Date   

Re: My poor 29 year old baby finally diagnosed PPID

Lorna Cane
 

Maria, you have made my day!
The owner might never catch on, but I'll bet that horse knows how lucky he is to know you !

Thanks for sharing. Of course,we wish his results were different, but still.....!

--

Lorna Cane
Ontario, Canada
2002


 


My poor 29 year old baby finally diagnosed PPID

Maria Duran
 

Hi all, 

Just wanted to say that after two years suspecting PPID in the horse I take care off, I was finally able to do a bloodwork and he is positive.

ACTH 374 pg/ml lab ranges up to 53 
Insulin  64.97 uU/ml lab ranges 10 to 30
Glucose 102 mg/100 ml lab ranges up to 110

The owner will not treat him as she says he is fine 😢. However she doesn't mind I do it so I will.

I just wanted to say thank you to the group because if not for you I would not have been able to have the knowledge to do it. I feel confident to try even when the vet doesn't even know about Prascend or how to treat PPID. I feel I have enough preparation to know what to do and have the excellent support of this group when times of uncertainty arrives.

Thank you all.

--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album
_._,_._,_


Re: PowerPac and Other Questions

 

Thank you both I appreciate the input. Maybe the farm supply will let me return the PP.


--
Amber, Calliber and now Marquise
Upstate SC
Joined in 2019

NRCPlus Jan 2019
CIR 2019
DEW 2019

Calliber Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Calliber ( https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Calliber )
Calliber Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82557 ( https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82557 )

Marquise's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Marquise
Marquise's Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91447


Re: Psyllium pellets Equs Intl..

 

I cannot for the life of me get my horse to eat psyllium of any type that is safe for his IR status. 

I have resorted to doing manure sampling/testing for sand and my boy Mouse who lives in a sandy dry lot. I have done two tests for sand in manure so far and haven't found sand yet. Of course he is one of those horses that turns his nose up at any food that has fallen to the ground. Must be the Arabian in him!
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: Herbs and rx meds

 

I have an Amazon account and I buy the Fenugreek from there. Many choices available. I actually find a lot of my horse's food grade minerals there also.

I would still like to know why Frances C. would feed 4 oz of Fenugreek per day? 

I cannot find any reason for feeding that amount of Fenugreek.
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: Psyllium pellets Equs Intl..

 

Kate, try a search of message. You'll find many results. Plain bulk psyllium husk works for a lot of horses. One of the pellets, SandRid, was relatively safe if they didn't change their formula!
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/9c%20Analyses%20of%20Various%20Feeds/4.%20Psyllium 

I'd start out with a pound of plain psyllium husk from health food store to see how your IR horses like it. It's great to have on hand as a regulator for the occasional bout of loose manure in any event.

I used to feed a mix of SandRid and psyllium husk with supplements and carrier the first week of the month. I prefer psyllium husk to the powder. I add lots and lots of water, keep adding water until it's the consistency of Malt-o-Meal and stays that way for a minute or two.  Lots of water

--
Cass for Cayuse (PPID/IR) and Diamond (IR)
Sonoma County, Calif. Oct. '12

Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos


Re: Was: Please explain new blood test results Now: Retested Insulin Results

taskerudet
 

Dr. Kellon,

No rapid weight gain or loss has occurred and he has never stopped eating - in fact, he is constantly looking ahead to that next feeding.  He has not been tested for triglycerides or liver enzymes.  Is there specific guidance for these tests, i.e. feeding protocol, time of day, specific labs to submit blood etc? Do we only test for insulin at 1 and 6 weeks after starting the metformin and send it to Cornell or will the vet's normal lab be sufficient?

I will reduce his flax to 1oz. and increase his pergolide by .5 mg.  My new vet was shocked by the amount I give him but again I referred her to the ECIR group for more information on that and pointed out that it is apparently working due to his ACTH value decreasing from the previous test.  And I am glad to hear he isn't iron overloaded and can't wait to print out your new paper. 

Again, thank you for all you do for us and our compromised horses.
--
Ellen
July 2011, Goldendale, WA
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Ellen%20and%20Crackers
Crackers' Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1645


Re: Looking for source for bulk Phosphorus

Lynn
 

Hi Bonnie - i also use the Uckele monosodium phosphate product. Right now Uckele is offering 10 percent off site-wide with the coupon code Congress. Saves you a bit more than the ECIR coupon. 
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Re: Looking for source for bulk Phosphorus

Kate Triplett
 

Uckele now has a monosodium phosphate product as well.

https://uckele.com/monosodium-phosphate.html

--
Kate and Bunny (Irish Draught broodmare "possibly" PPID) and Lacey (Irish Draught Sporthorse broodmare IR laminitis)
Homesick Angels Farm, WA USA
Joined August 2019
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kate%20and%20Bunny
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kate%20and%20Lacey
Lacey feet image files  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95210
Bunny image files  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95239




Re: Welcome Joy and Willie (aka FLS Boxcar Willie)

 

Joy, I am also boarding my horse now. It is hard to control a horse's diet when you board but not impossible if you find the right place to board. You can do it more easily if the facility is small enough that they aren't constantly buying new lots of hay. You can do lower cost tests on new hay by testing for just ESC (sugars) and starch. You can get just these two things tested for about $34. Always ask for the results to be emailed to you as that is the quickest response time.

You should also join the "Horsekeeping" group if you haven't already. That is a good place to ask for ideas like "hay storage", preferred hay nets, dry lot footing etc. You can search the messages also.
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: Psyllium pellets Equs Intl..

Kate Triplett
 

Holy Wow! and a smaller yikes!

Thanks Cass, that is great info not available on their website :) As I do have quite a bit of it, I can reserve it for the younger horses who are still burning the energy and the skinny old girl who actually needs a bit more.

Guess I need to find a psyllium that is OK for IR horses?
--
Kate and Bunny (Irish Draught broodmare "possibly" PPID) and Lacey (Irish Draught Sporthorse broodmare IR laminitis)
Homesick Angels Farm, WA USA
Joined August 2019
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kate%20and%20Bunny
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kate%20and%20Lacey
Lacey feet image files  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95210
Bunny image files  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95239




Re: Herbs and rx meds

Joy V
 

Bonnie, where do you buy your fenugreek product from?  TIA



--
Joy and Willie  
(aka FLS Boxcar Willie)

Nevada County, CA - 2019


Re: Welcome Joy and Willie (aka FLS Boxcar Willie)

Joy V
 

Thanks so much Bonnie.  My 21 y.o. QH gelding just tested positive for PPID this month.  He is on Prascend (1 pill per day) and vet wants to re-test after the seasonal rise.  I have been working on my case file, but there are so many holes in it, it's taking me a bit of time.  I need to tape my horse to see what he weighs at this point.  I had started him on a "diet" prior to the testing.  He was also already on Cal Trace + b/c I can't test the hay at my barn.  Working on getting my own hay, but have to figure out where I can store it (my husband & I are renters). 

I hope to get everything on the site by the end of this month.

I have been reading and reading ECIR though for over a month now.  It's amazing all the information & I've learned so much.  I will work on getting my case file done.  I'm going to get pictures when my trimmer comes this month again.  

Thank you again!

Joy

--
Joy and Willie  
(aka FLS Boxcar Willie)

Nevada County, CA - 2019


Re: Psyllium pellets Equs Intl..

 

Kate, if this is Equus psyllium pellets, with the day-glo green label that screams NO SUGAR, it's NOT safe for IR horses. There's a reason they love it. It's 23% starch. 
This is the product: https://www.valleyvet.com/swatches/23772_L_vvs_000.jpg
This is the analysis: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/9c%20Analyses%20of%20Various%20Feeds/4.%20Psyllium/2013-08-09%20Equus%20Psyllium%20Pellets.pdf

--
Cass for Cayuse (PPID/IR) and Diamond (IR)
Sonoma County, Calif. Oct. '12

Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos


Re: Help with IR horse

jensvasquez@...
 

Thank you Lavinia! I'm working my way through the info and starting a file. I did change the equi-analytical test to "#603 - Trainer", am working on getting bloodwork, already took her off any grazing, and I'm spacing out her food in proper weighted amounts. I'll start a file and start dropping everything in there once I understand the proper way to do it. Really appreciate your guidance and this forum. Wish I found it 2 years ago! :)
--
Jen Vasquez, Colorado, joined in 2019


Re: Movement vs. confinement

celestinefarm
 

Hi Cindy,
Allowing a horse six weeks out from a laminitis episode to move on her own is fine. I have no idea how that would compromise sole growth. To get any kind of growth of sole, wall, etc requires among many things, circulation of blood, fluid and nutrients , which in the horse, requires movement.  It also requires correct trims , especially backing of toes and concurrent backing of the breakover on boots. I didn't find her radiographs in her CH, possibly a mod can help you with that.

IMO, allowing her free turnout , with no other horse pushing her around, is in her best interest.  The fact that she is bucking a bit sounds good, her feet likely aren't that off. Getting her radiographs posted, along with good photos of her feet, would allow Lavinia to do markups for you and provide feedback.

Good you are soaking her hay, I saw your hay analysis. 
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Re: Movement vs. confinement

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Assuming she is not on pain masking treatments, movement at her own pace is fine *if* she is sensible and not at risk of penetrating her sole. That is probably more your vet's concern rather than interfering with sole growth. She does have very little protection on those films.  That isn't likely to change until the trim is corrected.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: PowerPac and Other Questions

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

It' over on the deworming course. First reply got eaten!
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: PowerPac and Other Questions

Nancy C
 

Hi Amber

In addition to Dawn's questions I would want to know from my vet if she has knowledge or opinion about resistance to the PP in my area. I certainly feel your pain about spending money, then being unsure what to do. You have options other than what may have been suggested, but the vets are better able to weigh in on this.

I have used PP years ago for my very IR gelding, without incident. This was before resistance was fully appreciated.

Quest and Quest Plus need to be dosed very carefully. It is not as forgiving as the other options. You very likley know this.

While waiting for Dr Kellon or Clougher, here are a few links that may (?) help with clarity.

Quest Power Pac. Higher Praziquantel. Get very accurate weights.  Danger of overdosing.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/181527

Quest should not be used for thin, debilitated horses.There is no specific precaution with IR or PPID.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/181526

Dr Kellon's most recent blog on deworming with specific info on why FECs are not as acurrate as perhaps once thought.
https://drkhorsesense.wordpress.com/2019/09/14/rethinking-deworming-strategy/

Hang in there.  There are few things that give me as much of a headache as getting my arms solidly around deworming.

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA


Movement vs. confinement

nexthillfarm@...
 

My 20yo Morgan mare was dx with laminitis 6 weeks ago. I've overhauled her diet, soaking hay and eliminating TC ration balancer in favor of HorseTech products. Vet had me confine mare to stall and 12x10 run (mare cannot be locked in a stall). I have gradually increased the size of her run back to her usual 24x60 or so. She's been in SoftRides since her diagnosis. The last few days, I have allowed her out in a pasture, by herself, wearing a grazing muzzle that allows no grass at all. She seemed fine with the arrangement, rolled, bucked trotted a bit and then walked around a lot. My vet was not happy that I turned her out, concerned that I was compromising sole growth. The mare's radiographs are in her CF. Yes, her soles with thin and she showed rotation, but the vet thought she could have been rotated for some time. I feel like movement, not forced in any way, is better for my horse than standing (moping) around. Can anyone provide any advice here? I like my vet, but disagree with some aspects of her treatment plan, including feed recommendations and limited movement.
--
Cindy D
Colorado, USA
Joined 2019

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/filessearch?q=Xena

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