Hi when reading hay analysis  results,from Dairy one, do you look at "as fed " or " dry matter " ? Ty
--
Linda Gallipo Vt. 2011

I'm not sure if the increased TC Safe Starch is a good idea but given that she is Compensated IR now, she might be able to handle it.  Ideally new insulin bloodwork after the diet change will tell you whether or not it is OK for her.  If you will be testing her ACTH when she's titrated up to her full dose for 3 weeks, you could also have insulin +/- glucose done too.

Usually we stop giving APF once they are on the prescribed dose of pergolide.  Often that is when "the bottle runs out", but some members keep a new bottle on hand in case it's needed again.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   

thank you for the reply. I will copy and paste to the barn owner.    
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LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 

I mean the high urine output isn't from drinking more. It's from needing to excrete all that glucose.  The loss of water from all the urination is what is making him drink more.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

I agree the glucose is too low to be accurate but it is far more sensitive than insulin and your insulin may well be correct. The low glucose is throwing off your ratios. Insulin should be below 10 but it's well outside of the red zone for laminitis. How is he doing?  Any change in crest/fat deposits?

 Low platelet counts don't mean anything since equine platelets commonly clump.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Hi Melissa,

Hang in there! You will soon get a welcome message that will get you oriented and started on getting the information we need to help you - a case history, photos, radiographs. It's more difficult with drafts because their weight contributes to the hoof issues you mentioned. Your metabolic panel may or may not have been truly normal since the reference ranges are not "normals". In any case, you need to repeat that ASAP. He may also need to drain abscess collections before he can get comfortable and the bute inhibits that.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Thanks for the reply. When you say “it’s the other way around “I’m not sure I understand what you mean. It is early in the morning but I still can’t seem to figure that out   ?? thanks
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LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 

Crazy like fox, Ellen !!

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Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php

She should not use AAKG because it indiscriminately increases nitric oxide and this is a method melanomas use to spread. The Jiaogulan on the other hand has shown many anti-malignancy properties but had not been specifically tested for safety with equine melanomas. If she continues to use it she should monitor the size and number of the masses carefully.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Not a good idea! The Invokana works by increasing glucose excretion in the urine. This also greatly increases urine volume and can lead to dehydration if the horse is not compensating by drinking more. Restricting water in this situation lead to risk of colic and kidney compromise. it's not his increased thirst that is causing higher urination; it's the other way around. There are horses that simply drink too much for no physical reason (psychogenic polydipsia) but that's not the case here.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

--
Ellen
Pal & Savvy
N. Alabama
Aug 2013
Case History 

Hi Barb,

You say that insulin is within range now. But 78.9 is the number in her case history. I'm wondering if you were thinking of ACTH since that's the number for it,too?

When you say within range,do you mean lab range? Or below the 10 that we look for with our IR horses?

I'm wondering,too,if getting the ACTH down  could be helping lower the insulin.

In any case,you'd like to see the ACTH lower,so it's good you are going to up the dose.
I've never bothered with flavoured capsules ,but lots of people do.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php

Hi Helen,

I'll refer you to this clarification from Jaini, our previous veterinary advisor:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/30016175

I have a horse with localized squamous cell carcinoma.  With regular cryotherapy we have got it under contro and minimized the return of lesions, so I did try AAKG when we had the cancer under good control to see if AAKG helped with pain for him (I saw no difference so I discontinued it).  I do keep him on jiaogulan.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   

you are correct. dont use the senior. low carb complete and stage one are on the recommended feeds list. go to the files section. There is a whole long list of acceptable feeds.
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Susan Morgan
June 30, 2018
Ione, California
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20and%20Knight

Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71655

After an episode of laminitis in early May,  Lily's dose of Prascend was raised from 1 mg to 1 1/2 mg for several weeks, then to 2 mg.  A recent blood test after 4 weeks on the 2 mg dose showed not much change in her ACTH (68 in May,  77.6 in July, 78.9 in August).  I suppose this may be due to the seasonal rise. I've been advised here to bring her up to 3 mg/day, which I'm planning to do with a compounded formulation.  I'm trying to choose between 3.5 or 4.0 mg flavored capsules.    But I can't help wondering if there are horses that don't respond to pergolide.  It would be nice  to see that it did have some effect on her as I contemplate spending hundreds of dollars as well as adding to the difficulty of caring for her.
  The good news is that her insulin has dropped down in range since a high reading in May, I think because of regime of restricted grazing in a mostly closed muzzle and more conscientious exercise. 
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Barbara Vincent
Malvern,  PA
2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Barbara%20and%20Lily

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248031

Kelly, I do the same as Deb Walker.  I buy a 50 pound bag of flax seeds from a local feed store for around $25 and grind it with a coffee grinder I got on Amazon for $25.  I only do about 1 week's worth at a time & I keep the ground flax in the fridge in a plastic container w/ a lid.  The seeds are in my closet in a metal trash can (the garage is too hot here right now - in winter I'll keep them in the garage).  I hope that helps you.


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)  

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526

Hi Kelly

Here is a thread discussing options. What ever you decide, you need to test post-filtration to make sure it is working.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/68553884#248319

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 12-15, Harrisburg, PA

e
My horse had a car of what they think was h, was in the clinic for 6 days. Was uncomfortable the last two, the vet thought it was from his ringbone and being stuck in a stall. Got him home (7/3/2020) and I knew it was laminitis. I iced 3x day for 2 ours each,, heavily bedded stall, not grain, rationed grass hay, bute 2xday. Vet came out and stayed 7/7/2020. He was crippled lame. Coffin bone angled down, but parallel with hoof. Films were almost identical with films taken 10/2017 (taken for suspected ring bone). He has very thin soles. Always been bare, never lame. Bought him cloud boots and that helped his comfort level significantly. He began to show improvement on 7/17/2030. Then 7/31/2020 got worse again. Slowly improved, walking better, but never back to where he was from 7/18-7/31. He’s been in the boots 24/7 this whole time. He crippled without them. 8/7 noticed he soles shedding a lot. 8/10 farrier came, trimmed, backed his toe off a lot. Crippled again. Slightly better the past 2 days. I don’t know what to do. He’s a 16h Percheron. Heavy. I’ve done a full metabolic panel on him about a year ago, no issues at all. I don’t know what to do. Vet is coming for X-rays again Friday.  I can’t continue to see him in pain like this. I desperately need advice/help/guidance. 
Melissa

Thanks, Lavinia. I will speak with the vet today. He texted the results last night, so I did not get any follow ups to my questions. Frustrating of it was not processed quick enough. Time and money are not in abundance. 
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Mara
NJ
2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mara%20and%20Enzo/?ord=dirname&d=asc