Date   

Re: Casteberry

celestinefarm
 

Kirsten, Tipperary"s ideal weight would be around #1050, which would equate to appx.16 lbs of hay. He currently gets daily 15 lbs , plus one pound of hay cubes, and one pound of Equal balance chopped hay per day.  I can't feed him hay in a hay net as it triggers his COPD. So I feed him shaken out flakes of steamed hay three times a day. I discontinue feeding him beet pulp in the summer as it just adds pounds. I can't reduce his hay any further. Reducing calories is one part of this, exercise is another. Just like with humans, Calories in , energy out.  All that changes however with health problems, age,  As an older horse, I have to be cognizant that he doesn't have great teeth, he doesn't absorb nutrients as well, and he needs a consistently filled gut for it to work properly. Colic in older horses is a big concern for me, I've lost a couple of horses to severe colic and I do not chance it . His hay is very moderate in sugar and starch. He's currently on 8 mgs. of pergolide as he does have out of range ACTH and I have increased him 1 mg in the last few weeks. I"m already seeing improvement in the stubborn fat pads he was carrying and in his crest. He doesn't get much exercise, I haven't ridden him in years and he is no longer breeding. So lack of exercise is one of the issues.
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


TRH Stim Results

Kelly Gilmartin <Gilmartinkelly@...>
 

Our stim results came in today and it looks like we are in good shape there: Pre: 20.0 Post: 63.0 (this is after increasing to 2.5 mg a week or two before the test). Our insulin results are still pending but he was very high upon our last value (100). 

We are weighing hay (20lbs per day since 8/10 and have removed all turnout/grazing). I am awaiting hay analysis results but in the meantime Buddy developed Free Fecal Water when ingesting the new hay although mixed with old hay and soaked and steamed). So, we have removed the new hay (and I am frustrated because I just wasted my money on hay testing this batch).  I have only two horses in my care and its too risky to buy large lots of hay with picky eaters although I agree mineral balancing is ideal.  Should I just use Vermont Blend or some other balancer when customized hay testing and balancing isnt feasible? What do others do? Thankful for the advice of KG and Dr K but this is daunting to someone who cant buy large amounts of hay and cant financially afford to test each batch each time it changes.  

Also, would you add Thyro-L or metformin to his regimen? I feel confident our Pergolide dose is ok now but the insulin is still concerning. We arent moving yet as my Soft Ride boots are on the way and the farrier is trying to get out to trim. TIA
--
Kelly Gilmartin/Buddy
Western Massachusetts 
member since 2019
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20Apostrophe%20GCH

Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photosearch?q=Apostrophe


Re: Casteberry

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

I have a question for Lori and Dawn.  If their breeding is to be very thrifty keepers then by definition they are able to maintain a higher BCS while being worked.  19-21 lbs of hay seems like a lot to me if they are overweight.  Why not feed 1.5% of current body weight to see if you can't get them down to a 5 where some ribs are visible?  If their BSC is a 6, then aren't they still getting more calories than they need?  Just curious why reducing their hay is not an option, thanks!

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Feed Analysis

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

I meant to add that the protein is a little low, but as you have your hay balanced this is something your balancer can address, along with any other deficiencies.  The only real problem I can see is the high iron.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Feed Analysis

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

The toxic limit for iron in horse hay is 500 ppm, and ideally it would be 100 or less.  Likely iron this high is from surface dirt on the hay.  In looking through the messages I saw there are a couple things you can do.  First, make sure your sampling probe and container are clean.  Second, look through some bales to see if there are any dirt clumps.  If there are, maybe your probe went through one.  If not try vigorously shaking off the hay and see what falls out, and/or rinse and dry a representative sample and send that for iron analysis.  Hopefully vigorous shaking, +/- rinsing will remove enough iron to make this hay safe to feed.  Either way, whatever you do to lower the iron for a follow-up hay test should be done every time you feed.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Uckele treats GREAT BUY at Chewy 😊

iluvzhorses <iluvzhorses@...>
 

I only saw the cherry vanilla 4 lb. bag for 5.99 and the 12oz. bags (peppermint and apple-banana) are 4.70.  Either it was a pricing error and they fixed it or they are out!
--
Lisa And Louie
Eastern NC
2012


Re: is ESC affected by hay curing?

 

Hi Kirsten,

I was advised to let my hay cure for 6 weeks before testing from my mineral balancer. We bale large round bales and at 15% tested in the field we haven't had mold problems.

--
Nancy and Akira
3/20/2018  Burkesville KY

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Akira


Hydroxyzine while on Metformin?

Mara
 

Is it okay to put my horse back on hydroxyzine as he is on Metformin?

It is the only thing that helps to control his itchy skin during the summer. Over the years I have tried addressing it through diet (increased flax, spirulina, chondroitin, etc.) and fly gear. 

Any insight appreciated. 
--
Mara
NJ
2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mara%20and%20Enzo/?ord=dirname&d=asc


Feed Analysis

MJ
 

Hello, please find in my history case the hay analysis #2 (august 2020). Can someone review and provide comments and recommandations. I notice that the iron seems high. Is this a concern?. Thank You so much for the help.
--
MarieJosee
July 2020
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/MarieJosee%20and%20Cashmere  


Re: is ESC affected by hay curing?

Jennifer Murphy
 

I have a similar situation, and now I'm curious as to what that answer might be considering ESC.

My hay supplier cut, dried, and baled one field just for me.  He cut early in the morning so the sugar would be low.  He delivered 100 bales and I had that tested using the 601 test.  The ESC came back at 8.3, the starch at .6 - sampled on 6/23, and I think the hay had been baled for a week or two.  He brought a second load and just for interests sake, I tested that load.  The ESC came back at 6.3, the starch at .7 - sampled on 7/6 using the 601 test.  The third and final load was delivered and after reading on this site that the wet chemistry test was recommended, I sent in yet another sample for the 603 test.  The ESC came back at 9.4 and the starch at .5 and that was sampled on 7/10.  I think I'll take one more sample and just have the ESC tested to see if there was any change.  You would expect to get fairly similar numbers throughout the 400 bales all from the same field.

The moisture contend on the three loads ranged from 7 to 9%, but it's been so humid that a lot of the bales just smell off.  I tossed one bale into the woods yesterday that had no visible mold, no dusty spores released when opened, but it just didn't smell right to me. 

--
Jennifer in NH
2020

CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea

Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Re: Easy Boot Cloud Fitting advice

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Re: is ESC affected by hay curing?

gypsylassie
 

Yes it will be interesting to see the moisture and ESC.  I've never tried a follow up test like that.     If it smells really good, I'll bet it cures nicely and won't mold.  At least its starch is low, so if the ESC doesn't go down much you can soak it if you want, or just feed it to your non-IR horse.  
Laura K Chappie & Beau over the bridge
2011 N IL


Re: Easy Boot Cloud Fitting advice

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Thanks Maxine. The 1s are the right size for sure after letting them settle for.the day. Coincidentally, I had purchased the easy boot RX to try just in case the cloud was too much andsl he actually likes that boot much better. So I think like some others have mentioned, maybe the cloud pad was too much.
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Bella's Insulin has Increased

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Lynn,

Sorry, I didn't see that the 2nd Cornell analysis was a duplicate of the BET analysis!  Doing the extra tests gives more information, but if you are worried about Bella's insulin being in the red alert zone, then just doing everything to lower it all at once and retesting once is fine.

For soaking hay in water that may have high iron, that's a question for Dr Kellon or a hay balancer.  However, in my personal experience I have noticed my horse drinks way less water when I soak his hay, so maybe their water consumption overall is fairly close.  I also let it drain for at least 15 min, after soaking and rinsing it until the water rubs clear.  Soaking for extended periods can cause iron to absorb into hay from water, but the 1 hr we recommend does not cause iron to increase in the hay....not sure how true that is for high iron water though, which is why I hope someone else will chime in.

The dry pasture grass is still alive.  I guess I really just don't trust pasture analyses because they can be so variable...so with severely IR horses I would never take the chance.  That's just my opinion though.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Uckele treats GREAT BUY at Chewy 😊

Bobbie Day
 

Gail
They’re not very big, just little round pieces that can be easily broken. My little mare loves all the flavors. They’re soft enough to break in two.
--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


Re: Uckele treats GREAT BUY at Chewy 😊

 

How big are these treats?  I am looking for something really small if I can find it.  I considered buying Charlie Bear dog treats which look like miniature oyster crackers.  About dime size.

--
Gail Russell 8/30/2008

 

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Gail%20and%20Brother%20-%20Odin%20-%20Decaffe%20%20-Gunthar .


Re: is ESC affected by hay curing?

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Yes it was wet chem.  It's beautiful smelling hay and it is stacked looser than normal so hopefully it will be fine.  It will be interesting to see the moisture level in a month too.  Thanks Laura.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Easy Boot Cloud Fitting advice

Maxine McArthur
 

Hi Nancy
Sorry I came late to this thread. I found the Clouds were hard to get on the first week or so. Had to use a rubber mallet to tap them on. It was a bit easier with Curash powder liberally applied. I couldn't get the straps closed all the way across.
However, after a week or so of wear, and regular washing, they softened up, and the pad started to mold to my horse's feet, and eventually they slid on like comfy slippers and the straps did up all the way. After several months of use (mostly 12 hours at night), the pads needed replacing and the boots were a little harder to get on, but not that much. The velcro did lose it's stickiness after 3-4 months and I wrapped duct tape around the straps every night. I was impressed with the boots' longevity. The only time my horse lost one in turnout was before I realised the velcro had died and hadn't used the duct tape. 
I'd give it a week or so for the boots to settle in--in the meantime, the rubber mallet is useful. Make sure the hoof is clean and dry and powdered, and that you use the 'farrier stance' to hold the foot between your knees so you can use both hands to rock the boot on. 

--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Re: Bella's Insulin has Increased

lynnc66
 

Hi Kirsten,
 
Thanks very much for your response, the information is very helpful.  Here are a few comments in response to your input, and also a few questions, please.
 
Getting the Insulin and ACTH retested makes sense, and I think I will do it before starting any Metformin.  And then possibly retesting after starting the Metformin (maybe a month after?)
 
To clarify, the Insulin was done at Cornell both in Feb and also in July.  The same July sample was also sent to BET, per Dr. K's research request.  In other words, Bella's levels from Cornell for Insulin were: 117.97 (Feb) and >200 (July).  And from BET 176.59 (July).
 
Bella is currently on a dry lot.  I had the dry grass in the pasture tested because I was curious to see the analysis, and possibly considering putting the donkeys on it after the neighbor's horses had grazed it down.  
 
When I collected the samples from the pasture, the grass had been dry for a couple months in the high desert here.  And I collected samples from 24 different locations.  For my learning, could you please explain what you mean by "I would caution you that your dry grass pasture analysis is not going to be representative"? 
  
Regarding soaking the hay.  I have held off doing this until I receive the test results for the well water.  Question please - if the water is high in iron, would soaking the hay in this water increase the horses' iron consumption significantly, thus having a negative impact?
 
Thanks again, your input is greatly appreciated.

Lynn Cox
Kern County, CA

May, 2007 

Bella Case History   https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lynn%20and%20Bella
Photos, Bella, Destiny, Zoe, Pip   https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=247665  





Re: Uckele treats GREAT BUY at Chewy 😊

hmfox77@...
 

I saw that too and wondered if it was a mistake! It seemed too good to be true :)
I added them to my next auto ship so hopefully the price stays like that for a little longer. 
And yes, big thanks to whoever let us know about Uckele at Chewy!
--
Heather F
Minnesota
June 2020

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