Date   

Re: Killing grass safely in dirt paddock and under fence line

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Tara,

A mix of vinegar, liquid dish soap and salt sprayed onto the growth will work.

Lots of discussion regarding this topic on the ECIR Horsekeeping sub-group:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/Horsekeeping

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: seem Flax

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Reta,

You definitely should be using stabilized flax if it is being purchased already ground as that is the only way to know it won't be rancid at the time of purchase (or shortly thereafter). Once it's ground, it needs to be kept refrigerated and has a shelf life of approximately 2 weeks before it starts to turn bad (unless it is stabilized). Here's a message from Dr. Kellon regarding mineral  ixes:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/206181

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Zoetis Core EQ Innovator vaccine

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Dawn,

Whether to vaccinate, and for what, are decisions that need to be made based on discussion with your vet on the prevalence of the diseases in your area; on the severity of the disease in question; as well as the likelihood your horses will come into contact with the disease. I know you know this.

In my area, the Fort Dodge (now Zoetis) vaccines have always been the ones most prone to eliciting reactions. I don't know if the formulations have changed since the merger of the companies. You can use banamine/bute to help prevent or lessen any negative responses but that will also blunt the entire immune response to some degree, so needs to be considered in the overall pros and cons.

To me, the biggest issue is that a 5 way vaccine is still inoculating for 5 diseases at once. This means the immune system is being asked to simultaneously ramp up protection for five separate diseases. Does this impact the quality of the response? Will it tip a sensitive horse over the edge?

The biggest pro to me is convenience: the savings in time and farm call fees stemming from multiple vet visits to administer the vaccinations separately.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Killing grass safely in dirt paddock and under fence line

Tara Smith
 


-- Hi ,hope this finds everyone very well and safe !Hoping for advise as to how to get rid of and kill grass in sections in 24/7 turn out /living area for my horses and grass under fence lines .I have to do it myself so anything that may prove to be easy and achievable and safe for the horse if something need to be used to kill grass?,Thank you
Tara and Gavilon
Mass.  Nov 2017
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tara%20and%20Gavilon

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=11449


Updated Case History with Bloodwork

Tiffany
 

Here's the lastest bloodwork for Hollywood via his updated case history. I didn't see a place for the TRH stim test so I noted his ACTH numbers before/after with reference range. I noticed the doctor forgot to include results for the glucose like I asked but did insulin and leptin. He stated the numbers were normal but I did notice the insulin was on the higher side. He did not have breakfast but he pulled the insulin after the TRH stim test, not sure if that matters. It was also cold and windy that day. Doc also said his digital pulse was normal and no response to hoof testers again this time so that was good. I also submitted my hay test to Equi-Analytical for the 603. Does anyone know how long it typically takes for those to run? Then I will work on getting his diet balanced.

Thanks!
--
Tiffany
Lincoln County, MO
April 2020
Hollywood Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tiffany%20and%20Hollywood
Hollywood Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245376


Re: IR/Cushingoid horsekeeping in the Los Angeles area?

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Alanna,

For you, and others who haven't found this trick yet, if you go to Valeree's message, hit Reply, and look in bottom R corner of the Reply page , you'll see a Private box. Click on it.
Then when you are ready to send to Valeree, click on Reply to Sender, bottom L of page.

Bob's your uncle.😊

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002


 


Re: IR/Cushingoid horsekeeping in the Los Angeles area?

coffincomplex@...
 

Valeree, can you send me an email? I don't see any way to get your contact info. I thought it was just an issue on my phone, but now I'm on my computer and all I can do is "contact sender", but that links back to me, not you, via my original message.
coffincomplex@...

Thanks!
--
Alanna
May 2018
South Bend, IN
Buster's case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Alanna%20and%20Buster  .


Re: Selenium deficient

celestinefarm
 

Beth,
I live in a notoriously low selenium area in the Great Lakes. My neighbor milked around 120 head of Holsteins for decades and several years ago, suddenly started having calf after calf born weak that only survived for a day or so. He finally grabbed one right after birth, put it in the cab of his pick up and drove it straight to Michigan State. It died shortly after arrival, but the diagnosis was WMD. Had his custom supplement mix tested, that was supposed to have selenium in it, and voila, no selenium of measurable usefulness. Different custom mix company and no more problems. 

I also have had vets who routinely give a selenium/vit E injection to the foal as part of the foal check after birth.  May be something to discuss with your vet.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Re: seem Flax

JouleT
 

I would definitely recommend stabilized if you are buying it ground. Non-stabilized ground flax has a very short shelf life. I personally buy whole seed and grind right before feeding. 

Joule

On May 12, 2020, at 5:55 AM, Reta Heaslip <reta.rh@...> wrote:


--
Joule Tallman
Barefoot Trimmer
Saskatchewan, Canada 🇨🇦 
Member since 2019


Re: Selenium deficient

Frances C.
 

What is her breed? Warm Blood? Paso Fino? An 88 lb foal is pretty small for a horse. You must be doing something right in horsekeeping to have such long lived horses. Congratulations! I know the heartbreak of loosing foals. Has the stallion and mare been tested for inheritable genetic diseases? Is the mare in pain? Was the placenta normal size? Is she fit and strong enough to carry a foal to term? Ask yourself these questions. I wonder about "selenium deficiency" - perhaps it is a symptom of something else. Could the banamine or  smz got into the foal via the milk? As an aside I quit giving my broodmares anti-abortion shots after loosing the foals 24-48 hours after administration - just sickening even to this day and that was almost 20 years ago.
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Selenium deficient

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Hi Beth,

Nice to hear from you anyway!

I can't tell you why, but the bottom line reason is the diet was low enough in selenium to trigger an obvious deficiency disease in the foals. Could be forage coming from a different reason or change in soil selenium levels from different fertilizer or different water supply. You should be fine after about a month of selenium yeast supplementation but check her whole blood selenium level to be sure. Check vitamin E too.

This is a good example of how you can often  "get away with" nutrient deficiencies and imbalances in healthy adults but increasing age and other stresses, like pregnancy, can tip them over the edge into a full blown classical deficiency. Less dramatic consequences may include unexplained anemia, muscle/nerve signs, poor immunity, low thyroid function, hoof and coat issues. 
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: IR/Cushingoid horsekeeping in the Los Angeles area?

coffincomplex@...
 

Dawn, I don't expect any such issues. I transported them out here from California with no problems. The trip is expected to take 3 days and giving meds is no issue. The horses were born and lived most of their lives in a climate that reaches 110 in the summer. They're certainly better off in a  climate that doesn't include 8 months of snow, ice, frozen mud, and sub-zero temps, not to mention the near- impossibility of finding dry lot for the warm months for the IR guy. 
--
Alanna
May 2018
South Bend, IN
Buster's case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Alanna%20and%20Buster  .


Re: seem Flax

Reta Heaslip
 


Re: Zoetis Core EQ Innovator vaccine

millionairess1989
 

Hi Dawn,

Mill, my 31 year old PPID & IR pacemaker dependent Arabian mare and Jack, my 21 year old IR TN Walker both received the vaccine with no problems along with floating. Mill's was without sedation and Jack's with.

I would have done it last year but didn't find out about the vaccine until after spring vaccinations were given.

Our Zoetis rep spoke at the vet clinic at which I work. She said that the rate of reactions was actually very small compared to some of the other vaccines but I forget the percent. Of course that doesn't help if it's your horse.
--
Jennifer & Mill & Jack
Middle TN  2010

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Millionairess

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=831

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Jack-TN%20Walker


Selenium deficient

bkennalley
 

Hi Dr Kellon 
Long time no talk!
And this is a horrible topic but I’m hopeful you can help. 
We (my daughter actually) bred a horse and we have had tragically lost the baby. 
Starting from the beginning tho, we bred her two years ago and confirmed her pregnancy at 45 days. But at 5 mo, just before the first pneumabort she slipped. We didn’t find the fetus. 
She was bred again in spring and settled well again. So on the advise of the repro vet started pneumabort at 3 mo. 
Of note at about the time of the first pregnancy check I noticed she had very tight hamstrings and a stringhalt like walk. We did some stretching and it didn’t progress or get better. 
Fast forward to Easter night, she snuck in delivery of her 88 lb colt between our checks. He was up dry and nursing. However her placenta retained. Vet came by 11 and flushed and got the placenta out. Foal check he looked great. The IGG was early but over 800 so we were good. 
Mare got smz for 14 days and Banamine for a week for the placenta retention. 
Monday he did great all day. Tuesday day time was ok but that evening he was pretty sleepy and was sterna but didn’t get up. Then lied back down. We let him nap a half hour then my daughter got him up, hind end weak but once up he walked and nurses and didn’t lay down so she left them be about 11. 
Wednesday morning at 8 feeds we found the foal dead. No trauma. Appears to have been during sleep. 
We took him for necropsy. 
Absolutely nothing wrong except extreme selenium deficiency. 
Ugh. I will forever kick myself for this. She is a super easy keeper and never needed grain. So I never gave her any! So... I never gave her supplements! What was I thinking? Argh!!!
So. She is also kinda old. But has awesome old bloodlines that you just can’t get anymore. So we are try again. And I must never have this happen again. 
We started her on 1 qt strategy gx plus a 1 oz scoop CA Trace twice a day. I guess that gives her about 2.5 mg/day. 
Is that adequate? Should I give her BoSe? I have some. 
She was bred today, had a 43 mm follicle on the right. Day 28. Got HCG. Fingers crossed. (Live cover so will get to decide if she’s needing another cover Wednesday, up to her)
But. Did I mention I can’t let this happen again????
And here’s the other part.... just this month, I have heard of two other deaths with the same symptoms and story. And one who is alive and at UCDavis. With confirmed white muscle disease too. 
I have heard of WMD but have never heard of a real case of it. And now 4?? And seriously all I hear from all of my Equine community is that this year many foals are dying. 
Why???? 
What is different??
Do I need to supplement my other horses. Most are well into their 20’s now. One is 35!!! He has cushings of course. Lol
One is about 28, he’s my longest pergolide boy, I think he’s been on for 13 years now. Went up last year from 3 to 4 mg. This winter his left front carpus developed a huge mass/ cystic formation? I dunno but it’s time to let him go. But he’s not been lame really before. So he’s been a Pergolide success. 

Can you lend some help for my mare?? We may only have this year left to get a foal from her. She’s 24 now!! 
Her name is Conejos Ooo La Cha Cha. We call her Cha Cha. 
Her foal was Whiskey (Sire is Tequila) 


Beth Kennalley 
In CA

_._,_._,_


Re: IR/Cushingoid horsekeeping in the Los Angeles area?

gypsylassie
 

Oops, I think I just sent an empty message.  Alana, once you decide the what and where, I would get APF on board for your horses before the trip.   Even if the shipper won't continue giving it, I think it would help.  
Laura K Chappie & Beau over the bridge
2011 N IL


Re: IR/Cushingoid horsekeeping in the Los Angeles area?

celestinefarm
 

Alanna,
I would seriously reconsider moving a 28 and 29 year old horse across the country into a completely different environment ( desert without seasonal changes) that includes extreme heat. You are looking at six to eight days of hauling them just to get them there, and possibly longer if there is a several day layover.  I shipped a 17 year old mare from Northern California to Michigan several years ago, with a good shipper who kept in contact with me, and when she arrived after ten days on the road( three of those on layover in Oklahoma City) , she was dehydrated and ended up having to be tubed the next day when she colicked. Shipper told me she refused to drink on the trailer and they had a hard time getting her to drink in Oklahoma. Your PPID horse will be without pergolide during the trip, as most shippers will not administer meds to horses.  You could fly them, but again, I have no idea if the airlines are willing to ship horses of their age. 
This is before you put them into a completely different environment.  
As was recommended by others, I would try to find them another home in Indiana where they live out their days in more familiar environment. You shouldn't give up personal opportunities for yourself, but I would not move horses that elderly.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Re: IR/Cushingoid horsekeeping in the Los Angeles area?

coffincomplex@...
 

And thanks to LJ as well. I think a backyard place is probably likely to be the best fit, as well, if I don't find a little property to rent.
--
Alanna
May 2018
South Bend, IN
Buster's case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Alanna%20and%20Buster  .


Re: IR/Cushingoid horsekeeping in the Los Angeles area?

coffincomplex@...
 

Thanks, Valeree. I'll send you a message. I'm comfortable with an hour commute to the barn, and I'm used to buying and testing my own hay and feed so that's not an issue.


--
Alanna
May 2018
South Bend, IN
Buster's case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Alanna%20and%20Buster  .


Re: seem Flax

Bonnie
 

Is the flax ground, Reta? I have always used whole flax, ground just before feeding, and it has always stayed fresh. I buy it at Bulk Barn or at a feed store.
--
Bonnie and Lad
North Ontario
Dec 2008
 

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