PPID is involved if that is where you are located.  If so, recommend testing for ACTH.

You can view Dr Kellon in the short ECIR film discussing testing and diagnosis here:

https://www.ecirhorse.org/video.php

And read info here:

https://www.ecirhorse.org/DDT+E-diagnosis.php

Again, glad you are back. Here's to getting Hailey back on track.

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA