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Re: Bali - New Member - Hoping for hoof balance input by 2/25/2020

Mel V
 

Lavinia,

Thank you!  I'll be taking my computer out to the barn with me in the morning.  I will also get all the photos after we finish. I am planning on keeping her in shoes, she is much more comfortable.  I can move her to a 3 or 4 week schedule if I need to.  I'd like to keep her exercised, and I think if we pull shoes she'll end up quite uncomfortable.  

Thanks for the color coding and thorough explanations.  

The broken back HPA probably explains her discomfort in her RH recently.  

Thank you again.  The mark ups make it so much easier to understand, and I appreciate the time you've taken.  

--
Mel & Bali
Joined ECIR 2/23/2020
Purcellville, Virginia, USA
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mel%20and%20Bali
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=241764


Re: labeling hoof pix

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

You can tell which foot it is if there are other legs, parts of the body or a tail in the picture as points of reference. Without that, it can be rather difficult to know for certain whether you are looking at a lateral or medial view and of which limb. It also takes extra time to sit and decipher those clues so your volunteers appreciate you taking the time to identify the feet so it takes the guesswork out.

It would be great to see how they are doing.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Bali - New Member - Hoping for hoof balance input by 2/25/2020

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

Hi Mel,

I've added some mark-ups to Bali's album:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=241764

As was mentioned before, there is a lot of excess toe length that needs to be removed on all four feet. This refers to the horizontal length at ground level. That should be the primary goal of this trim. The alignment of the dorsal wall is another matter and is more a cosmetic than functional issue. The breakover needs to move back so that it is positioned where the bony column needs it to be. The HPA (hoof-pastern axis) on all four is broken back to some degree - meaning the coffin bone dips down and away from aligning properly with the rest of the pastern bones. This is the opposite of having coffin bone rotation. Although the heels are underrun, because of the already-too-low position of the back half of the foot relative to the front, they need to be left alone to gain some height to help support the rear of the foot in a better position.

LF lateral composite: The picture of the LF is not a true lateral so please bear this in mind as it throws off the mark-up somewhat. In the radiograph portion, the pink line is how the bony column should align. It ends where the toe at ground level should end - everything beyond this point is excess horizontal length. The purple line is how the bony column actually lines up - note how it dips somewhat down and away from the pink line. That is a broken back HPA. Blue lies are the trim lines, with the blue X denoting all the excess toe length that needs to come off. Green line is a visual marker only, NOT a trim line. Note that is runs parallel to the pink line. Because there is a bit of extra sole depth in the front half of the foot, the trim line along the bottom of the foot is a slight wedge that is thicker at the front half, tapering down to nothing at the heels. This will start to help get rid of the broken back HPA.Frogs should be left alone
In the photo part, the blue area corresponds to the blue lines and X on the rad. The green line is the same as the one on the rad. The orange line shows where the heels should be located.

LH composite: Same general comments as for the LF. Note that the HPA is much more broken back than in the front.

RF lateral rad: Same general comments are for the LF.

RH lateral rad: The HPA is severely broken back. The pink, purple and green lines are the same as on the other three feet but you can see how much distortion there is in their relative locations. This is placing enormous strain on the tendons and ligaments running down the back of Bali's leg as they are always in an overextended state. The joint capsule is being stretched in the back half while being compressed in the front half. The position of the coffin bone in relation to P2 may also be causing the bones to rub as the joint flexes.
Again, the goal is to increase the plantar angle by allowing more vertical height to develop in the back half of the foot.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: How much copper and zinc to feed

Sherry Morse
 

Jonni,

Is this mini IR or PPID?  If so, is it eating tested hay?  Have you had the hay mineral balanced?  That's what you need to have done to know how much copper and zinc to feed.




Re: I.r. horse questioning joint injections

Sherry Morse
 

Jonni,

You're getting replies in digest form but you can always look online as well to see all the answers.




How much copper and zinc to feed

Jonni Jump
 

How much poly copper and poly zinc should I feed a 250 pound miniature horse?
I get the powder from California trace.com 

--
Jonni Jump
June, 2018
Augusta Ga.
Mirage i.r. friesian/ssh mare 
Mirage:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=60938
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jonni,%20Mirage,%20and%20Lily 
Lily:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=80272


Re: I.r. horse questioning joint injections

Jonni Jump
 

I'm not getting any replies so I'm posting everyday until I get answers 
--
Jonni Jump
June, 2018
Augusta Ga.
Mirage i.r. friesian/ssh mare 
Mirage:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=60938
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jonni,%20Mirage,%20and%20Lily 
Lily:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=80272


Suspect i.r. mare shivering

Jonni Jump
 

My suspected i.r. mare has been shaking when it's cold and raining she has never been like that in the 10 years I have had her. 
I am blanketing her now when it gets below 40 and rain.
She has access to free choice hay and tree for shelter.
Would that be a symptom should I test her ACTH?
--
Jonni Jump
June, 2018
Augusta Ga.
Mirage i.r. friesian/ssh mare 
Mirage:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=60938
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jonni,%20Mirage,%20and%20Lily 
Lily:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=80272


Re: I.r. horse questioning joint injections

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Jonni,

I think you are missing a lot of messages, answering your questions.

Here's the latest one from Maxine:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/246981

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002


 


I.r. horse questioning joint injections

Jonni Jump
 

I haven't had my mare tested but I suspect she has i.r. 
She recently injured her shoulder and was on previcoxx for 40 days and got better but now she bucked around and is lame again. 
Should I have her tested or keep her on the previcoxx? 
Or should I try cbd or msm?
I am still struggling with white line separation 
She gets recommend diet and on a dry lot so I'm not sure what else to do. She needs exercise but she can't because she's lame.
--
Jonni Jump
June, 2018
Augusta Ga.
Mirage i.r. friesian/ssh mare 
Mirage:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=60938
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jonni,%20Mirage,%20and%20Lily 
Lily:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=80272


Re: labeling hoof pix

 

LJ, use a sharpie pen and write directly on the hoof. Great example in this album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9848&p=Name,,,50,2,0,0 
I'd probably use "H" for the hinds instead of "R" but it's very clear which hoof is which.

Then after you upload your pictures, you can rename each photo right in Jesse's photo album using the Edit button under each photo and then click Update. Regretfully, like all careful work, it's work.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History Folder                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History Folder              Diamond Photos 


new member, high TRH response ACTH what to do???

Andrea Carr-Evans
 

Hi,
I am a new member and have waited to post till I could fill in my CH and get all my test results in.  My horse Tasman is a 16 year old Morgan gelding that pretty much showed no signs of anything till last fall when he became very lethargic. I don't want to go into the entire history in this email (I wrote a short synopsis in my CH) and finally tested for PPID at the end of November using TRH response ACTH.  He was pre:35 (ref 9-35) and post: 556 ref (9-110).  Due to the fact that he was showing other medical issues (anemia and ulcers) and I was leaving the country for 3 weeks, we  treated him for the stomach ulcers while I was away.  And didn't want to put him on Prascend till I was around to watch to keep an eye on his food intake and attitude.  My barn is a bit "no nonsense" and "bare bones"... they feed and look out for the welfare of the animals but there are 16 horses and one person who does all the work. 

When I got back to town Tasman had to be scoped again to check out his ulcers and was found to have ulcers in his hind gut and was still anemic.  We put him on gastrogard and started him on 1/2 pill of Prascend for 6 days, then 1 pill going forward.  This started on 30 Dec 2019.  He was on a 28 day regimen of gastrogard. One of the many great things about Tasman is that he eats anything... he never lost his appetite on the Prascend and took the gastrogard every morning like a champ. 

The ulcers have healed pretty well.  He's still on many supplements (see his CH for details) but his Insulin seems to be under control and his attitude and activity level are great.

I had another set of blood draws done last week and the TSH response ACTH only went down to pre: 33.1 ref (9-35) post: 420 (ref 9-110). 

Last March I did a "regular" ACTH test and it was 27.5 ref (9-35).... 

As a note:  he has never been lame (knock on wood)... he has begun shedding (I'm in Massachusetts).  

Vet said only fat pockets were behind his scapula, and gave him a 5+ to 6 on the body conditioning scale. Said his weight was pretty good, we just need to build back up his top line and muscle tone that he lost last fall when he got "not quite right".

So now the questions are:
1-  Do I need to increase his pergolide/Prascend to a level to get the TSH response ACTH down to the reference level?
2-  What should I be looking out for if I keep him at the level he's at now? 
3-  When should I test again?  And how often?
4-  Any other recommendations?

thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide.  Tasman has been a big question mark to my local vets these past 4 months trying to figure things out.


--
Andrea + Tasman
2020 January  Boston, MA
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Andrea%20and%20Tasman/Tasman%20Case%20History.pdf


Re: Update on Riosa -

hdavis
 

So Rio was better this am as not as foot sore but also in boots too.  No pulses and her puffy eyes have gone down a bit. Crest was still hard.  I gave her another 5mg of estradiol as well as her omeprazole this am.  I wonder if a conflict of giving both at the same time?  Does the omeprazole block the estradiol?  Just thought of this now.

I came home and she is still walking well with boots on but decided to take them off for overnight to dry her feet out as now snowing here a lot and it is on top of frozen icy areas so slippery.  Her crest seems to have grown since I left this am.  No pulses or shifting weight but I am pretty stressed about this crest issue.  Eyes to me are puffier as well.  I decided to switch her back to a lower s and a hay that is also lower in protein to see if that helps.

I am wondering what I can do to reduce her insulin gas I’m sure it is high due to the crest and eyes. Should I give some metformin?  Should I stop estradiol or give it at a diff time than the omeprazole?  I am wondering if that is the issue of why it hasn’t reduced the crest?  Help please as I just don’t want to push her over the edge more.


Thanks in advance! 
--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa Case History
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

 Photos

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0  .


Storm

Case History



photos

 
 

 




Re: Invokana doses

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Kim,

Please ask your vet to e-mail me so I can send background information and management precautions. Will send dosing information at the same time.  Send to drkellon "at" gmail.com.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Linseed

jessica skene
 

Hi all!!

I have 2 questions about linseed

1- we are not supposed to give high protein food to our laminitic horses, so why are we giving around like 90g of linseed which is 33% protein?

2- is this true that ground linseed should not be wet as it can excrete some toxic compound once wet? I mix mine to beet pulp and my mare can eat eat after 3 to 6h only so... should I worry?
--
Jessica Skene  - Abitibi, Québec, Canada
Sonara => Canadian X QH mare , 13 years old, historic of founder and Laminitis, IR / EMS

october 2017

Link to case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20Skene%20and%20Sonara/SonaraCaseHistory2019.pdf
Link to album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=10295&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Link to hay analysis: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20Skene%20and%20Sonara/analysedefoin.pdf


urine test for jesse on invokana

LJ Friedman
 

  i tested jesses urine today  leukocyte ,nitrite, blood, and protein all looked good.  long live invokana and long live jesse
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: New Member - Need Trim/Balance Mark up if possible by 2/25/2020 #understandingtrim

Mel V
 

Sherry,

I had just found that earlier today, and it is up on another tab on my browser!  I had been reading one of the older files on converting the lab units to calculate the G/I ratio, but it was late, and I just went to bed. 

I'll ask for the cost differential.  It is usually less expensive when the clinic sends the labs out.  There is a premium on them using the in-house equipment.  

Everyone is in dry lots today, because it is raining.  Luckily I have 3 fatties, so I always have someone to rotate into dry lots with Bali for company, and I have plans to add another dry lot on the other side of my farm, because right now, she gets distressed if I'm rotating the other horses to that side as they are separated. 
--
Mel & Bali
Joined ECIR 2/23/2020
Purcellville, Virginia, USA
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mel%20and%20Bali
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=241764


Re: labeling hoof pix

Sherry Morse
 

While it's great that your farrier doesn't need a label not everybody on this group who will be looking at the pictures can tell which hoof is which.  Also, when you ask for feedback would you prefer to get back:

For 20200209_112847.jpg....

or would you prefer

For the right front....

One of those is much clearer than the other.




Re: New Member - Need Trim/Balance Mark up if possible by 2/25/2020 #understandingtrim

Mel V
 

Eleanor,

Bali is on the Prascend - adding a timeline in bullet format to attempt to improve readability/clarity:
  • Aug 28 - Mid Nov. 2019 - 1 mg
    •  lame, but the giant hole in her foot was cause...I'll add pictures, she had developed a false sole around the infection.
  • Mid Nov 2019 - Feb 1, 2020 
    • .5 mg, improving soundness, light riding, increasing with soundness  I had a dressage instructor/judge (they're good at seeing uneven and irregular steps) watch her go at the end of December, she was looking good, a few off steps in trot, and she warmed up out of those, I was thinking if there might be some sort of scar tissue in the LF around that infection area.  It had been around the DDFT.  I decided to schedule a vet appointment for xrays and anything else needed.
  • Feb 1-17 - stopped Prascend, vet said she needed at least 2 weeks off to retest.
    • Feb 17, retested with TRH test, results in her case file.  Had a lesson during this time with same person Feb 8, and Bali looked/felt really sound, rode 2 or 3 more times that week, she still felt good.
  • Feb 19 - started back on Prascend 1 mg
    • Bali felt NQR to ride on Feb 21/22.  
  • Feb 25 - reduced Prascend to .5 based on titrating advice here
    • I'll see how she feels after we do her feet tomorrow morning.
    • I'll have the vet pull blood for her ACTH levels on March 6 when he is out. 

--
Mel & Bali
Joined ECIR 2/23/2020
Purcellville, Virginia, USA
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mel%20and%20Bali
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=241764


Re: New Member - Need Trim/Balance Mark up if possible by 2/25/2020 #understandingtrim

LJ Friedman
 

i didn’t recognize the nqr acronym.   i had to google. it.   not quite right.   fwiw
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 

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