Date   

Re: Hives (again) and swollen sheath (again)

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 
Edited

I agree with trying Pentosan next. If that doesn't work either he may have complement mediated hives rather than histamine. Low dose stanozolol has worked for that in 3 horses I know of.  Stanozolol is the "steroid" Wendy is talking about here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/101200?p=,,,20,0,0,0::Created,,Wendy+%2B+hives,20,2,0,1027632 . It's an anabolic, not in the cortisol family.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Starting Case history - Tracie

Tracie W
 

Hi Sherry
Thanks for your review and thoughtful comments. I’m on the same impression you are regarding Fontane since I’ve had him since he was 2. 

Yes, he is definitely starting to put on some weight since making all his dietary changes ( about 8 lbs in a little over 3 weeks now since making dramatic but gradual changes), he’s perkier, more willing to move around and walking a little better. 

Because he does have rotation now on all four feet should i keep him in some type of turn out comfy boots and then remove them when he comes inside to make him more comfortable? If so, suggestions on what type and where to purchase.

Unfortunately, I’m not surprised about his rotations since I believe he’s had on going chronic laminitis issues for a while now. 

Thank you again for your reply
Have a nice day-
Tracie
--
Tracie Wang
Birdsboro, PA
Joined May 2020

Fontane's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tracie%20and%20Fontane
Fontane's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=247786


Re: Asking Again

gypsylassie
 

Kathy, it seems as if it may be a combination of maybe needing more pergolide, ulcers and confusion about not seeing you for so long.   I recently joined a lovely group of horsepeople who are focused on their horses' mental and physical needs, and have read about how some of the horses who are boarded and went thru lockdown are displaying changes in their personalities and mental states.   This is all so new and difficult and it's even harder when we add in Cushings and IR.   I hope everything works out for Donna.   I think sometimes mares feel things more deeply with their instinct to be watchful and keep their foals safe.  
Also, I do have a friend who had a mare on CTB who became quite excitable on it, just fwiw.  
Laura K Chappie & Beau over the bridge
2011 N IL


Re: Hives (again) and swollen sheath (again)

Bonnie
 

Hello Joy, I looked up records of dealing with hives with Lad in 2012/2013. Beginning summer 2012, nickel-sized NON ITCHING hives appeared each morning, becoming hand-sized flat plaques by evening. Oral antihistamine had no effect other than to make him hyper and ravenous. At this point he was dx PPID and put on 1 mg pergolide powder. The antihistamine was stopped after approx 10 days. Appetite and behavior returned to normal. The hives stopped in late September and I believe they were environmental.

In 2013 Lad had hives again in June, and was treated with spirulina. He was switched to compounded pergolide, 2 mg. Hives disappeared and never came back. The spirulina may have been helpful but likely switching to the more stable compounded pergolide plus the raised dose were responsible for the improvement. There has been no recurrence even though the same plants are present and the mosquitoes, blackflies, no see ums, horseflies etc. are here all summer. I have always used Farnam's repellent 'Wipe" on Lad without any skin trouble.

I hope this info is of some use to you, Good luck with Willie's difficulty.
--
Bonnie and Lad
North Ontario
Dec 2008
 


Re: Asking Again

 

Thinking about this again, Kathy, I am reminded of Logo before he was diagnosed with PPID at a relatively young age.  I could not leave for the weekend, without his becoming ‘colicky’.  His former owner described a similar situation.   The vet I was working with suggested I test him for PPID.  I was so relieved to learn he was positive (can you imagine!) because he also had huge issues with pastern dermatitis, which might benefit as well.  In fact, after I started him on pergolide, he never had another anxiety attack and the scratches became much more manageable.  So, the fact that she’s acting more stressed could be an indicator that more pergolide is needed.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Starting Case history - Tracie

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Tracie,

Thanks for getting your CH and photos up. 

Links for those who want to look:


So a couple of things - your hay looks ok so no need to soak it (hooray) but looking at the pictures Fontane looks on the thin side to me (which is unusual in a mini, we usually see them at the other end of the spectrum).  I wouldn't want to see a lot more weight on him, but is that just the pictures/clip lines or do you think he needs a bit of weight as well?  Has he gained/lost weight since you started him on the ECIR diet?  Normally for a 300lb. mini I'd say 12 pounds of hay & beet pulp a day was a lot, but if he needs to put on weight I'd keep him at that level until he's reached 'goal weight' and then back him down to 2% of his weight for maintenance.

As far as the trim - I see you said the vet thought he might have a keratoma, but I'm guessing that wasn't true?  The abscesses could be related to subclinical laminitis as his insulin and glucose levels have been pretty consistently elevated.  I'll leave specific comments on his x-rays and trim to the hoof experts, but just looking at the xrays he has rotation on all 4 feet and some pretty significant changes to the bone in all 4 feet as well. 

The good news is you have a farrier who's willing to come every 2 weeks to trim so hopefully with some help from us you'll get him more comfortable soon.




Re: My Best Horse ordering problems.

ferne fedeli
 

I placed an order this morning with no problem, but noticed they mention a security issue, so several people must have had a problem...
--

Ferne Fedeli  Magic & Jack   2007

No. California
Case History

 

 


Re: Hives (again) and swollen sheath (again)

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Joy,

Hives suck and the sheath swelling is concerning but as long as he's eating, pooping, and peeing he's probably going to live, although he is also going to give you grey hair in the process.  What's going on with the woman who was feeding him stuff - is there any chance that she's been feeding him things he shouldn't have? 

At this point I'd think that anything that was a reaction to the new fly sheet (assuming you removed it from the equation right away) should have been resolved between the Benadryl and the cold hosing so that makes me wonder if there's not something else at play here. If he's been on the same hay for 2 weeks and nothing else has changed as far as feed the only other things that would make sense are he rolled in something or was bitten by something or was fed something that's causing the hive reaction. 

Hope the vet gets back to you soon!




Re: Asking Again

Lorna Cane
 

I "think" so.  What identification is there on your test results? Should say at top of page.
It's always enviable to be able to use Cornell (although I don't know that Guelph's reputation is that shabby). But you might have a cardiac incident when vet mentions price.
The killer is the shipping from here.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out ecirhorse.org FAQ - https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


 


Re: Asking Again

Kathy Thomas
 

Thanks so much, Maria.  I had never considered this.
All I can say, is that she was well controlled and a joy to ride on the 3 mg. 
Suddenly, she is not the same horse, and I am not riding her until this gets resolved.
Today, I lunged her, and she ripped away from me 2x and would not be caught. 
She will not let me near her face, and trembles when I try to touch her nose or poll area.
 
Se is acting the way a friend’s horse did when this horse had a brain tumour.
I am hoping to get some answers when my vet comes on Tuesday.
Thank you so very much for your suggestion!

--
Kathy 2017 and Donna

 

Harrowsmith, Ontario

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathy%20and%20Donna


Re: Asking Again

Kathy Thomas
 

It went to Idexx.  Is that Guelph?

--
Kathy 2017 and Donna

 

Harrowsmith, Ontario

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathy%20and%20Donna


Re: Asking Again

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Kathy,

Did it go to Guelph last time?

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out ecirhorse.org FAQ - https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


 


Re: Hives (again) and swollen sheath (again)

Joy V
 

***Forgot to mention I cleaned his sheath about 3 weeks ago (or less).  Also, have not de-wormed in about 6 months.
--
Joy and Willie  
(aka FLS Boxcar Willie)

Nevada County, CA - 2019


Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: Asking Again

Kathy Thomas
 

Thank you, Martha.  For some reason, I did not get this post.
I will have her retested on Tuesday of this coming week, and ask my vet to plz send to Cornell.
Thank you!

--
Kathy 2017 and Donna

 

Harrowsmith, Ontario

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathy%20and%20Donna


Re: Working out Hay Amounts for Mini's Diet

lynnc66
 

Hi Nancy,

Okay, after separating the mini horses from the mini donkeys, here is an average for the hay consumed per day to date:
Mini horses:  5.1 lbs/horse/day
Mini donkeys: 5.2 lbs/donkey/day
This is the most that they have consumed in a day (24 hr period)

What are  your thoughts about how to move forward with weight loss, while giving them the proper nutrition?  Would something like giving the mini horses peas to add protein be appropriate?

Also, regarding re-testing the hay NIR for ESC and Starch, what would the minimum number of bales needed to be sampled (I have 8 bales left)?

Thank you Nancy,

Lynn Cox
Kern County, CA

May, 2007 

Bella Case History
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lynn%20and%20Bella

Meadow Grass Hay Analysis
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/MeadowGrass20200225_19255425a.pdf

Photos, Bella, Destiny, Zoe, Pip
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=247665  





Re: Asking Again

Kathy Thomas
 

Thank you, Laura fro your input and concern.
I cannot imagine Donna having any negative experiences at the boarding stable, as the owners are
and staff are very caring and kind.  On the  other hand, you never know.
 
I do feel that she was stressed, and felt abandoned, and likely developed ulcers.
I have been giving her Omeprazole for about 10 days.  She had no idea why I suddenly disappeared.
 
I am continuing to be concerned bc, she is skin sensitive and has not fully shed out her winter coat.
Also, there is a disconnect between us.    Hoping my vet has some answers on Tuesday.

--
Kathy 2017 and Donna

 

Harrowsmith, Ontario

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathy%20and%20Donna


Hives (again) and swollen sheath (again)

Joy V
 

I've posted 3 posts about this issue to-date; for far had one response.  I deleted the other two because ... crickets.  Things are looking much worse now, and I could use some help/direction please.

Tuesday (05/26) my horse broke out in hives on his neck, chest & shoulders.  This is everywhere a lining was in his (new never washed) fly sheet.  Normally I cut the lining out, but didn't on Tues.  I assumed the heat and the lining caused the hives.  I cold rinsed him & sponged with 50/50 vinegar/water.  Next day (Wed) hives looked better in the am, but not gone.  Cold rinsed/sponged him again (AM & PM).  I also ordered large bottle of generic Benedryl because our store was out of it (and zyrtec). 

Cold rinsed/sponged on Thurs.  Hives looked worse in the am, better in the PM - Benedryl arrived Thurs PM.  Dosed him with 20 25mg caplets (at the direction of our vet) melted and poured over his bucket of supplements.  Friday AM hives looked worse again, dosed him AM w/ generic Benedryl, cold rinse/sponge.  Hives looked better Friday eve - noticed new, localized swelling on his abdomen - looked like an insect bite, so dosed again w/ Benedryl, cold rinsed/sponged.

This morning his hives were worse again, but also, his sheath was extremely swollen.  Dosed w/ Benedryl.  Cold rinsed/sponged, also cold rinsed sheath for about 15 minutes, hand walked for about 20 - 30 minutes, and dosed with 1/2 dose of banimine that I have from the vet, and I did text the vet right away.  Just went back to the barn and his sheath is more swollen, so cold rinsed again, hand walked, and because I haven't heard back from the vet, called Loomis.  Vet is off today per Loomis and their on call vets are covering.  They said they will have a vet call me.

Have not heard back from Loomis vet yet.  What is the protocol at this point?  Pentosan?  I'm just really worried that he might not be able to urinate, the sheath is that swollen.  This afternoon, he also has swelling on his chest, right at the corner of his legs, where he's normally smooth.  He's eating normally, pooping normally, and moving well.  He is definitely a bit itchy, but not horribly so.  I did put a mix of zinc oxide & swat on his sheath because flies were landing and I wanted to protect it.  

I added photos to my album.  The back leg looks like it has hives in the pic of his sheath, but it doesn't, it's his hair.

I am just pretty worried about him.  He's always had terrible seasonal allergies.  I assumed it was because of the uncontrolled IR.  But he has been on tested hay now for over 2 weeks, he has been so doing well, but this is just such an out of control-seeming reaction allergy-wise.

Thanks for any input.  Sorry I have not updated my case file to add this event yet.

--
Joy and Willie  
(aka FLS Boxcar Willie)

Nevada County, CA - 2019


Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: Metformin - must dose be ingested all at once?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

If it's within 2 hours or so you should be OK. If longer, syringe it.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Metformin - must dose be ingested all at once?

 

Predictably, these questions come up on weekends when it's hard to reach the vet. The drug circular is useless.

Cayuse's metformin is going down when mixed with with a small amount of feed, but it is not gobbled all at once. Is it critical that the dose be ingested all at one time twice a day? I will switch to syringing (what joy) if it must administered within a short time frame.

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos 


Re: My Best Horse ordering problems.

cathyjomitchell
 

Thank you Laura, I'm sure it's a problem with my security software and theirs. But I still can't get through. So I will order by phone.
--
Cathy and Natalie (Morgan)
joined 2008

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