Ahahaha worth a try 🙈
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Jessica Skene  - Abitibi, Québec, Canada
Sonara => Canadian X QH mare , 13 years old, historic of founder and Laminitis, IR / EMS

october 2017

Link to case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20Skene%20and%20Sonara/SonaraCaseHistory2019.pdf
Link to album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=10295&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Link to hay analysis: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20Skene%20and%20Sonara/analysedefoin.pdf

Thank you LJ

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Tanna 

April 2019, (Yahoo Group member 2008)
Langley, BC, Canada

Tula's Case History 

i think?? dr kellon mentioned 40 degrees. legs and feet wrapped.  
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LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 

Do we know if there is a temperature at which horses at risk can experience problems? At freezing? Below freezing? Would keeping such a horse well blanketed, physically warm, help to offset some of the effect? 

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Tanna 

April 2019, (Yahoo Group member 2008)
Langley, BC, Canada

Tula's Case History 

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Joy and Willie  
(aka FLS Boxcar Willie)

Nevada County, CA - 2019

i forgot to mention ground flax
Jesse eats only timothy pellets.   adding salt , vit e and flax makes it very close to acceptable till you tighten more. 
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LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 

Jessica,

Chocolate chip cookies.

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Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002

 

I can try, but many are not willing at all to do such things =(
I can definetly take my blood but not sure if a clinic will accept to centrifugate and send... many are not really cooperative 
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Jessica Skene  - Abitibi, Québec, Canada
Sonara => Canadian X QH mare , 13 years old, historic of founder and Laminitis, IR / EMS

october 2017

Link to case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20Skene%20and%20Sonara/SonaraCaseHistory2019.pdf
Link to album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=10295&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Link to hay analysis: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20Skene%20and%20Sonara/analysedefoin.pdf

Cowboy sounds like a dream pony, Jennifer!  Can you muzzle him for turnout?  Lots of horses go out to ‘graze’ with a muzzle on and I would think that would work for hay.  Just make sure he gets enough of the good stuff at night.
I’m curious about his pergolide dose.  Is that the dose your vet recommended?  It’s an unusual dose to prescribe because the tablet is only scored to be split in half.  

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Jessica,

Would this be a possibility for blood sampling:

Do you have a small animal vet in your area? If so:

As you are a vet tech, would you be able to pull your own blood samples, then have them centrifuged at the small animal vet clinic and sent out to the lab from there?
Or if you are unable to draw the blood, could you have the horse vet do it when s/he comes to the area, then take the samples to the small animal vet to be processed and shipped?

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Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

Hello - my horse knowledgeable barn owner and I have been having detailed discussions regarding my PPID horse and the best care practices for him.  At this time, a dry lot is not feasible for either the barn owner or myself.  Oklahoma is very windy and after much research I do not feel we are going to have much success at maintaining a dry lot.  I am very concerned it would require the use of strong herbicides to succeed and I am worried about the side effects. Cowboy was diagnosed with PPID in Sept 2019.  After being on Pergoloide, 1/4 tablet daily, for 90 days we retested his ACTH and Insulin levels on Dec 23.  His ACTH was = 11 (nice and low), but his Insulin is now high, Insulin = 51.  Of course, his ACTH was tested after the typical seasonal rise.  Can someone help me understand a few things:

1.  The hay being fed out in the turnouts is high in Iron.  We moved to this barn 12/2/2019.  His last blood test was done 12/23.  Could the high Iron hay fed during the day have affected his Insulin in such a short time (20 days)? At night he is being fed a different hay that I have had analyzed, balanced and is low in iron.

2.  In an "Ideal PPID Treatment World" keeping Cowboy away from the barn provided hay would be best.  However, the only way to do this would be to keep him in his stall 24/7.  I feel like this would be terrible for a horse being that they are a herd animal.  I wish I could commit to exercising him 1 hour daily and then I would not have as much of an issue with locking him up, but I do not have the time available.  The barn can exercise him 2X weekly.  I can probably get in 3X weekly with much effort.  If he got 5 days of exercise, would it be ideal for a horse to be locked up that long?  Would it negatively impact him?

3.  When a horse is in a larger turn out - a pasture with other horses - and has to move quite a bit to get to food and water, as well as socialize with the other geldings would this help reduce his insulin levels?  Meaning, does exercise and mental stimulation play any part in helping a horse with PPID and/or IR? 

4.  My pony was originally purchased for my daughter to ride.  She was 5 years old at the time.  Now at the age of 7.5 years she has decided that she does not have time for Cowboy due to other extracurricular activities.  Therefore, I am going to have to sell him.  I am very concerned about finding an owner that is willing to analyze and balance his hay.  I am also concerned about how much I should insist he will need to be on a dry lot.  Especially since I am not able to provide one for him at this time.  Cowboy has never had laminitis.  He appears to be very healthy, has a nice coat at this time and nice hooves.  Most farriers are very impressed with the health of his feet.  He has an exceptional personality especially considering he is a pony.  Everyone that meets him cannot get over how kind he is and easy to ride.  


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- Jennifer Haunschild
Sept 2019, Edmond, OK
Space Cowboy - 12.1h Welsh Pony:  PPID 

Space Cowboy Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Space%20Cowboy

 

Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/Casehistory/album?id=96011

 

Thank you everyone for your input.  I am so very much appreciative of everyone in this group.  Thank you!
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- Jennifer Haunschild
Sept 2019, Edmond, OK
Space Cowboy - 12.1h Welsh Pony:  PPID 

Space Cowboy Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Space%20Cowboy

 

Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/Casehistory/album?id=96011

 

Hi guys,

I redo my CH and add manually the last blood work I did!

I also add some details under tabs, because I really do feel tabs wasn't the right way to give you some of the infos... I updated my signature, tel me what you think...

Lorna: I will talk with him! I am wiling to handle my sample put it in my freezer and ship it with the proper paper if we can't figure a way for my vet to do it. It is really not easy... not having a vet full time here... we lost a horse at the barn dec, 31th 2019... Colic... We could inject him some IV flunixine (As I am a vet tech able to do it) but we had no vet to intubate the stomac to degaze.... and he did not make it... but I think he may have been in torsion so maybe it would not have saved him without a surgery... but still, we would have love to give him all the chances...
We have a really good hay quality and management... he probably didn't drank enough... I am happy to supplement salt now! My mare drink more!
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Jessica Skene  - Abitibi, Québec, Canada
Sonara => Canadian X QH mare , 13 years old, historic of founder and Laminitis, IR / EMS

october 2017

Link to case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20Skene%20and%20Sonara/SonaraCaseHistory2019.pdf
Link to album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=10295&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Link to hay analysis: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20Skene%20and%20Sonara/analysedefoin.pdf

As with any supplement- do your research.  I lean towards the more scientific companies (do research and committed to safety) that are dedicated to quality and purity of the product.

Extrusion is to make things more available to the horse.  Not sure how extruded would make starch less of a problem. You'd really need to know how much starch there is in the product.  NSC doesn't tell you that. In addition the "lower glycemic index" is a concept based on humans and, in general, does not apply to horses.  A complete list of ingredients would help a bit.

Here are two comments from Dr Kellon on availability of extruded starch.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/search?q=posterid%3A58231+extruded+%2Bstarch

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Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA

You've probably got this figured out by now,Jessica , but because of its importance I'm going to belabour it.
I'm thinking he can help you set up an appointment closest to the time he'll be heading back to the clinic. That might not work,considering all the horses he has to see,and where they are.
You are definitely at a disadvanytage.
But still,the good news is that he can spin the sample at your place. You can have some sort of insulated something-or- other ready for the sample. ( I'll bet he has a portable mini fridge ,at least, in his truck. ) Lots of ice, lots of insulation, hoping to freeze it and keep it that way. Best is to freeze it overnight in a freezer, then ship. But best isn't always possible.
Maybe he could help you work out something better than this.

The CH  is the best way we have of knowing the details, instead of just trying to imagine how S. is being managed currently. Doesn't work.
When you open your own facility, you will know why we are hounding you about this.

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Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002

 

Here is a link to the info

Muenster Milling NSC Levels.pdf--
Jennifer Teis
Austin, TX, USA
Joined 2019

I meant to add in response to Cass’s post that pesticide contamination is a very real issue.  Hemp is used in soil remediation projects because it has very deep roots and it seems to have an affinity for contaminants.  There’s been talk of using it to clean up industrial waste sites.  My question being, what do you then do with the contaminated hemp?  So, not only do you want to know what was sprayed onto the plant, you want to know as much as possible about the soil it was grown in.
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Where should I put it?

Export your jpgs as a .pdf or .doc and put in your CH folder. See this folder in your file

Blood Work 1 files

Which says: This is for complicated blood work reports like CBC Reports. ACTH, insulin, glucose, leptin results should be entered into the equine's case history in the Blood Work Table.
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Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA

I think this is a link to the product Joy is using.  Interestingly, LJ, it is based in San Diego but can’t be shipped to California.  As is typical of many CBD products, there does not appear to be a listing of how much CBD it contains.  It is shipped to the US from Denmark.  The locally grown VT CBD tells you exactly how much CBD each capsule contains.  And there’s a company in Maine which has been doing research with Cornell on CBD in dogs. They sell products for dogs and cats but not people or horses.  I have given dogs cannabinoids successfully for anxiety and cancer associated pain.  I know there are vets who prescribe Marinol, a synthetic THC, for dogs.  Maybe horses will be next?  I always imagine that horses nibbled as needed on scruffy cannabis plants until we did our best to eradicate them (the plants, not the horses).  The mind altering quality of THC is brought about by heating and thus would not present a problem for the animal.
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