Date   

Leptin normal, Glucose and Insulin high

 

Hello-
I had a metabolic panel drawn on my 11 yr warmblood gelding to rule out PPID as a cause for his equine asthma. I screwed up on the timing - the vet showed up early, and Magoo had only been fed 30 minutes prior to the blood draw and still had food in front of him, in addition to the feed time being an hour later than he is used to (usual worker's day off). The asthma is his only symptom, no fat pads or foot soreness. ECIR page says TRH can have false positives, so we had decided not to act on the TRH stimulation result, but I'm grateful for any opinions on any of the results. Specifically, if the leptin is normal, how concerned should I be about the insulin and glucose being in the uncompensated IR range under these blood draw conditions? Results are below. Thanks in advance!

Insulin - 25.56 mIU/mL
Glucose - 103 mg/dL
Leptin - 6.83 ng/mL
T3 - 49.9 ng/mL
T4 - 2.34 ug/mL
ACTH pre TRH - 16.4 pg/mL
ACTH post TRH -  133 pg/mL (normal 9-110)

Laura and Magoo
Petaluma, CA
NRC+ 0310


Re: Relevante's Trim Delayed A Week - Will That Cause Damage?

Deb Walker
 

Lynn...Relevante will be fine. Believe me. I've been in this situation for 2 1/2 years. Lately we were doing 2 times a week, and slowly extending it out. I got really worried when it just extended to between 3-4 weeks. Scotty is showing no pain and is walking well (with boots.) When farrier stopped out last Friday, I said he needed all 4 done, and I only got the fronts because of time/situation. I know what it's like to freak out. My goal is to get Scotty out of his boots. But a week or more won't make a huge impact if you are on top of it.

Sorry for your family issues. Been there/done that too. It's hard.
--
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619


locked Re: Upward Fixating Patella Advice?

R. McCall
 

She is never closed up in her stall, but is in a dry paddock area at the barn and can go in and out of her stall as she pleases.  She is 22. We know there are some arthritis issues as well. I’d love to let her out in the pasture more than that, but have assumed that would be too risky with all the grass. 
--
R.C. McCall
Western North Carolina 
Joined September 2019


Dr. Kellon re Sunny - urine test strips

richard
 

My vet drew blood from Sunny yesterday, & today I sent the serum to Cornell to test her kidney function.  If all is OK, we will start her on Invokana soon.  Do you have any recommendations as far as the brand of urine test strips to use?  Also, how often should I check her urine?
Thanks in advance.

Sue L. & Sunny
N. Calif.
2011


locked Tapering off 1 mg of bute

May Pearson
 

My pony, Blondie, has been on 1 mg of bute (1/2 am,1/2 pm) since April 2019 due to a severe arthritis of her right hock.
Often, after she rolled, she couldn't get up.  An x-ray showed she had no collagen so the vet and I decided to put her on bute.  
I was worried she might be on bute indefinitely. Now, she has developed arthritis on her right front knee.
Frequent breaks are  needed during shoeing.

Her hock has much improved to almost back to normal (I know I should taper her off
the bute, but the barn where I board her doesn't want to). It doesn't want be responsible if Blondie can't get up since bute works well, 
the people in the barn don't want to rock the boat.

I  know long-term use of  bute can have serious consequences, so I would like to put her on DC instead.
1). The protocol for tapering off bute is based on 2mg over 9 days. What is the best way to taper off 1mg ?
2). After she is no longer on bute, when should I start her on DC? Can DC be used for long- term maintenance?
3). My vet wants me to take her off bute and put her on 3/4 pill of equinox daily immediately. Is this a good idea?
What are the Group's opinions here?

Finally, I have not updated her CH, but I will do so as soon as possible.

Thank you

May Pearson Croton NY 2008

https//ecir.groups.Io/g/CaseHistory/files/May%20and%20Blondie


locked Re: Upward Fixating Patella Advice?

Heidi Wright
 

Hi R.C.,

Exercise is so important to both the patella issue and controlling IR.  Is there any way she can be out all day long?  The more she moves around the better, even if it's just at a walk.  Definitely hill work is helpful but if she is only being let our for an hour or two a day you may want to first extend her time out so that her body conditions to all day movement before starting hills.   How old is she?  I bought a young horse that had limited turnout at the breeder due to property constraints. He had an issue with upward fixation of the patella and it went away after he got stronger, which we achieved by giving him tons of turn out.
--
Heidi Wright
joined Aug 15, 2018
5130 State Route 38
Malta, IL  60150
815-761-2341

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heidi%20and%20Skyler 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=69604


Re: Urgent advice please. Think I overdosed Savannah with pergoloide.

Lorna Cane
 

I dunno,Pat. Best to speak to a person on the phone,I guess.

They also have a smaller  3.75L. size for $39.95, special.And another 5 gallon size for $169.95......don't understand this one.
.

Cocosoya Oil -5 Gallon
Cocosoya Oil -5 Gallon
$194.95

https://www.pleasantridge.ca/index.php/horse-health.html?p=9


--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002


 


Re: Logan Insulin increase

Amy Veatch
 

The 10 - 40 uIU/mL on the Cornell lab report got me too. Ive been doing a lot of reading in the files and here is what ive gathered so far: turns out tge Cornell range (reference interval) is a reference range not a normal range (although it looks like one the way it's used in the report). You can search "VA Tech pony proxies" in the files and you will get info on what a normal range should look like, i.e.  less than 10-12 uIU/mL. From what i have read in the files, the lab reference range or interval Cornell cites includes all sorts of testing conditions that can increase insulin , such as: recent exercise before blood draw, recent high sugar and/ or starch meal, sudden cold temps, stress, etc. I'm sure there are lots of other factors more knowledgeable peeps can fill you in on.  The VA Tech pony study established a safe insulin range for both previously laminitic and non-laminitic ponies to keep them from slipping into endocrinopathic laminitis triggered by high insulin (i think i read somehere where Dr. K said that 80 uIU/mL was the tipping point there, but we'll see if someone else can give us confirmation on that. The  thing about the Cornell lab reference range is that it doesnt use any proxies to determine normal.  Their numbers are not adjusted to compensate for various feed/exercise etc. scenarios at the time of testing (and im not sure how one could normalize that kind of uncontrolled data anyway since there arent any standard calculations to adjust insulin results from all the various feeding and exercise states of the horses they tested. The pony proxies, on the other hand, provide a normal range when testing occurs in a fairly controlled and repeatable way--blood draw 4 to 6 hours after 1st meal of the day and horse steadily eating hay the whole time right up to blood draw.

I hope that helps and that someone will jump in if I've misstated anything.
--
Amy & Princess (12 year old KY Mtn Saddle mare) & Max (6 year old mini gelding) - both PPID/IR
Southeast TN, Joined 2019

Max:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Max
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=134444&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0

Princess:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Pincess

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=96097

 



Re: Any pelleted feed out there with no extra iron added?

 

I have been feeding Soyhull Pellets for years. They are not as tasty as the Stabul 1 pellets and they have no additional minerals/ingredients added to them for balancing. However, Soyhull pellets are a safe feed for IR horses and I pay about $7 per 50 lb bag. You have to do some searching by phone and word of mouth to find a mill that has soyhull pellets on hand. 

You need to locate a true feed mill (sometimes the term Elevator is in the mills name) that sell feed to farmers. They also may be making their own feed mixes for horse, goats, cows. The pellets is a common ingredient in feed mixes and may also be sold to farms by the ton. Mills that have soyhull pellets will fill bags for you and charge you by the pound.
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Group Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: Urgent advice please. Think I overdosed Savannah with pergoloide.

Pat Gauvreau <pgauvreau@...>
 

Lorna and Kathy
Received this back from Uckele this morning. And I’ll call Greenhawk to see what they carry. I would have thought Uckele would have told me they have Canadian distributors. Big oversight on their part if Greenhawk carry’s their products. 

Pat,

Thank you for contacting us! Unfortunately we do not ship our products to Canada.  We can only ship our products throughout the United States.  Please let us know if you have any other questions!

Sincerely,

Uckele Customer Service


--
Pat and Savannah
Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada
January 2018 

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Savannah
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=22028&p=pcreated,,,50,2,0,0


locked Re: Upward Fixating Patella Advice?

R. McCall
 

Thanks so much Bonnie. 
--
R.C. McCall
Western North Carolina 
Joined September 2019


Re: Jiaogulan quality

 

I’ve used both MBH and Uckele jiaogulan. The Uckele had a more smokey note that I found very appealing. My mares adore  both sources of JHerb. I fed it with maybe an ounce (3 tblspns) of dampened Stabul 1. My pickiest horse likes it so much I’ve used it to dust supplements. They like it more that CocoSoya. So if you experience an off odor, definitely contact the seller. The color ranges from almost tobacco colored from Uckele to pea green. Should have that dull, vaguely smokey scent. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History Folder                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History Folder              Diamond Photos 


Re: Logan Insulin increase

Lorna Cane
 

Irene, I only see 5mg of compounded pergolide reported in Logan's CH . Do you have current data to add, there and in other areas of the Case History?
Just wondering about the 2mg Prascend you mention in your message.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002


 


Re: Logan Insulin increase

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Irene,

Check out Dr. Kellon's explanation of 'nornal insulin'.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/245673?p=,,,100,0,0,0::Created,,normal+insulin,100,2,0,69649901

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002


 


Re: Logan Insulin increase

Irene Collins-Fotino
 

Hi Sherry,

Logan is on 2 mg Prascend and 5 mg Pergolide from Pet Health Pharmacy.
The vet is reluctant to increase his dosage. 
I doubt that the barn staff will r/s/r the beet pulp. I have asked before, but it
was not a welcomed suggestion. 

Best,

- Irene
--

Irene & Logan
NRC 2009
Hudson, NH

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9598

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Irene%20&%20Logan


Re: Logan Insulin increase

Irene Collins-Fotino
 

Hi All,

Please disregard that prevous email, it got away from me:

Hi Amy,

I'm not sure I understand your first sentence especially the part about that 10-11 is the target max.
The only thing I would add (besides I'm kind of surprised his insulin has been as close as it has to normal (keeping in mind that 10-11 is the target max) in the past with his ACTH numbers--wow!  those are really high)
The target range for insulin is 10-40. No he is not eating bananas or any treats as far as I know. 
Everyone at the barn knows he is a "no treat" horse. Of course we do get visitors from time to time
so that is an unknown. He does occasionally pull me and others to grass, but that is a momentary
issue. 

You're right  - his ACTH numbers are crazy high. I'm still trying to understand Dr. Kellon's remark
that there are horses with high ACTH that are "biologically inactive". I asked my vet about this
also and she said that he IS showing biological signs i.e., longer hair, insulin increase, dropped 
back (although his topline has increased substanially with the TriAmino acids). So if anyone
can explain this further, I would so appreciate it!

He seems to be doing well. I'm back to riding him - he has an issue with right-rear hamstrings,
so we are trying to be careful to work those. He has lots of energy.
I'm looking for some suggestions to replace the InsulinWise. 

Thank you all so much!
--

Irene & Logan
NRC 2009
Hudson, NH

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9598

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Irene%20&%20Logan


Re: Jiaogulan quality

mega
 

Thank you very much for your answers, Lorna and Dawn.
My IR/PPID mare, who gets only a small portion of feed does not seem to like it particularly, eats only a portion of her ration. I know, you are supposed to give it to them before feeding, the only way I could think is using a syringe and it is just a bit much. So I mix it with the feed, and just use a larger portion. The Uckele product always had this brownish color for as long as I am buying it, so that is why I was so suprised to see the somewhat bright green color. I get however the impression that maybe the product should be more greenish from what Dawn wrote. Maybe my mare will get used to it after a week or so. I think I will continue then to buy from mybesthorse.com.
Thank you again for your comments, I appreciate it.


--
Mega
Maryland
November 2019
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mega%20and%20Aine


Re: Logan Insulin increase

Irene Collins-Fotino
 

Hi Amy,

I'm not sure I understand your first sentence especially the part about that 10-11 is the target max.
The only thing I would add (besides I'm kind of surprised his insulin has been as close as it has to normal (keeping in mind that 10-11 is the target max) in the past with his ACTH numbers--wow!  those are really high)
The target range for insulin is 10-40. No he is not eating bananas or any treats as far as I know. 
Everyone at the barn knows he is a "no treat" horse. Of course we do get visitors from time to time
so that is an unknown. He does occasionally pull me and others to grass, but that is a momentary
issue. 

You're right  - his ACTH numbers are crazy high. I'm still trying to understand Dr. Kellon's remark
that there are horses with high ACTH that are "biologically inactive". I asked my vet 
He seems to be doing well. I'm back to riding him - he has an issue with right-rear hamstrings,
so we are trying to be careful to work those. He has lots of energy.
I'm looking for some suggestions to replace the InsulinWise. 
 
--

Irene & Logan
NRC 2009
Hudson, NH

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9598

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Irene%20&%20Logan


Re: Logan Insulin increase

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Irene,

Is Logan on pergolide or Prascend at this point in time?  If not he needs to be as that could be making his IR worse no matter what his diet is.  The beet pulp could be R/S/R even without molasses in it, but I would look to get that ACTH number under control as soon as possible.




Re: Transitioning from prascend to compounded pergolide

 

Cheryl here is a link to a message with helpful info and links to more messages. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/244830?p=,,,20,0,0,0::Created,,compounded+pergolide,20,2,0,69241073
When you first want more info about a subject please start by doing a search of the messages. There is a search block at the top of every page (see the top of this page) so just type something like "ordering compounded pergolide". 

Also we have excellent "Files" see the link to our files in the column on the left side of the Main Group page. If you open the files you will find the search box at the top of the page.
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Group Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album