Triple crown feeds

Bobbie Day

i am making a trip for feed tomorrow and was hoping to get some TC naturals cubes that are on the safe list but Murdock’s only seem to carry the TC Low Starch bagged feed.
here are the guaranteed analysis?
it does seem to have more protein, has anyone tried , or know anything about it?
sadly no one in my area seems to have IR/Cushing friendly feeds.
i have to travel a hundred miles to get beet pulp I was hoping to be able to get some feed as well but we may have to stick with BP. 

Crude Protein (min.) 13.00%, Zinc (min.) 170 ppm, Lysine (min.) 0.70%, Manganese (min.) 100 ppm, Methionine 0.20%, Copper (min.) 50 ppm, Threonine (min.) 0.35%, Vitamin A (min.) 6,000 IU/lb, Crude Fat (min.) 6.00%, Vitamin D (min.) 500 IU/lb, Crude Fiber (max.) 18.00%, Vitamin E (min.) 200 IU/lb, Calcium (min.) 0.75%, Ascorbic Acid (min.) 45 mg/lb, Calcium (max.) 1.25%, Biotin (min.) 0.30 mg/lb, Phosphorus (min.) 0.60%, Lactobacillus AcidophilusFermentation Product (min.) 908 million CFU/lb,
Bobbie and Desi
Utah, Nov 2018

Re: Help please

Nancy C

Hi Melanie

Welcome.  You'll get a formal welcome shortly, but wanted to suggest that with fall coming and warmer days and colder nights, even the restricted grazing could push her insulin up, if she has EMS.

I'd not give the bute unless she is very bad, eg., stop eating from pain. Will be important to have more detail on her.  I will pm you instructions on how to set up a Case History.

Hang in there.
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA

Help please


Have a 9yr old section A mare, shes not over weight had two mild bout of Laminitis before we had her. Shes In a paddock of restricted grazing...
last Thursday morning noticed she had a dirty tail and she was lay down more than usual. Normally "gets up" when she hears we do! 
Brought her in,  TPR normal,had heat in her Hinds,  mild pulses. Short behind in trot but sound in walk.  Very happy I hersel . Shes been in on soaked hay with some zero chop and a tsp salt. Didn't give her any bute as she for she showed no signs of being in discomfort  , let her loose in stable yard to potter once heat had gone.48 hours later...
Tonight (day 5)shes got heat all four,  and pulses. Very confused! Shes had nothing other than her soaked hay et . Farrier coming friday as she wasnt in "Crisis" and he was booked solid. Going to phone vets in the morning to run through in case have missed anything. But anyone have any pearls of wisdom? Have cold hosed and given bute tonight,  but again shes sound in walk and turning. TPR normal not outwardly showing any signs of being uncomfortable/ pain. Apparently shes a real wimp normally if somethings wrong.
I'm very confused what's going on. My old cushing/ laminitic boy was textbook and behaved like the textbooks  whenever he had an episode. 
Thanks for reading this for, hope it makes sense! 
M.bailey Warwickshire UK sept2019

Re: WAS Blessing: New Numbers; Losing Ground NOW: Success

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

Very glad to hear you had success but I have to mention that licking and chewing is a sign of stress, not relaxation. You're right that it's a great time to slip that syringe in because they are preoccupied.
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001

Re: TMG for PPID muscle loss

Maria Duran

After 7 dose of TMG, I have to say that I haven't seen any difference regarding muscle development. However I am impressed by how much darker and shinny he is. He is also more participative 

Dr. Kellon, do you know any reason by which TMG could make his coat much more darker and shinny?

Thank you!
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album

Re: GAVE Pergolid to wrong horse!! HELP

Sharon Manning

Thanks guys for responding. 🙏❤️I just came in from the barn (3:30 EST) and i haven’t left his side Sense 9:00 this morning. ( I’m hungry) He seems fine... maybe he didn’t get it???
I don’t know, but so far so good. I don’t know how to express how crappy I feel about this I have to be more careful. ❤️ maybe I’m getting dementia.
Please forgive any errors

Sleep deprivation, was Re: Requesting “comments only” help from other experienced members WAS: Request for mark ups on fronts


Debra, I noticed the wounds on the front of Sierra's fetlocks. My Paint Diamond has those because she is a sleep deprived horse (some used to call is narcolepsy, but it's different). Have you ever seen Sierra fall asleep during the day and knuckle over onto the fronts of her fetlocks before she awakens? I didn't see anything in your case history mentioning this. The second video here shows what it looks like: 

 I do have a couple of years experience with this and have made some small progress minimizing the wounds that I'd be happy to share.

Maybe this belongs on ECHorsekeeping.
Cass for Cayuse (PPID/IR) and Diamond (IR)
Sonoma County, Calif. Oct. '12

Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos

Re: Star, slow healing corneal ulcer, suggestions?

Thank you everyone, for the suggestions and support. We muddled through finishing up the serum, which she hated, and she is still on the neopolybac ointment, which she has learned to tolerate. Yesterday I stained Star's eye and there was NO stain uptake at all! Just a small gray spot where the ulcer had been! I am so thankful for the improvement! Now waiting for my vet to see the new photo of her eye, and give me new instructions.
Jan 2018, Hingham, WI
Star Case History
Star Photos

Re: WAS Blessing: New Numbers; Losing Ground NOW: Success

Deb Walker

Wonderful news!!!!! I am so happy for you and Blessing.
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:

Re: WAS Blessing: New Numbers; Losing Ground NOW: Success

Candice Piraino

Hi Helen!

Great job on your successes with Blessing! I hope it continues for you and gets easier. I am glad you have persevered through it, which it can be so frustrating at times since all you want to do is help your horse!

~ Candice 

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History:

Shark's Photo Album: 


Re: GAVE Pergolid to wrong horse!! HELP


This happened to me once and the wrong horse who ate the 10mg pergolide basically acted like he had the pergolide veil.  He is still alive and well.
Jean and Amber (over the bridge)


South Carolina

August 2004

NRCPlus 0412; CIR 0813, 1211; NAT 0612

WAS Blessing: New Numbers; Losing Ground NOW: Success

Helen Connor

Blessing is now taking her CP via syringe, and getting most of it in her mouth! Thank you to everyone who commented with helpful tips and info. Each day it gets easier for both of us, though the first two nights it looked like I'd had a front row seat at a Gallagher watermelon smashing performance.

Three tips I've picked up through this experience: 1. A deep, calming breath helps the horse relax while you hold the halter. 2. Break the steps down into lots of little successes and release your hold on the halter at each success so she gets a reward. 3. When she relaxes, she'll lick and chew; take advantage of the opportunity and insert the syringe quickly and get out.
Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID)
Scappoose, OR
Member since May 2017
Case History:
Photo Album:

Re: GAVE Pergolid to wrong horse!! HELP


Hi Sharon,
First, I would alert my vet that the wrong horse had been dosed with pergolide, so they are available if you need them. Probably the biggest thing you will notice with the horse will be either drowsiness or hyper excited. One of the reason's pergolide was/is one the substance control list for the USEF is due to the possibility of competitors using it as a stimulant for horses in competition. So if the horse in question is younger, fit , etc. you might see them really full of themselves. 
There isn't anything you can do that I am aware of at this point, just make sure the horse is in a safe environment relative to what it is showing physical wise and call your vet if it shows any signs of colic, panic, etc. I doubt ANY of those symptoms will occur, but you will need your vet to treat if they do. 

Take a deep breath. I think this has happened to other's on the list and things turned out ok.

Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: .

Re: flaxseeds and heat in slow oven

DancerandTrisha <trishapomeroy@...>

You could put them in a dehydrator rather than the oven to keep the temp down. It will take longer, but with the lower temp you'll know for sure your aren't damaging any of the goodness.
North central Washington state
Joined Nov 3, 2018

GAVE Pergolid to wrong horse!! HELP

Sharon Manning

The wrong horse got the pergolid! Can someone advice me on what to do? It is 16mg compounded.


Cushing/IR 05


NAT 2/09


DEW 08/10

COH 04/11

BRR 2015

AAL 2015






Re: Returning member. Mare in laminitis flare up

Nancy C

PS....Since she has just started Prascend, I'd wait for two-three weeks from starting to (re)test ACTH, etc.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA

Re: Returning member. Mare in laminitis flare up

Nancy C

Hi Jane

Good job.  First admin stuff, then help with possible next steps for Hailey.

Here is the link to your Case History

Next step is to, create a folder for it and put that link in your auto signature. Go here
Look for NEW FOLDER in upper left-hand corner. Click on that and name your folder Jane and Hailey. Load your CH into that.  Click on the folder URL  to highlight and copy, then paste into your auto signature here.,,,100,0,0,0::joined,members,Jane+Beyer,100,2,0,181911

Don't forget to hit save.

You can then load your hay analysis .pdf into this folder so volunteers can comment and an ECIR Group diet balancer can find it.  Just heads up, what we want to see is ESC (simple sugar) and Starch.  Not worried about NSC, NFC or WSC.

When you have them, you can load your rad .jpgs here
Look for NEW ALBUM button in upper left corner. Again, name it Jane and Bailey.

Because she appears to be still laminitic, I would be testing ACTH now to make sure you have good control. I would also check Insulin and glucose (and leptin if in the budget) to see if the PPID is driving high insulin. In a perfect world, you want them both controlled now through at least the end of this month and into October. If uncontrolled, I'd want her pergolide raised now.

To get get help with balancing her diet, you can see this list of Kellon-approved diet balancers. The fees vary.

If you have taken Dr Kellon's NRC Plus course, you may have most of this done already.

If she is not having it with beet pulp, you can try other carriers like Triple Crown Naturals Timothy Balance aka Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance Cubes.

Or Nuzu Stabul 1

There are also other flavor enhancer ideas listed here in Picky Eaters checklist.

Hang in there.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA

Re: Requesting “comments only” help from other experienced members WAS: Request for mark ups on fronts

Nancy C

On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 03:59 AM, Debra wrote:
How do I determine the med-lateral imbalance and whether the high is "right" or the "low" is right?
Take pictures, pictures and more pictures. Dorsal and heels.  From the dorsal angle look up the leg. Lavinia only needs a few really good ones to be able to tell what may be going on.  You and your trimmer will learn immensely from taking and reviewing many, many. 

Out of sorts body-wise can start or be hugely impacted by unbalanced feet. It is not an uncommon problem.
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA

Re: Returning member. Mare in laminitis flare up

Jane Beyer

-- I have completed the case History this morning.  I am waiting for xrays from the vet.  They showed laminitis seperation at the top of the hoof.  We  started prascend on 8/26.  So she has been on it and in dry lot with about 18 # of hay in nets. I got the hay tested three weeks ago,  before the laminitis was evident to me.  The NFS was good at 8.3.  But the molebdynum and manganese are preventing me from balancing the cu/zinc.  I need help. Balancing the hay.  Although she has quit eating her bp and current minerals.  I keep adjusting  the minerals to the bare minimum to see if she will start getting the salt and magnesium and flax at the least.
The Vet and I thought to test for PPID in December.  I have already  shown her Dr. KELLONS  test protocol and she seems on board.

Jane and Hailey
Returning member 2007
Marquette, MI

Re: Requesting “comments only” help from other experienced members WAS: Request for mark ups on fronts


Hi Lavinia,

All new photos uploaded, wish I had some sort of laser cross-hairs device. I swear I'm (I think I am) shooting these straight on but then when I get home and load them so many seem misaligned. Did the best I could :-)

Toe wall on RF broke off at the abscess line, now I just need to keep it back and get 4:00-8:00 back/matched/oval (?) Feel in general that I'm going in the right direction but need to be more aggressive with the toes.  I'm not trimming, only rasping (weekly). 

How do I determine the med-lateral imbalance and whether the high is "right" or the "low" is right? That darn LF is the one she toes-out on and lands laterally which seems to be causing the wall on the lateral side to be crushed/roll under...and it's been doing that for a long time. Perhaps body work. When I got her she was really out of sorts body-wise. Poor thing couldn't canter properly (always cross cantering) that resolved over a period of a year. Tried chiropractic but the person wasn't able to do much b/c Sierra's so distrustful ( getting better).

For what it's worth she doesn't seem to be off (lame)...was there for a few weeks ... still tender footed on hard ground. Working on trying out some suitable work boots on her.
Debra Doerfler
San Marcos (San Diego County), California
Lady Sierra Snarf n' Snort AKA "Sierra"
2009 TB rescue mare, adopted 2017
Member since March 2019

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