Date   

Re: requesting mineral supplement advice after posting hay analysis

Suzanna
 

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.
The hay is from our own fields, and it comes out different every time, due to weather and which field was cut. I can buy other hay, but it's the same situation where I don't know the content of the hay until I buy it then test it. I assume my procedure for the forseeable future is to get the hay baled, test it, then rework the diet.? 
Where do I learn about  ESC+ starch? Or do I need to wait until Sept when I will be taking the nutrition course? 

--
-Suzanna
June 2020 Berlin, Massachusetts
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sierra%20Case%20History 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249249&p=Created,,,20,2,0,0


Re: Cornell lab results, nutritional advice

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Kandice,

Based on those test results and as we're getting into the seasonal rise, with that result I would go up to 2mgs ASAP.  We usually recommend 3 - 4 days before an increase so you could start her on 1mg tomorrow and then 1.5mg by midweek and then 2mg by next weekend.  There's no guarantee that will be enough to get her down into a normal range at this time of year though so just keep that in mind.

As far as the alfalfa pellets I think you have your answer based on the fact that she started developing a crest and her udder swelled while she was on them so I would look at stopping those completely at this point.




Re: Advice Please- our first laminitic episode

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Kelly,

Thanks.Am taking a look. Trying to find units that Antech uses for ACTH.Wondering if it's same as Cornell.Anyone?

Kelly,this is a workable link to your case history.( thanks Sherry)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/filessearch?q=kelly+and+apostrophe

Should replace the one in your signature now. Go to Subscription,replace case history link with this one.Scroll down and hit Save.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Insulin Bloodwork...increasing

Cheryl Oickle
 

Thanks for the response on Jewels Insulin....I had her on Dr Reeds formula two but the iron and molasses were high. My vet recommended this Island Horse. I know the starch is high but it’s gm per kg. I am at wits end with this and have asked for a more in depth analysis from mad barn who does have the analysis posted, which I do not know why they do. Would 1 cup a day really drive insulin levels up?..Sorry  just a, looking for feedback
I have tried her on mad barn amino trace and she will NOT touch it in spite of numerous attempts and purchases  not to say it is ridiculously expensive, 65$ a month on top of the prascend , special hay, etc.
Cheryl

--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel%20Port%20Alberni%20BC%20Canada

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063


Re: Cornell lab results, nutritional advice

Kandee Rockett
 

Hi Dr. Kellon,

Bunny's blood work showed a dramatic increase in ACTH and an increase in insulin.

April (stopped Prascend 2 weeks prior to blood draw)
 Insulin-   16.20
Glucose-    91
Leptin- 12.74
ACTH-18.7

July 20
Insulin-   58.42
Glucose-   NONE on report
Leptin- 16.43
ACTH-  139
T4 2.00

I started her back on 0.5mg Prascend as soon as I got results on 8/5/20.
I plan on increasing to 1mg and more if needed.  
I would like to know how many days to give 0.5mg before increasing to 1 mg and how will I know if she needs 1.5 to 2 mg without doing another blood work?  

She was  tender after the last trim so the farrier took off and rasped less this time...she's not as tender (She is usually a little tender on gravel) 
She's stepping out at a good pace when walking on other surfaces.   She shows evidence of a ridge ring on hoof that could indicate something occurred (change in diet ?)  
She did aqua therapy at rehab facility in May for check ligament and had lost some weight.
The rehab owner thought she looked too thin and suggested I give her alfalfa pellets (2lbs Red River brand-- 1lb morn/1lb eve).  I only 
gave her 1lb in the evening because I was concerned about giving her alfalfa.  I had to switch to Standlee organic alfalfa bc couldn't find RR brand.  She gained a little weight and body condition looks good (she wasn't much under if at all).  I reduced to 1/2 lb and now she's only getting 1/4. 
The thing is Bunny acts like she feels fine...has energy, alert and stepping out when we ride. She seems happy.  She shed her coat.   Only indicators I saw were a little bit swollen udders and her neck seemed to be getting a little cresty again...that's when I reduced alfalfa pellets. 


She's on a dry lot and gets 4 flakes coastal (not tested-but same hay getting when did Apr blood work) and 1 flake timothy a day.  I started soaking 1 flake of coastal when I come to the barn in the evening. I don't have anyone to soak the rest and she can't wait that long to be fed (gets 2 at 6:30 a.m. and 1 at 3:00). Barn buddy gives 1 timothy late morning to noon time. 
She also gets TC Nat Timothy Cubes, salt, California Trace Plus, ground flax, J-Herb, Spirulina, Mag, Chaste Tree Berry, Nat Vit E, and Move Ease.

Thank you for any advice,  

Kandice and TWH Mare  Bunny 
NC Texas, joined 2/2019
I have not updated Case Hist
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandice%20and%20Bunny


Re: Parting pictures of Savannah

Donna Coughlin
 

Fly free, beautiful girl! You will see her dancing with the stars; she will be with you forever. I am so sorry for your loss.  She was so lucky to have you.
--
Donna Coughlin, Duke, Robin Goodfellow, Ariel Max and Obi over the Rainbow Bridge (5/17)

CT 2009

 

 


Re: How do we update our CH?

Nancy C
 
Edited

Hi Nancy

I am assuming you are using WORD.  Try this

How to Use Word to Update and Edit Your Case History

 
(Add rows, merge cells, etc)

Instructions are also on the bottom of your CH Form.

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 12-15, Harrisburg, PA


Re: Advice Please- our first laminitic episode

Kelly Gilmartin
 

Hi Lorna,
I updated all the lab values I have.  I welcome your advice. 
--
Kelly Gilmartin/Buddy
Western Massachusetts 
member since 2019
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20Buddy/Kelly%20and%20Apostrophe%20GCH/BuddyCaseHistory.pdf


Re: Advice Please- our first laminitic episode #incretins

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Depends on the amount of damage, whether the cause of the laminitis has been removed, how tight the trim is, whether it is on any NSAIDs or not, how the horse is feeling. If everything was really tight before the "assault", then damage may be minimal and recovery is going to be rapid.

Don't force any kind of exercise initially - just allow him to wander in a safe area at will. Once he is initiating movement regularly - and the trim, diet and are tight and cause of laminitis is removed - then you can start to add in casual walking. More formal exercise needs to wait until there is 1/3 to 1/2 a hoof capsule of tight, healthy growth present. That can take 3-5 months, depending on the amount of damage that needs to grow out.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Parting pictures of Savannah

Deb Walker
 

I haven't been checking in here as regularly as usual, so I am late in expressing my sincere sorrow at the loss of your beautiful girl. She really was magnificent. I recently bought a small book of Native American Proverbs which is sitting on my desk. The quote on the cover: "The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears." Your soul must be shining brightly.
--
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619


Advice Please- our first laminitic episode #incretins

Kelly Gilmartin
 

How soon after an episode can horse be hand walked? 
--
Kelly Gilmartin/Buddy
Western Massachusetts 
member since 2019
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20Buddy/Kelly%20and%20Apostrophe%20GCH/BuddyCaseHistory.pdf


How do we update our CH?

NANCY BOTTE
 

Hi - we would like to update Twisters CH, but need help.
Thanks!

--
Nancy B
NH
2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Twister 


Re: Insulin Bloodwork...increasing

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Cheryl,

It looks like you may have accidentally deleted your entire case history folder rather than just the old case history, so your latest case history isn't in a folder, it's just loose in the files.

Would you please create another folder, then upload the case history to that. If one of us creates the folder for you, you don't "own" it, so it severely limits what you can do with it.

Thanks.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Insulin Bloodwork...increasing

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

How much exercise?

I don't see a problem with increasing the pergolide especially given the time of year and topline change but would also recheck that insulin at IDEXX .
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: photos

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Linda,

You need to join the Case History sub-group and the Hoof sub-groups to see any of the photos:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory

https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof

Scroll to the bottom of the page(s) then click on the Join button.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Ulcers + Heaves

millionairess1989
 

Thanks Dr. Kellon.

He's already feeling better, of course before I got home with the liquid antacid and aloe vera juice. I'll continue with those and maybe start him on Uckele Gut to help things along.
--
Jennifer in Middle TN  2010
 Mill 31 yrs Arabian-PPID, IR & Pacemaker Dependent
Jack 21 yrs TN Walker- IR & RAO

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Millionairess

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=831

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Jack-TN%20Walker


Re: Ulcers + Heaves

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Jennifer,

There's no contraindication for using any of those ingredients if he has ulcers. The best indirect way to diagnose likely ulcers is to get 3 or 4 days worth of omeprazole from your vet and see what happens with the signs you are seeing. If they obviously improve, it's probably ulcers and you can use that improvement as a yardstick to evaluate other treatments.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Cornell vs. BET lab results for Insulin

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

When pergolide changes are made during the seasonal rise, they may not take effect until well after it is over. At other times of the year, 3 to 4 weeks is enough to see the effects. ACTH is actually the most minimal hormonal change occurring in PPID. The metabolic effects of the other hormones circulating in higher amounts has not been well tested, but all are known to affect insulin sensitivity. This is probably why some horses have disconnect between ACTH levels and their clinical signs, and why some need ACTH in the low twenties or teens to be well controlled. ACTH is only a marker of a much bigger picture.

Cold weather should also be combatted by warm leg wraps and especially lined boots for the feet.

Your vet was reimbursed for the BET test and shipping.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Advice Please- our first laminitic episode

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

Hi Kelly,

You do the best you can with knowledge you have at the time, so no more feeling guilty. Let's just get things tightened up even more so Buddy gets back on track.

Here is the link to Buddy's photo album:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251736

It would be helpful if you would add this to your signature .

You can definitely use beet pulp as a safe carrier for supplements - there's no limit on time for that. Use the minimum needed to get him to eat his supplements as beet pulp is more calorie dense than hay. TC Lite isn't recommended to feed to an IR horse as the ESC+starch numbers are not guaranteed and have been found to be more than 10% when tested. Beet pulp needs to be rinsed, then soaked, then rinsed again before feeding.

We need to see all the results of any blood work that has been done as there are none in his Case History. Did you have the TRH Stim test redone after starting him on the Prascend (pergolide)? Have you had insulin and glucose tested? Have you had any blood work run this year? PPID is a progressive disease so it may be that his dose of pergolide is not controlling his ACTH well enough now that the seasonal rise period is starting. Although early for normal horses, ones that are PPID tend to start their rise earlier, as well as going higher and lasting longer.

His diet needs to be mineral balanced to his hay analysis. If he should weigh 900lbs, he should be receiving no more than 2% of his ideal body weight daily in total food intake or 1.5% of his current weight, whichever amount is larger.. This includes hay, feed, pasture, beet pulp (dry weight). That means no more than 20lbs total is he weighs 1000lbs now and has  BCS of 9 (looking for that to be a 5). According to his CH, he gets 25lbs of hay, 1lb of TC Lite (or now BP)  He shouldn't be allowed any grazing at this point due to the laminitis and because he is a Morgan - a breed that is one of the poster children for IR. This isn't starvation - it's what his metabolism requires to maintain a healthy weight. At a BCS of 9, his "off switch" telling him that he is full is definitely NOT working, so you need to help him manage himself. Here's the link to the Diet Balancing folder in the Files. A list of people who can help you balance to your hay is in the Help with Hay Balancing pdf:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing

The Protandim has been discussed here before - it's a waste of your money. Please do a search in the archives for more info but here are a couple of past messages to get you started:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/239241

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/237520

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Cornell vs. BET lab results for Insulin

taskerudet
 

Hi Dr. Kellon,

Yes, I am planning to have him re-tested in October and in January and will of course update.  How many months does it take for an increased dose of pergolide to have any affect? He reached 5mg in October 2019 but was still increasing in insulin numbers into January.  As far as any correlation between ACTH and insulin, I don't see it on his tests between 07-2019 to now.  It seems as though his body treats these as two separate things.  As to the cold weather, we do blanket him at night and during the day if it is below 40 degrees.  He is in an enclosed barn at night.  Is there anything else to be done to protect from cold weather effects?

And I won't beleaguer the BET lab reimbursement issue any longer - consider it my very small contribution to the cause.

--
Ellen and Crackers
July 2011, Goldendale, WA
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Ellen%20and%20Crackers
Crackers' Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1645

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