Date   

Re: RIP Guinness

Maxine McArthur
 

Leonora my heart goes out to you. You were his best friend and had the courage to give him the final gift of release from his pain. I believe the horses know when they are loved. He will be waiting for you on the other side of the bridge.
--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Re: New Member - advice please

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Ailsa,

I'm inclined to agree with the farrier as those do look like gas pockets, and she does have quite a bit of rotation in both feet.  I'd question if those were new changes though, although I'm far from an expert on feet.  If you can also take pictures of her hooves as outlined in the trim section of the welcome letter that will help us provide further trim recommendations (which can always help no matter what the cause of the laminitis).  



Re: RIP Guinness

Cindy Q
 

So sorry to hear this Lenora, Guinness was a special boy and he is pain free and over the rainbow bridge now.
--
Cindy - Sep 2017, Singapore


Re: RIP Guinness

Nancy C
 

I'm so sorry Leonora.

It is the last best gift we can give them.

Fly free Guinness.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA


Re: New Member - advice please

ailsa.gibson@...
 

Thank you very much for all your replies!

I had also thought of poisoning, so interested that it came to your minds too.  We have been scouring our field and cannot find anything that could cause it, and our other horse is fine, but we will keep looking and thinking.

Vet receptionist says the results are back but she wants the vet to "interpret", so I have to wait until Sat morning in the UK.  Thanks for highlighting that the insulin results may be affected by the steroids.  They only stopped a few days before the blood sample.

I will do the Case History tomorrow.  I have just posted her x-rays here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95107
You can see a little dark area on both feet below the point of the pedal bone.  This is what the vet thought to be an abscess on both feet, but could not find any pus.   The farrier looked today and did not dig any more, he called it not an infection, but a pocket of gas/space caused by the laminitis.  He suggests just keeping a clean dry poultice on and letting it heal/grow out.  The pony isn't hopping lame, like horses with abscesses often are.  The farrier has trimmed her toes back.  I don't have any "after" x-rays.  She is perky today (keeps trying to escape the field shelter where I am temporarily stabling her!) but still very lame.  I am thoroughly soaking her hay and double netting it for now and will read up on your diet suggestions as I worry I'm taking the vits/minerals out of it.  She is used to ad lib hay alongside my big horse, so restricting things, soaking, feeding them differently will take some working out but can be done.

Thanks again, and I'll post what the blood results are tomorrow.  If they are normal I guess it suggests we are looking at some kind of poisoning.
--
Ailsa Gibson
UK
2019

X-rays: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95107


Re: RIP Guinness

Lorna Cane
 

Aww, Leonora . My heart aches for you. 
You were so fortunate to have shared each other's lives, but this is unspeakably tough.
Take care of yourself.

--

Lorna  in Kingston, Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator
2002
https://ecir.gro
ups.io/g/main/files/PPID%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories/Success%20Story%20%233%20-%20Lorna%20and%20Ollies%20Story.pdf


 


Re: RIP Guinness

Sherry Morse
 

Oh Leonora I am so very, very sorry to read this.



Re: RIP Guinness

larkstabatha
 


"Your wings were ready, but my heart was not..."  God bless and keep you Guinness.

Sally in Big Park, Arizona/April 2013

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sally%20with%20Tabby%20and%20Maisie 

  

 

 


RIP Guinness

Leonora B-C
 

It's with a heavy, heavy heart that I tell you Guinness was put to sleep today; he's over the Rainbow Bridge and enjoying lots of lush grass.  He was in too much pain for too long and although he was so brave and stoical, I felt I had to make the hardest decision of all for him.

Guinness was my soul mate, my friend, my rock and I'll miss him forever.

Thanks to everyone here for all the help, advice and support.
--
Leonora & Guinness
Oxfordshire, UK
Joined May 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Leonora%20and%20Guinness 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=52789 


Re: Should I ask for Metformin?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Ellen,

Tough when you have a mini to find boots that fit, esp. if the trim isn't exactly where it needs to be.

EasyCare has a mini boot now:

https://www.easycareinc.com/our_boots/Easyboot-Mini.asp

Add your choice of pad to them to fit your animal's needs.

Soft Ride also makes small ones:

https://www.softrideboots.com/sizing.php

You can call them with the hoof measurements to find out what they would recommend. Keep in mind that their gel pads are wedged and have a frog support. The frog support can be cut off if the individual doesn't like it and the pad itself should be trimmed into a flat pad if the hoof is trimmed correctly.

Cavallo makes a mini boot:

https://www.cavallo-inc.com/product/cute-little-boots-minis/

Equine Jogging Shoes:

http://equine-jogging-shoes.com/advice-guidance/mini-horse-road-boots/

HTH.

--
Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team


Re: New case history and xrays uploaded today

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hy Lynna,

Kudos to you for being a staunch advocate for your horse.

Will you get back before the farrier is due out again? If so, I'll wait to do the mark-ups on the radiographs until you also have the hoof pix added. If not, I can just mark-up the rads.

You are correct that there really hasn't been any improvement in the trim. Toes are too far out ahead of where they need to be, soles are thin, heels are slightly higher than optimal as there is a bit of bony column rotation that needs to be addressed. Until those toes get brought back and the rotation issue is addressed, you won't get any increase in the sole depth. Because there also appears to be some possible arthritis, and significant side bone, any change in the trim may cause some transient soreness as it may temporarily aggravate those areas. Doesn't mean you don't make the corrections, however, as without them, you will just be compounding the problems over time. You already know this and seem to be in a position to make the needed changes even if you can't get the farrier on board.

Whether you chooses to finish with shoes or not (and I'm NOT in favor of them), the trim they are attached to must first be correct or they will only compound the underlying mechanical issues.

If IR is part of the picture here (or even if it isn't), Adri's diet needs to be tightened up some more. Need to stop the Big V feed as it is totally unsuitable, even in small amounts. Soybean meal is also not recommended. For omega 3 - need 6 oz of ground flax or chia for Adri's weight. Flax is a more economical option than chia seeds but both need to be ground before feeding or need to feed more to compensate for the less efficient digestion of the whole seeds. Are you rinse/soak/rinsing the beet pulp before feeding? Has your hay been analyzed -if not, need to be soaking it before feeding. Specifics are in the Welcome note that Sherry has already provided.

 Considering her age, and the fact that the laminitis started several years ago, PPID is unlikely but not impossible and testing now to see if there is a seasonal problem would make sense.

--
Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team


Re: Should I ask for Metformin?

Deb Walker
 

Ellen - Although I like the Soft Rides a lot, I have found them to be a harder fit for Scotty with more twisting or coming off. My best luck has been with Easy Boot Clouds, however, now that Scotty is not in a laminitic phase, I use the Soft Ride inserts in the Clouds vs. the wedge pad that comes with them.
--
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619


Re: Should I ask for Metformin?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I wish it felt like we had better control of this situation but it doesn't !  Yes, try  metformin.  Dose is 30 mg/kg, repeated twice daily. Go here and print out the first file for your vet: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/filessearch?q=metformin
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Should I ask for Metformin?

taskerudet
 
Edited

As per previous messages, my Crackers has had an ever increasing insulin level (upon Cornell retest it was 270uIU/mL).  All the results are in the case history.  As per Dr. Kellon's advice and my vet's approval I have him on 4.5 mg pergolide.  He is retested next week along with Iron (being sent to KSU) and Lyme's.  His front feet were quite sore at the beginning of this episode but improved especially after getting a new farrier; however, within the last couple of days he is much more tender footed.  He only moves well on his padded and shavings stall.  I suspect his insulin will not have improved with the next test and was wondering if I should request Metformin if I am correct.  My vet did not seem familiar with this course of action and I want to know what kind of dose is appropriate for a mini weighing 280 to 300?  That may seem alot for a mini but he is 38" at the shoulder - a maxi-mini.  Is Metformin purchased from a regular pharmacy?

Dr. Kellon also suggested monitoring his glucose but it has always comes in upper 80's.  I read here that diabetic range is in the 120's?

I also purchased Phyto-quench but am not sure how much to give him and if I can continue to administer his J-herb.  I have read here that it interferes with J-herb but can it be given along with Phyto-quench anyways? It is one of those things I've been giving for such a long time that stopping it scares me.  I know it is probably an unjustified fear - can't help it!

And last but not least - does anyone have suggestions for boots that would fit his smaller feet and provide comfort walking on gravel and hard surfaces?

Thank you!
--
Ellen
July 2011, Goldendale, WA
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Ellen%20and%20Crackers
Crackers' Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1645


Re: Vitex with and without Pergolide

Sherry Morse
 

Deb,

If your horse has a high ACTH the answer is to increase the pergolide dosage.  If you want to give CTB in addition to that it won't interfere with the pergolide.  As Dr. Kellon noted in her original email:

Interestingly enough, the combination of the two gave much lower ACTH levels on the 6 month exam - but we have no way to know if more or all of those horses had their last exams in June rather than August.

So that's not scientific proof of an actual effect on ACTH levels.


Re: False positive insulin results

Nancy C
 

Just want to say "Good for you, Cheryl" for sticking with this.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA


Re: Vitex with and without Pergolide

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

There are only two fairly solid take home messages  IMO:

- CTB probably won't interfere with pergolide actions
- CTB does indeed help with shedding

It would take more study to confirm a positive interaction between them. If the horse is doing well, no need to add it.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: False positive insulin results

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Certainly much better insulin but far from normal. Hard to say on ACTH since I don't trust that value either. If she were mine, I'd increase her by 0.5 now and while you're away, up to 2 when you get back and taper down to 1 again in January then retest - at Cornell!
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: False positive insulin results

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Cheryl,

Hopefully one of the vets will chime in on your question.

As an assist can you please update the link in your signature to https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel%20Port%20Alberni%20BC%20Canada

The one you have now goes to the main CH folder for some reason.



Re: Asking For Advice Regarding Getting "Back In The Saddle"

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Lynn,

I think Tanna's already provided some great insights and I don't have a lot to add, but I was mulling this over yesterday as Scutch and I were doing his 45 minutes of rehab walking.

It may be that Relevante just overdid it a bit with going up and down the hill to the creek and playing in the water (different footing, water in the boots, ???) but of course your first thought is going to be that he's experiencing another laminitic episode or an abscess or something related to that.  If he's already feeling better though the odds are it's just a blip and you should be able to go back to walking once he's no longer sore and then I'd give him a few days of just 'active walking' before asking him to do any gaiting again.

For what it's worth when I'm in rehab mode (like now) every time the horse takes a bit of bad step, or forgets to pick his feet up and hits a ground pole I immediately think it's because he's having an issue or he's getting tired or his leg is going to fall off. More often though it's because I got distracted and I'm not keeping him actively moving and paying attention to what he's doing. As long as we both stay focused or we're on terrain we have to think about (trail vs. ring) he's been fine.   


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