Date   

Re: Cluster of Severe EMS Cases - long shot Johnson Grass

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Johnson grass seed heads are shaped like Christmas trees but drying, etc. can change characteristics considerably. Have you tried taking it to your local state Ag extension agent's office?  If they can't ID it, they can send it to someone who can!
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


Re: Howdy has tested positive with outrageous numbers

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

It's critical with these fragile cases to avoid the wrong feed or hay but I need to remind everyone they are not causing the outrageous numbers, just fueling the flames.

A normal horse given a large meal high in sugar and starch, like sweet feed, will top out the insulin reaction somewhere around 40 to 60 uIU (260 to 390 pmol). We're talking about reactions to diets with relatively low sugar and starch compared to that which are 20+ times higher than the normal response to a meal dense in sugar and starch.

The danger zone for an acute laminitis episode seems to be start around 80 uIU (520 pmol) but there is smoldering damage being done to the laminae in all EMS horses with elevated insulin.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


Re: Cluster of Severe EMS Cases - long shot Johnson Grass

 

Oops. Not paying attention that the reply posted on groups.io. 

Here's one:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/7296/0?p=Created,,,50,2,0,0 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History Folder                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History Folder              Diamond Photos 


Re: LJ - your source & price for Invokana

LJ Friedman
 

$2.43 us. For 300 mg
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Howdy has tested positive with outrageous numbers

Tanna
 

Hi Victoria, 

I'm not familiar with the group you note but curious to know where they get the information that the All Phase Lite is considered safe and also what that 9% consists of? Did someone send it for testing?

I have been told on several occasions, by a dealer, that the Starch alone is 11%. 


Tanna 

April 2019, (Yahoo Group member 2008)
Langley, BC, Canada

Tula's Case History 


Re: Cluster of Severe EMS Cases - long shot Johnson Grass

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Photos can't come through on messages. Could you please put it in the Photos section?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


Stabul 1

sunshine12982000
 

I'm really excited that Stabul 1 is now available at Chewy.com. I ordered yesterday and it's already shipped! Hope this helps all of you who have trouble finding it.

Gayle and Sabrina (in green pastures)
3/06
Fairview, TN


Re: Dr. Kellon re Sunny

Joy V
 

Hi Sue, where in No Cal did you get the test?  (I'm in No Cal too).  Thanks!

--
Joy and Willie  
(aka FLS Boxcar Willie)

Nevada County, CA - 2019


Re: Cluster of Severe EMS Cases - long shot Johnson Grass

Cass Bernstein
 

Dr Kellon, at least two grasses being sold a orchard grass in northern California are NOT orchard grass. One in particular looks very attractive because it’s very leafy and persistently green hay. I received several bale in the past few years, and the nitrate levels were off the charts, 7700 ppm nitrate ion, 5100 ppm nitrate ion.  I haven't tested for cyanide but would be willing to if I can find a lab to do it.

I suspect some kind of Johnson Grass (an invasive plant in California). The hay I received with off the charts nitrates levels had these seed heads, remains very green even though 2 years old. I’m attaching a photo.



Cass

On Dec 18, 2019, at 11:06 AM, Eleanor Kellon, VMD <drkellon@...> wrote:

I'm trying to collect information on all the cases of severely elevated insulin  (200 uIU/1200 pmol  or higher), usually also with elevated glucose, in horses or ponies/minis located in western Canada and along the west coast of the US. If you have one of these, please send the following information to drkellon "at" gmail.com.

1.  The animal's location, including nearest city or town, and how long you have been there
2.  Animal's age, breed and sex
3.  Insulin and glucose at diagnosis or time of severe worsening
4.  Where your hay is grown
5.  Other items in the diet
6.  Treatments tried and response to them
7.  Link to your case history on ECIR if you have one

Any other comments are welcome.

Thank you.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001



--
Cass for Cayuse (PPID/IR) and Diamond (not)
Sonoma County, Calif 
Diamond Case History


Re: LJ - your source & price for Invokana

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

 He was using affordablerxmeds.com https://affordablerxmeds.com/invokana?search=invokana It takes a solid two weeks for an order to reach you.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


LJ - your source & price for Invokana

richard
 

Hi, LJ - I think I asked you this earlier in the year but didn't write your answer down as I wasn't really serious about trying Invokana then.  But at this point it might be the last thing that I can try that might help my horse.  What Canadian pharmacy are you getting your Invokana from & what is the price?  
Thanks.

Sue & Sunny
N. Calif.
2011


Re: Dr Kellon / dosage advice please?

Bobbie Day
 

Stopped rinsing her hay shortly after starting the meds, slowly. At least since August.


--
Bobbie and Desi
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


Re: Blood work results and next step

mega
 

Thank you very much, Dr. Kellon. Next test we will do maybe later in the day.
--
Mega
Maryland
November 2019
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mega%20and%20Aine 


Re: Cluster of Severe EMS Cases

richard
 

Dear Dr. Kellon - Here's the info you've requested on my mare Sunny whose insulin has consistantly been elevated:

1)  located near Red Bluff in N. California

2)  13 y. o. TWH mare

3)  I started testing her (Cornell) Sept. 2018.  Insulin consistantly over 200 (except 10/12/18 when it was 195.26).  Glucose around 100 in fall of 2018.  She really crashed spring of 2019 - glucose was 202.  

4)  Our hay is grown NE of Redding, high plains area around Burney.

5)  Diet:  low sugar/starch mixed grass hay (I don't weigh it but make sure she gets enough to have some left at the next meal.  Being overweight is not one of her problems.), 2 1/2 c. Stabul 1 with 1/2 c. alfalfa pellets (so she'll eat it) twice per day as the carrier for minerals to balance her hay, 3 T. salt, 2000 I.U. Vit. E, 3/4 cup ground flax, 2 T. jiaogulan (divided between AM & PM), 2,000mcg chromium yeast twice per day (I'm grasping at straws!), & 3g AAKG twice per day for cold-induced hoof pain.  Water analysed - no detectable iron found.

6)  1.25mg compounded pergolide (brought her ACTH down nicely but didn't affect insulin) & 22,000 mg Metformin (divided between AM & PM) to lower blood sugar (4/11/19 glucose was 202, 9/6/19 was 139, 12/12/19 was 153).

7)  No case history.


Hope this helps.

Sue (Laurente) & Sunny
N. Calif.
2011
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019, 11:06:57 AM PST, Eleanor Kellon, VMD <drkellon@...> wrote:


I'm trying to collect information on all the cases of severely elevated insulin  (200 uIU/1200 pmol  or higher), usually also with elevated glucose, in horses or ponies/minis located in western Canada and along the west coast of the US. If you have one of these, please send the following information to drkellon "at" gmail.com.

1.  The animal's location, including nearest city or town, and how long you have been there
2.  Animal's age, breed and sex
3.  Insulin and glucose at diagnosis or time of severe worsening
4.  Where your hay is grown
5.  Other items in the diet
6.  Treatments tried and response to them
7.  Link to your case history on ECIR if you have one

Any other comments are welcome.

Thank you.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


Re: Dr Kellon / dosage advice please?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 01:55 PM, Sherry Morse wrote:
 
How long from when you stopped rinsing her hay until you noticed the crest? I would think that may be related to the hay no longer being rinsed so that would be the first thing I would do before I changed her dose of Prascend.
Agree.
 
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


Re: Blood work results and next step

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Sounds good to me. One month is long enough to wait. However, the blood was pulled at a time that likely gave you the highest insulin spike of the day. Unless there is constant access to hay at night, wait at least 4 hours after the first meal of the day.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


Re: Dr. Kellon re Sunny

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I agree, but send me a private  mail at drkellon "at" gmail.com with a cc to your vet so I can send an information file.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


Dr. Kellon re Sunny

richard
 

Just remembered - I had the horses' water tested recently for iron.  No detectable iron found.
For the benefit of others wanting to find out the iron level in their water - I called the local water testing company, brought in a bottle of water (check with them to see if you need a special container), cost was $23.  Easy & cheap.

Sue & Sunny
N. Calif.
2011


Re: High Ferritin but normal Serum & TIBC,

 

Lorna, I should have mentioned that testing your pasture grasses may be more important if your horses have any access to pasture. If your horses drink well water, then by all means test.  In a high rainfall areas, mineral content in grass can vary seasonally.

Here, during the winter rains, iron levels are off the charts high because soil pH gets so low in rain saturated soils. One instance: iron levels in pasture were 2170 ppm as Dry Matter. 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cass%20and%20Satra%20-%20Cayuse%20-%20Diamond/Hay&%20Pasture%20Analysis/2012-02-WinterPastureGrasses.pdf 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History Folder                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History Folder              Diamond Photos 


Dr. Kellon re Sunny

richard
 

Hi, Dr. Kellon - This is a continuation of our private consultation started earlier this year (?) that I'm continuing here on the forum because you weren't receiving my emails.  I just got Sunny's 12/12/19 results back from Cornell (where all her tests have been done):  ACTH 14.7 (was 150 on 9/6/19, started on compounded pergolide 10/7/19 tapering up to 1.25mg); glucose 153 (was 202 on 4/11/19, started on Metformin 7/11/19 22,000mg per day divided AM & PM, was 139 9/6/19) insulin over 200 (has been over 200 at every test since I 1st tested her 9/14/18 (except for 10/12/18 test which was 195.26).
So her PPID looks well controlled.  Metformin doesn't seem to be doing much for glucose.  Insulin still a disaster.  
All I can think to do is try Invokana.  I'm going to check with LJ re his source & price.  Any suggestions?

Sue L. & Sunny
N. Calif. 
2011

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