Date   

Re: Help - prescription delay

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

 Most horses are OK for a few  days without it but you can also get Prascend from your vet.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


Re: Blood extraction protocol

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

 These are guidelines from Cornell: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/4%20Insulin%20Resistance/Links%20to%20Blood%20Testing%20Information%20at%20Cornell%20University%20Animal%20Health%20Diagnostic%20Center.pdf

Blood not separated from cells within an hour should not be used for glucose.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


Help - prescription delay

ladyofthewood3@...
 

Island Pharmacy was delayed sending out Rosie's prescription and I was late calling it in.  The result is we ran out.  Any suggestions on what to do?

She is on 1.5mg Pergolide

**her case history is not up to date....I have had chronic computer problems and have not been able to do it on my phone.  

Heather and Rosie
Ontario, Canada
Dec 2017
Rosie's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Rosie  
Hoof photos   https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=15867&p=pcreated,,,20,1,0,0


Blood extraction protocol

Maria Duran
 

Hi all!

Yesterday was talking with my vet about the protocol for testing glucose and insulin and there were some differences and interrogants. Could any knowledgeable person fill in the blanks of these sentences please?

Blood is extracted in horse eating hay but no concentrates at least 4 hours after the first meal if there is not hay available during the night and no longer than 6 hours after the first meal to avoid a "fasting" state (know it is not a real fasting). Can be extracted anytime if hay is available ad libitum or in periods of time of no more than 6 hours since the horse started eating in the case of meal feeding routines.

The blood is extracted and collected in a color ____ tube, then it has to be centrifugated before ____hours since the extraction and sent refrigerated at ____°C to the lab and arrived there before ____hours.
If an arriving time of ____hours to the lab is not possible, then the plasma has to be frozen at ____°C in a period of time of ____since collected and sent frozen to the lab. The frozen plasma can be stored frozen for ____days before sent to the lab.

If centrifugating the blood after extraction is not possible, then it must be sent refrigerated, sent and arrived to the lab before ____hours after the extraction.

Both glucose and insulin will lower if this protocol is not respected.

Thank you very much for your help.
--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album
_._,_._,_


Re: Trouble Uploading Case History

 

Hi Terri,

it looks as though you have not yet joined the Case History subgroup.  There are two Terri’s there but I don’t think either is you.  Along the left side of the ECIR page where you read messages is a listing which includes ‘Subgroups’.  If you go there, you will have the choice of joining several subgroups, including case history, hooves and Horsekeeping.  Each needs to be joined separately with its own signature file.
Once you find your way there, the instructions should make more sense.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: re-running bloodwork

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Did her ACTH go down with the Prascend increase? Do you have a case history? Can you get ODTB cubes instead of the Standlee timothy?

You only have to wait a few days to retest after a diet change. If you want to know if the change made a difference, wait to start Metformin.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


Message Posting Etiquette - Keeping ECIR User Friendly - Wed, 01/15/2020 #cal-notice

main@ECIR.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

Message Posting Etiquette - Keeping ECIR User Friendly

When:
Wednesday, 15 January 2020

Description:
Message Posting Etiquette

This is a high volume group that can be difficult to follow. Help make it easier for everyone by following the Message Posting Guidelines below:
1) Sign your posts. This is a very large group.  Whenever posting a message, identify yourself and your equine by using your full ECIR Signature with your first name, location, the date you joined and the links to your Case History folder and Photo Album. The volunteers need all this information to provide quality responses and suggestions for local support, vendors, vets and hoof care. 
 
2) Be clear in your posts. If you need to quote a line this is most easily done using the web to reply (not from email). Once you have the message you want to reply to on your screen, copy the text you want quoted, then paste it into the reply message composer.  Highlight the text you are quoting and then click on the quotation marks in the toolbar.  
3) Be considerate of the Support Team. They volunteer to help members in their spare time. Many have full time jobs. Unless you are in an emergency read the Start Here Files and check the archives to see if your question has been answered before.  Many new member's questions are answered there.
4) Discussion should always take place on the forums so all members can learn from the conversation and the support team can help clear up confusion.  
5)  Try not to hijack threads.  Start a New Message or change the subject line to discuss issues not covered by the subject line.
6) Don't immediately re-post.  Give “missing” posts a few hours before reposting. For unanswered messages, be patient. A lack of response is not personal or a reflection on you in any way. With so many posts some do get missed. Unless in an emergency situation, wait roughly 48 hours before re-posting and edit the subject line with "2nd Try". 
7) Off-topic but horse-related discussions: ECIR Horsekeeping Forum provides a place to discuss issues involving non-PPID/EMS horses, general horse keeping practices, other equine health issues, alternative therapies and any equine related philosophical debates.
8) All discussion about horses with PPID and EMS takes place in the ECIR Forum. Hoof related discussion for horses that do not have PPID/EMS takes place in the ECIR Hoof Forum
 Thank you for your cooperation.
 
- The ECIR Group support Team
 
 


re-running bloodwork

TERRI JENNINGS
 

I'm taking my 30 year old Shetland pony (IR, Cushings, Low Thyroid) mare Teeny off of Stabul 1.  Her insulin went from 70 to >200 after mineral balancing, transitioning from alfalfa pellets to Standlee Timothy pellets, raising her Prascent from 3 mg to 3.5 mg and adding 1 cup of Stabul 1 AM and PM.  I'm hoping it is the Stabul 1 that caused the increase.  How long after removing it should I wait to retest?   My vet is suggesting Metformin.  Should I wait for the next blood draw to make that decision or start it now?

I'm having trouble posting my case history but hope to have it up tomorrow.

Thanks for your help,
--
Terri Jennings
Arcata, CA
Joined 2019


Trouble Uploading Case History

TERRI JENNINGS
 

Hello,
I finally got my Case History Form filled out (mostly).
When I click on the link to make a folder, I don't get the option of making a new folder. I get a message that says "I am not subscribed to this group with this email".  However, I am obviously subscribed.

Help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Terri
--
Terri Jennings
Arcata, CA
Joined 2019


Re: Transitioning from prascend to compounded pergolide

Jan Petersen
 

Thank you both!! I appreciate the information.


--
Jan and RC
Stockertown, PA, USA
Feb 2018
RC Case History ( https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jan%20and%20RC )
RC Photos ( https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=42022&p=pcreated,,,50,2,0,0 )


Re: Logan Insulin increase

Nancy C
 

It could explain why some horses are not as sick as we might expect them to be but it's not a reason to not treat because that high ACTH is a marker of the disease and how well, or not, it is controlled.
This is a fundamental reason why ECIR Group needs the details of a Case History. Just one of many fundamental reasons why.

The devil is in the details.


--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA


Re: Logan Insulin increase

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

LJ,

There are only 2 studies on this. The first from 1982 and a second in 2011 which hasn't actually been formally published. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/thelaminitissite/acth-bioactive-v-immunoreactive-t19.html

They show that there are ACTH forms or ACTH-like substances in the pituitary of PPID horses that do not have the same hormonal activity but will cross-react on antibody based test assays.

This does NOT mean you can ignore the number. For one thing, the high number means that the pituitary intermediate lobe has uncontrolled output. It may not be all active ACTH but some certainly is and there are other active hormones being overproduced as well. It could explain why some horses are not as sick as we might expect them to be but it's not a reason to not treat because that high ACTH is a marker of the disease and how well, or not, it is controlled.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


Re: Logan Insulin increase

LJ Friedman
 

RE: inactive acth.
  I see this phrase being used only just recently... Is this new data that says we cant solely look at an acth number to see if we need to raise our ppid meds?  for ex...  there are no signs of colic, hair growth etc,,, and acth is high... Must the inactive be taken into account when deciding if an increase is needed??
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Transitioning from prascend to compounded pergolide

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I would like to emphasize here that there is not one shred of new evidence to show that cyproheptadine is useful in PPID. It was resurrected to give vets already using the top recommended dose of Prascend but without success something else to do.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


Re: Test results after Metformin

Cindy Giovanetti
 

It is 2 lbs. 10 oz. I’ll clarify it next time I’m in there.  The total is around 18 pounds._._,_._,_
--
Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas
On ECIR protocol since 2/19
https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/
History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden
Photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125


Re: Test results after Metformin

Lorna Cane
 

Cindy, just for clarity, when you say in the CH that Oden gets 2.10 ounces of the cubes, you are actually meaning 2 pounds,10 ounces ?

I notice that appearing several times recently, wheras previously you did  write pounds and ounces, to describe amount.

Someone looking for recent details  would know that's not enough ( 2.10 ounces) ,but would have to sort through the rest of the CH to figure it out, or ask for clarification.
If you *could*  edit that when time allows,it would be helpful.

Well done providing as many details as you do !

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002


 


Re: Urgent advice please. Think I overdosed Savannah with pergoloide.

Kathy Thomas
 


Re: Transitioning from prascend to compounded pergolide

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Jan,

How did your vet send the prescription in to Wedgewood?  If it was written as 2mg of pergolide as pergolide mesylate it's equivalent to 2 Prascend.  If it was not written that way it will be less.  

You can reference this post: Amount of pergolide in compounded capsules vs Prascend as well as this one: Re: Switching from Prascend to CP


As far as the sweating - that may be an indication that his PPID isn't as controlled as it should be so I would suggest bloodwork now rather than waiting until March and adjusting his dose of pergolide accordingly.  Cyproheptadine is an old treatment for PPID and from what I've read not a very reliable one.  You can read one study on it comparing it to using pergolide here: Treatment with Pergolide or Cyproheptadine of Pituitary Pars Intermedia Dysfunction (Equine Cushing's Disease)






Re: prevacox vs phyto quench (also Cur-ost)

 

Sorry Lorna, I'm looking at my old posts and noticed I missed replying to you.  Just in case it helps someone I'll reply to this old thread.
We are using the Curost EQ Pure
https://nouvelleresearch.com/index.php/product/cur-ost-eq-pure

I've been very happy with it but am reevaluating it due to cost.  Trying the Phyto Quench pellets since they are tasty now. and I noticed it also has Tumeric. 
He started being ouchy this fall and I thought it was the arthritis getting worse.  Turns out it was an abscess and I've been lax on my oversight.
I'll be uploading my updated case history and bloodwork in a few days.  


Re: Is anyone giving 3 Prascend?

Nancy C
 

In addition to Kirsten's suggestion, let me also add this message with links  to the pergolide database raw data.  It's a fairly large spreadsheet and takes some study, but you can see a number of folks with much higher dosages.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/241883?p=,,,100,0,0,0::Created,,posterid%3A205+granular,100,2,0,34560691

My gelding was on 14 mg compound in the end.  Even 5 mg of Prascend did not control his PPID.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA