Date   

Re: Weight Gain Woes

lindsaykrauland@...
 

Thanks, Dr. Kellon. 

I've asked my vet to please write for 2 mg/day and explained my reasoning. I also included photos of Audi's body condition. I haven't heard back yet, but hopefully he'll be willing to go with the recommendations here. He was pretty happy with the lab results since everything was in range.

For the diet tweaks- Would you like me to add the extra 4 lb of cubes to the current diet? So each meal would be: 4# balance cubes, 1# flax, 2.5# safe starch, and minerals/aminos/beet juice, etc? Is 7.5+ lb per meal too much for one sitting? 
 
--
Lindsay in TX 2020

Audi Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lindsay%20and%20Audi

Audi Photo Album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248156 


Re: Parting pictures of Savannah

Lynn
 

Pat - There are no words to adequately express how sorry I am that this happened. We are hurting with you. Your tribute is so beautiful. She was very lucky to have you as a Mom. You did an amazing job!! Take care of yourself!
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Re: Hay analysis

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Tori,

I don't know anything about using a Kindle with files but perhaps somebody else on the list can help.  The NDF value on this hay is high for sure but not quite (although close) to what's considered inedible as far as the average horse goes.  Hopefully Dr. Kellon or somebody else can comment on that plus the protein question.  If the horses didn't want to eat it I would think it'd be more likely due to the NDF value than the ESC/starch value.




Re: Hay analysis

Toni Johnson
 

I'm concerned that the low sugar combined with high NDF might make an unpalatable feed. I'm supposed to go look at the hay this week, and probably grab samples for a wet chemistry if it doesn't seem too over mature. It's supposedly second cutting. I had just never done sugars without ESC before and the NDF is high.
I cannot get my case file to load, all I have is my Kindle for big files.
Thanks,

--
Toni in Northern Colorado
"The Horses Hand Maiden"
March 2019


Laminox/Phytoquench/Jiagloun/Alcar questions

 

Hello 
I am wondering if Laminox / Phytoquench and/or Jiagloun is beneficial for horses with Navicular ?? I’ve got an IR warmblood that has Navicular and heaves ...I’m looking to find him a  good supplement for pain relief as well as help his allergies/heaves ...his feet are well balanced /trimmed and shod...he’s on no nsaids but is currently taking Zyrtec , Ventipulmin , Smart Breathe Ultra , and Aleira was just added due to a recent heaves flare up.
I have had him on Naviculasaver and Omega Alphas Antiflamm in the past with minimal improvement.

Also I have my mare on Laminox from a recent bout of acute laminitis brought on by steroids for her allergies...can I give her Phytoquench in addition to the Laminox ? Do people do that ??

Also..Another IR warmblood mare of mine has cervical arthritis ...I’m looking for a good joint supplement /pain reliever and hoof support(she’s got flat feet and in bar shoes) for her as well ..she’s currently getting Equinyl Combo w/ Ha. This mare also occasionally coughs when first being warmed up at the trot.

Thanks in advance.


--
Michele Goldberg
Bernville, Pa 
joined 5/19/2016


Re: Weight Gain Woes

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

We're very early in the seasonal rise. It won't peak until late September. His ACTH is too high IMO. I would take him up to 2 mg.

He's probably only mildly IR from the PPID but if his PPID gets out of control that will change.

Try doubling his cubes to 4 lbs twice a day, feed moist with the flax divided between meals and add 1 scoop of Tri-Amino to each meal https://uckele.com/tri-amino-2lb.html . If you do that, he should be able to easily meet protein requirements from the hay. Also make sure he's getting at least 3 oz of salt a  day. Divide that up between meals. Also order beet juice concentrate https://www.clnf.org/beet-juice-concentrate?gclid=CjwKCAjw97P5BRBQEiwAGflV6cGDBiA-g3lP9hQi4uikZEendTHwmVPpejeK2-ZM4Gc2-Hid9ROlPBoCHKgQAvD_BwE , two bottles, and give him 2 oz/day until gone.  That will help correct any dehydration.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Parting pictures of Savannah

ferne fedeli
 

So sorry for your loss, Pat.  She was such a beauty.  The only thing that will help you is time.  At least that is what I've found when I lost my Arab, Velvet...
--

Ferne Fedeli  Magic & Jack   2007

No. California
Case History

 

 


Re: Parting pictures of Savannah

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I'm very sorry, Pat.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: WAS: Cornell vs. BET lab results for Insulin NOW: Leptin

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Just for the record, I concur with Nancy's post.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


WAS: Cornell vs. BET lab results for Insulin NOW: Leptin

Nancy C
 

I've had a few private messages about the change in routinely recommending leptin testing we discussed yesterday.

We have changed the EMS calculator to remove leptin and are in the process of updating the DDT+E - diagnosis page to reflect this change.

Here is what the new diagnosis recommendations will say:

Blood tests for EMS — insulin, glucose, leptin, and adiponectin

A hallmark of EMS is high levels of insulin - hyperinsulinemia - as a result of insulin resistance. This is caused by  the failure of insulin sensitive cells to respond to “normal” levels of insulin.

There are many controversies over how best to test for EMS in equines. There is a dynamic interaction between glucose and insulin that changes over the course of the day. Insulin levels change when the horse eats, sleeps, or exercises. A normal level will depend on conditions of the test. A low-sugar and starch diet can influence insulin results.

The fat-derived hormone leptin is also usually abnormally elevated in insulin resistance but because there are many other things which can lower or increase leptin, ECIR is not recommending routine testing for this hormone.

Most university and commercial labs offer serum insulin and glucose tests.
Adiponectin is used in the UK and the EU.  Adiponectin helps regulate glucose and fat burning, and maintain insulin sensitivity. Low levels are associated with EMS. It has come to be preferred over leptin because it is not influenced by things like weight or exercise, and also because it was the only factor other than insulin levels that predicted laminitis risk

The EMS Calculator will calculate the G/I ratio, RISQI and MIRG, as it has before.  Here is the link  https://www.ecirhorse.org/EMS-calculator.php

- -
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 12-15, Harrisburg, PA


Re: Parting pictures of Savannah

Bobbie Day
 

Oh Pat
I am devastated for you, I was hoping she would recover. What a beautiful tribute to her. Such a beautiful girl, I’m just so sad, you tried your very best we all know that. Every time someone from the group has to say goodbye to their beloved equine we all feel the pain.
I’m so sorry, I just know she’s running free eating away and pain free.
RIP Savannah 😢


--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


Re: Parting pictures of Savannah

snowman0157@...
 

Pat:   I really don't know your story with Savannah, but I  can just sense the deep Love you have for her.  
I know Savannah can sense it also and I deeply hope you can be at peace by knowing that Savannah understands you did everything you could to
to help her .  Savannah knows you kept all your promises.  God Bless You. 
--
Joe S. in TX 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joe%20and%20Shiloh


Re: Was Red has gone sore again NOW: Hand Warmers in Socks

Sherry Morse
 

Bearing in mind that hoofboots are supposed to fit snugly against the foot if there's enough space to fit in a hand warmer the boots may not stay on.  I'd also be concerned about the heating up of one particular spot vs. spreading heat out over an entire area.  Just my 2 cents, nothing scientific involved :-)




Re: Was Red has gone sore again NOW: Hand Warmers in Socks

Frances C.
 

My gut feeling is that this is a bad idea - I dont trust the chemical makeup and fear that the package could break
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Hay analysis

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Toni,

Without knowing more about what the issues are with the horse/pony this is being fed to it's hard to comment and seeing copies of the actual hay test it's going to be hard to comment.  As far as calculations:

NSC = WSC + starch
WSC = simple sugars + fructans and their intermediates
 
So while not ideal, if you look at the NSC and it's under 10% it fits our definition of low sugar/starch hay.


_._,_._,


Re: Parting pictures of Savannah

Sherry Morse
 

We'll miss you Pat but we won't forget you or Savannah.



Re: New Lab Results for Audi

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Lindsay,

This is such a tough time of year to try to make a call on increasing a dosage of pergolide but 1.5 seems reasonable and then you can evaluate if you think his symptoms are getting better or not over the next few weeks.  If he's not showing signs of increasing weight gain, less drinking/peeing (given the heat conditions of course) then you may want to bump him up again.




Hay analysis

Toni Johnson
 

Good morning group,
Can someone help me with hay test results?
Hay #1- protein. 12
Wsc 6.1
Starch 2.5
Nsc 8.5
Ndf 62.7

Hay #2
Protein 13.7
Wsc 4.7
Starch 2.8
Nsc 7.5
Ndf 62.7
Both are orchard, brome blend second cutting, soft to the hand, green, not overly fertilized but nitrates not tested and proteins are a bit high?
Without ESC I'm unsure how to calculate numbers for my IR horses.
I tried just subtracting starch from NSC but that does not seem correct? 
Can someone please help?
Thanks bunches.
--
Toni in Northern Colorado
"The Horses Hand Maiden"
March 2019


Re: Parting pictures of Savannah

Debra Trujillo
 

Savannah was so beautiful Pat.  She wil live on in your heart.  Prayers for your loss.
--
Debbie and Precious
June 2017, Parker CO
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Precious  .
Precious' Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6846  .



Re: New Lab Results for Audi

lindsaykrauland@...
 

Thanks, that does help to clarify it a bit!  I’ll need to wrestle with the pony study a bit more.  Maybe it’ll look less like Greek after a few more read throughs! HA

I have his leptin results now:  3.18 ng/ml.  Does this change or clarify anything?  I see that ECIR is moving away from leptin testing now.  So in the future I should not bother requesting a leptin test?

I’m waiting to hear back from my vet regarding increasing Audi’s pergolide dose.  Is 1.5 mg of compounded pergolide a good new dose to try? 

--
Lindsay in TX 2020

Audi Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lindsay%20and%20Audi

Audi Photo Album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248156 

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