Date   

Re: Insulin Bloodwork...increasing

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

How much exercise?

I don't see a problem with increasing the pergolide especially given the time of year and topline change but would also recheck that insulin at IDEXX .
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: photos

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Linda,

You need to join the Case History sub-group and the Hoof sub-groups to see any of the photos:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory

https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof

Scroll to the bottom of the page(s) then click on the Join button.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Ulcers + Heaves

millionairess1989
 

Thanks Dr. Kellon.

He's already feeling better, of course before I got home with the liquid antacid and aloe vera juice. I'll continue with those and maybe start him on Uckele Gut to help things along.
--
Jennifer in Middle TN  2010
 Mill 31 yrs Arabian-PPID, IR & Pacemaker Dependent
Jack 21 yrs TN Walker- IR & RAO

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Millionairess

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=831

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Jack-TN%20Walker


Re: Ulcers + Heaves

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Jennifer,

There's no contraindication for using any of those ingredients if he has ulcers. The best indirect way to diagnose likely ulcers is to get 3 or 4 days worth of omeprazole from your vet and see what happens with the signs you are seeing. If they obviously improve, it's probably ulcers and you can use that improvement as a yardstick to evaluate other treatments.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Cornell vs. BET lab results for Insulin

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

When pergolide changes are made during the seasonal rise, they may not take effect until well after it is over. At other times of the year, 3 to 4 weeks is enough to see the effects. ACTH is actually the most minimal hormonal change occurring in PPID. The metabolic effects of the other hormones circulating in higher amounts has not been well tested, but all are known to affect insulin sensitivity. This is probably why some horses have disconnect between ACTH levels and their clinical signs, and why some need ACTH in the low twenties or teens to be well controlled. ACTH is only a marker of a much bigger picture.

Cold weather should also be combatted by warm leg wraps and especially lined boots for the feet.

Your vet was reimbursed for the BET test and shipping.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Advice Please- our first laminitic episode

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

Hi Kelly,

You do the best you can with knowledge you have at the time, so no more feeling guilty. Let's just get things tightened up even more so Buddy gets back on track.

Here is the link to Buddy's photo album:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251736

It would be helpful if you would add this to your signature .

You can definitely use beet pulp as a safe carrier for supplements - there's no limit on time for that. Use the minimum needed to get him to eat his supplements as beet pulp is more calorie dense than hay. TC Lite isn't recommended to feed to an IR horse as the ESC+starch numbers are not guaranteed and have been found to be more than 10% when tested. Beet pulp needs to be rinsed, then soaked, then rinsed again before feeding.

We need to see all the results of any blood work that has been done as there are none in his Case History. Did you have the TRH Stim test redone after starting him on the Prascend (pergolide)? Have you had insulin and glucose tested? Have you had any blood work run this year? PPID is a progressive disease so it may be that his dose of pergolide is not controlling his ACTH well enough now that the seasonal rise period is starting. Although early for normal horses, ones that are PPID tend to start their rise earlier, as well as going higher and lasting longer.

His diet needs to be mineral balanced to his hay analysis. If he should weigh 900lbs, he should be receiving no more than 2% of his ideal body weight daily in total food intake or 1.5% of his current weight, whichever amount is larger.. This includes hay, feed, pasture, beet pulp (dry weight). That means no more than 20lbs total is he weighs 1000lbs now and has  BCS of 9 (looking for that to be a 5). According to his CH, he gets 25lbs of hay, 1lb of TC Lite (or now BP)  He shouldn't be allowed any grazing at this point due to the laminitis and because he is a Morgan - a breed that is one of the poster children for IR. This isn't starvation - it's what his metabolism requires to maintain a healthy weight. At a BCS of 9, his "off switch" telling him that he is full is definitely NOT working, so you need to help him manage himself. Here's the link to the Diet Balancing folder in the Files. A list of people who can help you balance to your hay is in the Help with Hay Balancing pdf:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing

The Protandim has been discussed here before - it's a waste of your money. Please do a search in the archives for more info but here are a couple of past messages to get you started:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/239241

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/237520

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Cornell vs. BET lab results for Insulin

taskerudet
 

Hi Dr. Kellon,

Yes, I am planning to have him re-tested in October and in January and will of course update.  How many months does it take for an increased dose of pergolide to have any affect? He reached 5mg in October 2019 but was still increasing in insulin numbers into January.  As far as any correlation between ACTH and insulin, I don't see it on his tests between 07-2019 to now.  It seems as though his body treats these as two separate things.  As to the cold weather, we do blanket him at night and during the day if it is below 40 degrees.  He is in an enclosed barn at night.  Is there anything else to be done to protect from cold weather effects?

And I won't beleaguer the BET lab reimbursement issue any longer - consider it my very small contribution to the cause.

--
Ellen and Crackers
July 2011, Goldendale, WA
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Ellen%20and%20Crackers
Crackers' Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1645


Re: Parting pictures of Savannah

Helen Connor
 

Dear Pat,

What a beautiful girl Savannah was! I am so sorry for your loss. You are in my thoughts and prayers, as is she. I hope you won't vanish from ECIR. Savannah taught you a tremendous amount about living with these conditions. Hope you'll stay to share what you have learned. Hugs from afar.
--
Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID)
Scappoose, OR
Member since May 2017
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing
Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847


photos

lindagallipo
 

Hi how do you view members photos ?TY !


Re: Parting pictures of Savannah

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Thank you for sharing this and saying good bye, Pat, we will miss you and Savannah here.  I wish you only happy memories of her time with you.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Advice Please- our first laminitic episode

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Kelly,

 Can you substitute this link in your signature,for the one that is there? It will go directly to your case history for Buddy. 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20Buddy/Kelly%20and%20Apostrophe%20GCH/BuddyCaseHistory.pdf

Can you add the lab numbers,so that we can get a handle on how he's doing in that area?

Are you still feeding 25 pounds of hay a day?
We never want to think about starvation .There is a safe way to help take the weight off,without making the horse miserable, and more details would help addressing this.

Morgan's are IR poster ponies, so you are not allowed to feel guilty !
You're here, and that's great for Buddy.

Thanks!
--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Advice Please- our first laminitic episode

Kelly Gilmartin
 

Could the heat have caused this? We had seversal days of 100+ temps and Nothing changed in his management.....need advice- would you soak the hay whose analysis I have left in my case study even though esc+starch is under 10%? Also, how soon after the episode can I walk him? He is in a run out and we have noticed the last few days he is going outside to poop so he is more comfortable moving but if insulin is high how can I get that down without exercise and starvation? I am feeding only beet pulp without molasses, his supplements and hay.  How much beet pulp should I feed and for how long= can he stay on beet pulp instead of TCLite which is what he was getting before. He only got 1/2 lb of TCLite AM and PM which is a lower starch food.  I am feeling so guilty about it all. 
--
Kelly Gilmartin/Buddy
Western Massachusetts 
member since 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/topic/76050923


Re: Parting pictures of Savannah

valerie puryear
 


-- So sorry you lost your precious,beautiful girl. SHe was lucky to have a mom who loved her so and did everything possible. Run free beautiful Savannah!

Valerie and Matera
Aug 2018
Athens, GA, USA
Case History 
Photo Album
Ω


Re: Insulin Bloodwork...increasing

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Cheryl,

Here is the link to your case history, which should go directly to it (did for me ,anyway)....

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/filessearch?q=cheryl+and+jewel

I wonder if the Top Shelf ( not MadBarn, which it comes up as with Google)) Island Horse supplement could be an issue? I can't find the ingredients but
the starch, if correct, would be a huge red flag for me. It says 42.3%. Sugar is 5.5%.
I have seen it mentioned that there is some alfalfa in it also,but don't know that for sure.

https://madbarn.com/feeds/island-horse-14-supplement-pellet/


Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Ulcers + Heaves

millionairess1989
 

Jack, my 21 yr old IR TWH,  has backed off eating his beet pulp/supps and hay for the past few meals. I think he might be developing ulcers to go along with his heaves. 

I've used U-gard in the past and thought about trying Uckele's GUT.

Should any on the following supplements or medications not be used together to treat both conditions?

Spirulina
Chondroitin
J-herb
Flax
Zinc
Copper
Vitamin C
Vitamin E
Magnesium
Aloe vera
Liquid antacid
Tums
Albuterol

Any suggestions are appreciated.
--
Jennifer in Middle TN  2010
 Mill 31 yrs Arabian-PPID, IR & Pacemaker Dependent
Jack 21 yrs TN Walker- IR & RAO

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Millionairess

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=831

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Jack-TN%20Walker


Commercial Feed Analysis Library - Sat, 08/08/2020 #cal-notice

main@ECIR.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

Commercial Feed Analysis Library

When:
Saturday, 8 August 2020

Description:

Commercial Feed Analysis Library

Over the years individual ECIR Group members have sent various commercial feeds to be tested then generously shared the information. The Commercial Feed Analysis Library is a new term for an old file folder where any member can go and view unbiased analyses of commercial feeds. These analyses are a valuable part of the science that the ECIR uses to help our IR and PPID horses and are valuable tools used to prevent laminitis. 

If you have an analysis of a commercial feed please, instead of uploading it to your own folder, please consider sharing it with the entire group by by notifying us here.

View the Commercial Feed Analysis Library 

Thanks for your help and cooperation.

- ECIR Group Owners and Support Team


Insulin Bloodwork...increasing

Cheryl Oickle
 

i just received Jewels blood work back and I am so disappointed. I will update case history again with new results but need some direction please. Currently remains on one mg prascend. Current acth now 7.7 up from 5ish and her insulin via Cornell  has jumped from 83.15 to 122 normal is 10 to 40... Glucose normal
she is exercised to death and micromanaged on her diet. Her weight is stable but have noticed her top line is not as great as last year,no change in behavior, no lameness feet fabulous.

Vet wants to increase her pergolide to 2 mg per day. In Spite of the numeric as above, could this be effective in decreasing her insulin. I will have to transition to CP as this is breaking the bank
Any suggestions would be helpful
--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel%20Port%20Alberni%20BC%20Canada

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063


Re: Parting pictures of Savannah

Deborah Ide
 

So, so sorry to hear about Savannah.

--
Deborah
November 2012
Middle Tennessee
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deborah%20and%20Tara


Re: Parting pictures of Savannah

 

Pat, that's a lovely tribute to Savannah. I'm so sorry.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos 


Re: Was Red has gone sore again NOW: Hand Warmers in Socks

jonno17@...
 

Thank you everyone, I will steer clear of the hand warmers, I have used them once before for myself and they do become quite warm, my trimmer is coming today, he was due for his 4 week trim last week but she couldn't come because of the weather, I never even gave winter laminitis a thought to be honest as we don't have the extreme temperatures here that a lot of you folks do but we have had a lot of frosts this Winter and the day time temps have been around 4C last week including the snow which we rarely have here, maybe once every 10-15 years, I have the sheepskin boots on him and my trimmer is bringing some hoof boots with her today so he's more comfortable, his scoot boots aren't really giving him any relief.
--
Clarissa
November 2018-Red, Poppet
Tasmania, Australia 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Clarissa%20and%20Red_Poppet
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=79540