Date   

Re: Winter coat already?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Yes, it's common with PPID but it may mean your pergolide dose is too low. Check ACTH.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Winter coat already?

Jennifer Murphy
 

I'm used to having to body clip my mini mule in the spring to help him get rid of his thick winter coat, but he normally doesn't start to grow his next winter coat until around late August.  When we were showing him at the fall fairs, we would have to do a quick body clip to make him slick and shiny.  This year he has grown a ridiculous amount of new coat, and even my farrier commented on how ridiculously thick it was for this time of the year.  Is this normal for a PPID equine?  I've never had to do a full body clip in the middle of summer before. 
--
Jennifer in NH
2020

CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea

Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Update on Flirt

Roger Benson
 

It is time for an update on Flirt. First I have down loaded some pictures, blood analysts and hay test results.  This is posted in my photo album.  I will post more hoof pictures after the next trim.
It has been about a month, and two trims by our new farrier.  During that time Flirt has received 4500 mg of metformin twice a day as well as 2500 mg of acetaminophen each morning and evening.  The farrier has made major changes in his trim and removed a lot of excess foot.  He returns on Thursday the 13th.
The results have been:
1.  A slightly lower insulin reading from 92 to 86.  I am not sure how significant this is.  I was hoping for a greater drop, but at least it is going down and my vet was pleased.  What do others think of this drop?  Do I continue with metformin?  Is it still safe?
2.  Flirt has not had any NSAIDS in over a month.  He seems much more comfortable, except for the left sole that had the deep hole in it from “gas pockets.”  Yet he is still moving much better than a month ago.  I think it is no longer infected.  The farrier thinks his hoofs have improved a lot and is very optimistic that they will continue to get better.
3-  I take Flirt for a short walk twice a day.  He seems to be moving well.  I can only hope it continues.
One concern that I have is can I continue to give Flirt acetaminophen safely?  I have read that it was relatively safe for 30 days, but not sure of its affects beyond that.  We are now at that point.  What do others think?  I do not believe I have yet removed the trigger for his pain. ( high insulin)

I had a second testing of my hay that was thought to be questionable.  Those results are in the photo album.  I need that hay to be good for our other two horses.  I can always find some other hay for Flirt, but have over 200 bales of this.  I need to make it more nutritious.  What is your interpretation of this tested hay?  Any suggestions?  May need a hay balancer.

The stated changes have all seemed to help Flirt.  It has been a struggle, but we are definitely moving in the right direction.  We will continue to work towards Flirts recovery.

I thank everyone in the group for their encouragement, advice, and support.  There are some “awesome “ members here.



Roger & Flirt
January 2018  Atwater, Minnesota
Flirts Case History
Flirt's Photos


Rule Change at FDA would raise compounded drug prices by 300% or more #legalityofpergolide

Barbara Rosensteel
 

I received this forwarded message from Wedgewood Pharmacy.     The Food and Drug Administration (USA) is proposing changes that would force compounded pharmacies to prepare animal medications with manufactured drugs rather than bulk ingredients from FDA-approved suppliers.   This would raise the price of the pergolide we use for our horses by 300% or more.  Please read below and click on the link near the end to send a message to your Representative and Senators.





                       
Wedgewood Pharmacy
 
My name is Marcy Bliss and that’s my family’s dog, Ginger. I am the President and CEO of Wedgewood Pharmacy. Like you, I am an animal lover. I need your help to protect our Marcy and Gingerpets. At Wedgewood Pharmacy we compound custom medications for animals, including our beloved family pets. Since mid-March, we have been focused on responding to your needs for compounded medications during the coronavirus pandemic. But we have not lost sight of threats to your access to these life-saving medications. I’m writing to alert you to proposed Guidelines that could have serious and damaging ramifications for pet owners and pets.
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is proposing changes that would force us to prepare animal medications with manufactured drugs, rather than bulk ingredients from FDA-registered suppliers. This would dramatically reduce your access to compounded medications, lower their quality, and increase the cost of medications compounded for animals by an average of 300% and up to 3,000% in some cases. A bi-partisan group of Members of the House of Representatives has written a letter asking FDA to withdraw this guidance. I am asking you to act now to encourage your member of the House to co-sign that letter and ask your Senators to request that FDA withdraw these proposed dangerous and unwarranted changes to animal compounding.
Act Now
Veterinarians told us in a recent survey, that if this guidance is adopted, “financial euthanasia” will spike, as pet owners are forced to let their sick pets go because they can’t afford the medicines they need. Shelter veterinarians also reported that others will surrender their pets to already over-crowded shelters and rescue organizations. This will certainly lead to an increase in euthanasia for tens of thousands of animals. People on fixed incomes could be especially affected by huge cost increases and forced to give up their companion animals when they need them most.
As we all know, family pets are precious for many reasons. They are important companions and stress reducers. They spread love and joy especially during these high-anxiety times in which we find ourselves. We make it easy to send a comment to your Representative and Senators. We have even supplied sample messages to get you started. If your Member is already a sponsor of the letter to FDA, you will be sending him or her a thank you.
Please, send your message today.

--
Barbara Rosensteel

Sept 2007, Cookeville TN



 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Compounded pergolide

 

Alicia,
When my 1/2 Arab was diagnosed with PPID I knew she already bought some medications from Wedgewood Pharmacy and was familiar with the business. So I explained that I would like a script for CP be sent to Wedgewood. She was comfortable with using a familiar pharmacy and agreed to CP. When I moved to another state I was able to get my new equine vet to follow suit as he also was familiar with using this pharmacy.
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Group Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: New Member posting hay analysis for diet advice

Suzanna
 

Thank you Lavinia and Martha for your input and advice. And for your patience, because it took me this long to find my message thread again! I bookmarked it this time. 
Yes, the farrier is doing more realigning with each monthly trim. There have been no new radiographs.  
I am working on photos, I have so little free time and I'm managing tendonitis in both arms so everything takes longer and I usually need help. So I am fitting things in when I can, with a priority on Sierra's comfort. I am happy to say that she is feeling better, much more active. Her coat looks healthier, it's no longer hirsute, and she's losing weight.  For now I will upload 2 photos that I took after the June 25 trim, meant for my records, and not in compliance with the ECIR instructions.  
I'll get some help to get appropriate photos ASAP. 

--
-Suzanna
June 2020 Berlin, Massachusetts
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sierra%20Case%20History 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249249&p=Created,,,20,2,0,0


Re: Advice Please- our first laminitic episode

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The test results will describe the range for a normal response but basically yes, little change with TRH. This doesn't allow for the normal seasonal rise, but in horses prone to laminitis even the usual seasonal rise may precipitate an episode.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Dr. Kellon: Should Ike be on Metformin?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Unless the hoof has been overly trimmed, the issue isn't the thickness of the sole tissue, it's how close the coffin bone is to the ground - how low it is sitting in the hoof capsule. You can tell the difference on a radiograph by looking at where the extensor process is sitting compared to the coronary band. It should be level or even higher. His is dropped. The solution for this, and it does work, is described here http://hoofrehab.com/DistalDescent.htm . On his 7/11 radiographs there was still too much toe. Need to back that up and leave the rest of the foot alone, except for ramping the heels. Once that is done, he will start to develop concavity which will give him the ground clearance he needs. Sole "depth" = sole tissue thickness + concavity.  By making the feet grow faster, Jiaogulan can speed up the process but only if you don't let the toe get too long again between trims. Measure the toe length and take photos to help you keep track. Learn how to back up the toe yourself.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Dr. Kellon: Should Ike be on Metformin?

Julie Thomas
 

Does the Jiaogulan help the soles (depth) grow faster, or just the rest of the hoof?  I'm fine with trimming more often if we're achieving the goal of increasing hoof depth.
He is also taking Rhodiola Rosea.  Will that help with sole depth?  thank you
--
- Julie Thomas
September 2018, Seabeck, WA
Case Histories: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Julie-Ike-Sparky  .
Ike Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=73042  .
Sparky Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=73044  .


Re: Advice Please- our first laminitic episode

 

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 07:16 AM, Eleanor Kellon, VMD wrote:
you certainly could use TRH stimulation to determine how much suppression your dose of pergolide is providing
Dr Kellon, what would we be looking for to see that effect? Pre- and Post- TRH values fairly close?
 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos 


Re: Insulin Bloodwork...increasing

Lorna Cane
 

Aha !
The nice woman at Top Shelf sent me some info. I am going to include this anyway,even though you are stopping it,Cheryl.

Protein Sources: Peas,Lysine HCl
Fibre Sources: Dehydrated alfalfa, wheat millrun
Minerals: Limestone,mono dicalcium phosphate, salt, copper sulphate, manganese oxide, manganese sulphate, zinc sulphate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulphate, calcium iodate, cobalt sulphate, selenium yeast, zinc methionine complex, copper lysine complex, cobalt glucoheptonate
Vitamins: A, D3, E H2 (biotin)
Energy Sources: Oil
Additives: Yeast culture
To be fed at 250 g ( ~1 1/3 cups) daily to 1000 pound horse.

Fibre sources are red flags,for sure. 
--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Dr. Kellon: Should Ike be on Metformin?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

You have made progress since December but it looks like the collateral grooves at the tip of the frog are still very shallow. Have you measured? You could put a ramp on the heels and be a little more aggressive with backing up the toe. Jiaogulan would make the hooves grow faster but you will have to trim more often.

Hoof Armor may make him less sensitive but it doesn't actually fix anything.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Dr. Kellon: Should Ike be on Metformin?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Julie,

Thanks for adding the pix.

Agree that Ike should remain in boots the majority of the time he isn't on a soft, yielding surface as the soles are quite thin. There is some sinking on the rads, so that is part of the the thin sole issue. On the fronts, the toes need to come back a bit more. Heels are somewhat underrun so the back half of the foot isn't providing the needed support. Medio-lateral balance appears OK, no obvious wall flaring. Frogs aren't as robust as they could be, which points to him not landing heel-first regularly. That will also contribute to the thinner soles.

On the hinds, the toes are too far out ahead of him and heels are seriously underrun. Again, he's not getting the support from the back half of the foot as it has been displaced. Frogs are much more robust than on the front feet.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Insulin Bloodwork...increasing

Cheryl Oickle
 

Sorry cant find the link for Island Horse...not to savvy with technology.  Given the feed back and articling from you all i will at least take her off this supplement immediately and reassess  her blood work and go back to Dr Reeds formula 2
which is obviously a better choice. My hay comes from Washington btw from a supplier that tests...esc 7 starch 0.2

--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel%20Port%20Alberni%20BC%20Canada

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063


Re: Insulin Bloodwork...increasing

Cheryl Oickle
 

I use a gps/tracking device and so dies my partner. We are in the accurate ball park on time and distance. 75 to 100 miles per month is normal from Marc to Oct for sure
--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel%20Port%20Alberni%20BC%20Canada

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063


Re: Insulin Bloodwork...increasing

Lorna Cane
 

Cheryl? Did you mean to include a link? Or something ?

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Dr. Kellon: Should Ike be on Metformin?

Julie Thomas
 

I have posted current pics of Ike's feet as of 8/8/2020 per Sherry's request.  Please let me know if they don't meet the needs & I'll try again.  His last trim was on 7/27/20; his next trim is scheduled for 8/24 - we are on a regularly scheduled 4-week trim cycle.  Any thoughts/guidance to help get Ike's feet feeling better so we can get him out of boots would be greatly appreciated.  Any trim comments?

FYI - at his appointment on 8/24 my farrier is planning to apply hoof armor.  Any thoughts on this approach?  
Thank you all!
--
- Julie Thomas
September 2018, Seabeck, WA
Case Histories: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Julie-Ike-Sparky  .
Ike Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=73042  .
Sparky Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=73044  .


Re: Insulin Bloodwork...increasing

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Cheryl,

Not Sherry, but I found a post which might interest you,from one of our past members(and a vet),Jaini,who lives in Smithers.
She was chatting with a member from Victoria about some of the possiblilities for her hay.

I can't make the link work to your CH right now,so don't know if you have a hay analysis there,but thought this might help sort through things.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/193130?p=,,,100,0,0,0::Created,,jaini+MadBarn+IR+supplement,100,2,0,1061460


--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: balancing hay and water

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Stabul 1 doesn't do any balancing. It's a carrier for your supplements and a calorie source.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Insulin Bloodwork...increasing

Cheryl Oickle
 

As requested re Island horse. Please critique... feed back helpful from all folks

--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel%20Port%20Alberni%20BC%20Canada

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063

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