Date   

Re: Diagnosing PPID in spring-summer

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Maria,

Line by line answers here:

Yes, and there may also be an element of middle lobe enlargement.

If the horse had no past or present symptoms, no laminitis history or high insulin, that reading would be a grey zone and I probably wouldn't treat.

The natural progression of the disease has not been well studied.

Fall is the start of decreased fertility or anestrus in horses.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Possible NASTY abscess (a bit long)

Portagecreek
 

I have been away for awhile but a new bout of abscesses has come around. (Main questions in bold below) A couple weeks ago my guy slipped on the ice and went down onto both front knees. This was followed by swelling, heat and digital pulse in the LF, some swelling up the pastern and leg. My vet examined him, prescribed Bute to get the swelling down. I knew I shouldn't give it him but the leg was so stocked up. A few days after Bute, we suspect ulcers came back and he stopped all 'meals' and hay only. I started aloe right away (1/2C) but he was not interested in any supplements/hay pellets. We were on a great diet of MadBarn, jiagoluan and Mov-Ease....now it's all off the table!

On this past Monday, he started getting a muscle spasm/tremor in his RIGHT front tricep area and some heat in his right front hoof. This gradually worsened - the tremors and unwilling to bear weight (but mind you still recovering from a draining abscess on the LEFT front). We thought it may be an abscess. Given the whole virus situation, vets are only doing emergency calls but I did pick up Omeprazole to start and sent him a video of the muscle spams and continuous shifting of the legs. He agreed it was most likely an abscess but he has difficultly standing on the other leg to be investigated by our farrier.
5 days later, the tremoring is worsened and he can hardly stand to bear weight, it's getting worse, which may be 'good' news (but I am on the verge of mental breakdown! :))
We have been able to very quickly clean out and apply a home made poultice (our tack supply stores are closed completely so I am out of Animalintex poultice and using a diaper, Epsom salts, warm water and ACV).

I am quite sure this is a terrible abscess but you know how we second guess these things and watching them in pain is awful. He's laying down a lot now, to relieve pain I am sure. I am concerned that he gets cold from laying on the wet ground (it's still winter here, snowing today), and isn't eating while laying down.
Thoughts on laying down a lot?
Anyone else had muscle tremors/spasms due to an abscess lasting a week?
IS my DIY poultice OK? (keep in mind, pandemic, basically have common household ingredients)
About how long before you have noticed improvement with appetite on Omeprazole?
--
Natalie

New Brunswick, Canada

2019

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tane%20and%20Natalie/Tane%20Case%20History%2012312019.pdf

Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95995


Re: Need help with long term diet

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The TC product we were talking about here is the Naturals Timothy Balance Cubes.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Need help with long term diet

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Nina,

As Sherry said, until we know how much he is being fed, by weight, we can't know what is needed.
I worry about a 15hh horse being fed only 8 lbs. of hay,nothing else to speak of.

Good idea about getting a luggage scale. Then you will know how to proceed.
Let us know,when you do,ok?

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002


 


Re: Need help with long term diet

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Nina,

Did you remember to hit Save ?

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002


 


Re: Need help with long term diet

NinaJW
 

Thanks Lorna! I think I did it :)
--
Nina and Jadon
Kentucky 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nina%20and%20Jadon


Re: Need help with long term diet

NinaJW
 



On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 10:03 PM Lorna in Ontario <windybriars@...> wrote:
Hi Nina,

You got it! He's handsome.

Now ,can you go back to the signature box ,in Subscription and add the Photo link.....https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=244202
to your signature.......remembering to hit Save.

In your other post ,did you mean he is only being fed 8 pounds a day of hay, or did I misunderstand?

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002

--

 Yes. About 8 lbs is what I can get in the bag plus what he eats in the paddock with his muzzle on. If he eats much more I’ll never get the weight off him. Although I should note I am guessing. I cannot find a scale anywhere except a luggage scale on Amazon which would probably work. Money, money and more money.. lol :) Thanks for the compliment on him. I hope I can get him back to showing his leg stripes and shading. One photo (with snow) is from the winter I first bought him. He was a whale!!!




--
Nina and Jadon
Kentucky 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nina%20and%20Jadon


Re: Need help with long term diet

lvbnazgrl@...
 

There is a question/answer page "from their nutrition experts" on the Triple Crown site.  I called them to confirm.  
  In a conversation with a nutritionist who studied with you, it was suggested that I offer my PPID horse Triple Crown Lite if I was unable to find Mountain Sunrise Timothy Pellets.  I also had the iron content confirmed by TC in a telecon.  Some of the labels also show the iron content..I believe TC Lite is one of them.  

--
S Day in AZ 2020


Case Histories: What You Need To Know - Sat, 04/04/2020 #cal-notice

main@ECIR.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

Case Histories: What You Need To Know

When:
Saturday, 4 April 2020

Description:

Your equine's Case History is the most important step to be completed upon joining the ECIR Group. It is critical for obtaining timely and specific advice from the support team.   

 

If you are a long time member, migrated from Yahoo, please be aware there are changes in how information is to be properly posted.  We also have a new case history form. If your case history does not contain the IR Calculator Table please transfer all your information on to the new form. The new uploading rules and instructions are located at the bottom of the case history form

 

We take the importance of accurate information very seriously. The information in our posts and case histories is of tremendous value to all our members. To help protect the data and your privacy only members of the main ECIR Group are granted access to the Case History Group.  If you are concerned about privacy you need only give your first name and general location.  The use of pseudonyms to keep your equine professionals anonymous is encouraged. Please review the ECIR Group Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

 

Don't delay posting or updating your case history. 

Missing information it can be added as you obtain it. The faster your case history is completed with what you currently know, the faster you will receive the best support from the support team. 

 

Please take the time to update your Case History.  An up-to-date case history is invaluable when an equine emergency crops up. Accurate documentation of management changes, the equine's responses, blood work results and links to the equine's photo album not only helps the ECIR Group gain the trust and respect of science-based equine professionals but can be used by vets who are on the ground trying to help your horse. Your Case History is the best way to effectively monitor and illustrate the results in PPID and IR management changes. 

 

Please leave all your information uploaded. When the time comes that you or your equine no longer need the advice of the ECIR Group, please leave your case history folder intact. Your information will be used in the future to confirm or re-shape ECIR protocols and help other members learn.  This is the best way to “give back” to the ECIR for the help you and your horse have received. 

 

Photos go in the Case History Photo Section.  Please help the Support Team work as efficiently as possible. Read How to Make a Photo Album for the rules and follow the Naming Pattern for photos so the Support Team can quickly locate the photos they need to see.  

 

Thank you for your cooperation, 

The Owners and Support Team of the ECIR Group

 


Re: Need help with long term diet

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Nina,

You got it! He's handsome.

Now ,can you go back to the signature box ,in Subscription and add the Photo link.....https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=244202
to your signature.......remembering to hit Save.

In your other post ,did you mean he is only being fed 8 pounds a day of hay, or did I misunderstand?

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002

--

 


Re: Need help with long term diet

NinaJW
 

They finally uploaded but I’m not sure I connected it to his case history? I followed directions but I may have missed something:/
--
Nina and Jadon
Kentucky 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nina%20and%20Jadon


Re: Need help with long term diet

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Nina,

I think this  is the link to Nadon's photos. But I don't see any photos.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=244202

Could you have forgotten to hit Save somewhere?
Or ?

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002


 


Re: Need help with long term diet

NinaJW
 

I called all over the area and no can or is currently testing hay. I did remove salt pellets and msm pellets from his supplements. He exercises in the round pen daily for 10-15 minutes a day. Having been out of any work for years, it is a process. I can give him his supplements without grain. For now he will remain on approximately 8 lbs (Max) in a slow feeder, his Teff and Orchard. He goes out in a muzzle even though his paddock has not had much grass return yet. I have the APF ordered and will give Pergolide another try. He gets hooves done Tuesday and I will post hoof picks after. For now I did add body pics and one hoof pic to the folder.
--
Nina and Jadon
Kentucky 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nina%20and%20Jadon


Re: Diagnosing PPID in spring-summer

Maria Duran
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon,
 
So can I conclude that the excesive rise in fall for early PPID is due to the temporary insensivity to dopamine added to the already loss of dopaminergic neurons? 
 
Would you treat an older horse with no other symptoms than a 70 or 80 pg/ml in fall?

How advanced PPID has to be for the horse to have an elevated ACTH the whole year? I am shocked when horse have in fall 400 or 600 pg/ml
and then in may for example they are totally fine.

By seasonal fertility do you mean higher or lower?
 
Thanks for the great info.
--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album
_._,_._,_


Re: Need help with long term diet

 

are you referencing the Timothy cubes, or the Timothy BALANCE cubes ?? 
 

--
Ellen
Pal & Savvy
N. Alabama
Aug 2013
Case History 


Re: Diagnosing PPID in spring-summer

 

Excellent information!!  Thanks for the question and the answer :)
 
 

--
Ellen
Pal & Savvy
N. Alabama
Aug 2013
Case History 


Re: Step counter

Lorna Cane
 

I can't answer this, Pat. 
But I would think her hoof marks would give you a good idea of where she goes. The depth/degree of wear of the tracks will hint at how often she  goes where.
Maybe this doesn't fit your footing situation,though.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002


 


Re: Step counter

 

The newer one's might work.  But they will significantly overstate the steps.  They record acceleration and deceleration.  Likely, a horse will quadruple.  I know this because of issues with pacemakers and people riding horses with them.  If you have a pacemaker that actually sets its own pace (as opposed to just being a simple "jumper cable" between chambers of the heart) you cannot ride a horse because it will way over boost the heart beats because it thinks you are running at top speed..  My guess is a multiple of four, at least.



--
Gail Russell 8/30/2008

 

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Gail%20and%20Brother%20-%20Odin%20-%20Decaffe%20%20-Gunthar .


Re: Invokana dose and pharmacies

Kim Rice
 

Hi Dr. Kellon,

I am not sure where to look for the information about using Invokana and urine test.  Could you please reply with the correct place to research this?

Thank you,
--
Kim R, Lafayette, CA  2019
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Shomee


Step counter

Pat Gauvreau <pgauvreau@...>
 

Has anyone used a human step counter on their horse to see how many steps they actually take in a 24 hour period?  Also can they be strapped to ankle. I’ve just started turning Savannah out in 100’ x 25’ paddock for extra self exercise and wondering if she’s using it much. 
--
Pat and Savannah
Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada
January 2018 

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Savannah
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=22028&p=pcreated,,,50,2,0,0

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