Date   

Commercial Feed Analysis Library - Tue, 09/08/2020 #cal-notice

main@ECIR.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

Commercial Feed Analysis Library

When:
Tuesday, 8 September 2020

Description:

Commercial Feed Analysis Library

Over the years individual ECIR Group members have sent various commercial feeds to be tested then generously shared the information. The Commercial Feed Analysis Library is a new term for an old file folder where any member can go and view unbiased analyses of commercial feeds. These analyses are a valuable part of the science that the ECIR uses to help our IR and PPID horses and are valuable tools used to prevent laminitis. 

If you have an analysis of a commercial feed please, instead of uploading it to your own folder, please consider sharing it with the entire group by by notifying us here.

View the Commercial Feed Analysis Library 

Thanks for your help and cooperation.

- ECIR Group Owners and Support Team


Re: Concerned and Seeking Advice

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Barbara,

Just some more background for you on the ESC +starch values of these products.

The TC Safe Starch Forage ESC+starch analysis is a typical or average, it isn't a guaranteed one. The product contains added iron, higher fat (min 6%) than desirable and the omega 3 to 6 ratio is inverted.

The Naturals Timothy Balance Cubes are actually manufactured by Ontario Dehy in Canada, then repackaged under the TC name for distribution in some parts of the US. These cubes are guaranteed to be under 10% ESC+starch for every batch. Minerals are balanced, with no added fat. You only need to add plain white salt, vit E and ground flax for a totally safe and complete diet.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Concerned and Seeking Advice

LJ Friedman
 

Following along with your threads. Just a quick observation. With the advent of video etc. Tele visits etc. I  do my very best to avoid a long trailer ride. I don’t think it’s necessary often. Whenever I need an expert on Jesse, I often settle for second-best to avoid the trailer ride. And often second-best is usually good enough,especially  with the advice you’ll get here.
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Concerned and Seeking Advice

 

Thank you, Sherry!  I will look through everything.  The Safe Starch is even lower in starch/carbs then the Timothy Balance Cubes and is in all in one timothy based feed, so she has not been getting anything (no hay or grass) in addition to it other than the supplements.  If I need to change her off of it, I am game for whatever I need to do.  I can see how the Timothy Balance Cubes could have an advantage based on being a limited ingredient product so less chance of a sensitivity to an ingredient.

I fill take the feet photos tomorrow.  

https://www.triplecrownfeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/NSC-page_web_041320.pdf

https://www.triplecrownfeed.com/products/safe-starch-forage/

--
Barbara Sikkink
Oklahoma
2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Barbara%20and%20Eden
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253258


Re: Help for Teeny Desperate for feedback

TERRI JENNINGS
 

Dr. Kellon,
Teeny’s pulse was 36 beats per minute. 
--
Terri Jennings with Teeny, Finn and Elliott
Arcata, CA
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Terri%20and%20Teeny
Joined 2019


Re: ALCAR questions

hdavis
 


Re: Concerned and Seeking Advice

Sherry Morse
 

Hello Barbara,

Welcome to the group.

A bit of housekeeping to start - can you please add the link to your CH folder to your signature: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Barbara%20and%20Eden as well as the link to your photo album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253258?

To do that:

1) Go to this link: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/editsub

2) Look at the bottom of that page for the window where you typed your name and location.

3) Add the link to your folder and then make sure you make it "live". Adding a space after your link or hitting enter on your keyboard will turn it blue.

4) IMPORTANT: Scroll to the bottom and hit SAVE!

Now as far as Eden - looking at your CH she is currently 115lbs overweight.  We recommend feeding either 1.5% of current weight OR 2% of ideal weight - whichever is greater - until ideal weight is reached.  That includes all hay and concentrates.  For horses suspected of being IR or PPID we do not recommend grass (more on this in the Diet section below).  So Eden should be eating no more than 15 pounds a day which appears to be the amount you have her on now.  Since you can get Triple Crown products we recommend Naturals Timothy Balance Cubes as they are mineral balanced and you won't need to provide any other minerals for her. The Safe Starch forage may or may not provide all the vitamins and minerals that she needs.  The other option is to have the hay you're planning on feeding her tested and then having the hay balanced to make sure she's getting all the nutrients she needs in her diet.

For a definitive diagnosis of IR or PPID (although 6 would be unusually young for PPID to be an issue it wouldn't be completely unheard of) you need to have a full metabolic panel run including insulin, glucose and ACTH.  Do you have an actual number for the glucose test that your vet did run? One of the most important things to remember is that you are Eden's advocate and if you want to pay the vet to run bloodwork they should do it, even if they think it will show nothing.  BEFORE doing that though, please read the "Diagnosis" section below and make sure you check the directions on the website - https://www.ecirhorse.org/DDT+E-diagnosis.php - to get the most bang for your buck.

As far as the injury - has she been evaluated to make sure that everything is completely healed internally?  Is her muscling now even on both sides - the picture you posted makes it hard to tell.  It would be really helpful if you could get a full set of hoof photo posted because she appears to have some pretty significant event lines on her hooves.

With all that being said, what follows is our basic welcome letter.  It's a lot of information so feel free to take notes and ask questions once you've read through it all.




Re: Concerned and Seeking Advice

 

This is the Immune Health program - https://strideanimalhealth.com/immune-health-program/

Photos - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253258

--
Barbara Sikkink
Oklahoma
2020


Concerned and Seeking Advice

 

I have a 6 year old Welsh section C mare, Eden, that I am concerned about and I am struggling to get my veterinarian to take my concerns seriously.  I am seeking advice as to if this is something that I should be legitimately concerned about or not.  I posted photos and history in case files.

I have owned this pony since she was 3 years old.  She has always been a perfect weight and never one that leaned to fat.  She has lived on grass her entire life, supplemented with bermuda hay over the winter.  She gets a grass balancer when not in work or Triple Crown Senior when in heavy work.  She is a casual eater.  She is a driving pony and had been in intermittent work depending on the weather and if I had help. 

October 2019, I sent her to a professional trainer.  He was quite far from me and it made visiting difficult, so I was not aware of her condition until May 2020 when she had an accident and I went to assess the situation.  She was quite over weight, but very heavily muscled and fit.  She was working 6 days a week, but only getting 1 hour a day turn out.  She was fed free choice alfalfa and 6 lbs of Purina Impact.  I was not able to bring her home at that time as the vet said it wasn't safe to trailer her with her injury ... she had a huge hematoma at her point of buttock, had micro tears to her hamstring, and torn the top of her rectum.  She recovered quickly and was back in work in 30 days although she was having reoccurring abscesses flaring at her injury site.  She was never unsound, but after her injury, she quit sweating and would blow hard when trotting even a couple of minutes. 

I brought her home in July and put her out in her 1 acre paddock on grass and put her on Triple Crown Lite.  At this point, she had been on One AC for a month and still wasn't sweating, so had vet out.  All I got from them is that she was too fat and at risk for metabolic disease due to her crested neck and fat pads.  I started noticing other things.  Her throat latch is often very swollen, she is extremely itchy all over and rubs constantly, she at times has difficulty swallowing, at a trot she blows hard/loud and has a milky nasal discharge, she is jumpy to touch, she has a definite exercise intolerance which is extremely unusual for her as she is normally "hot" and forward, in the stall her hind legs seem to buckle and stumble but she is normal out of the stall, she is shedding quite a bit and she looks like she is already getting her winter coat in even though it is high 90s here.  In August, I took her back to the vet and they scoped her upper airway and deemed it normal and possible allergies.  They wanted to put her on Thyro L but I was hesitant to do that.  I asked them to run blood work for baseline for metabolic disorder and they only ran glucose which was high normal.  I scalped the grass in a 30' x 80' paddock to get her off grass and put her on Triple Crown Safe Starch only.  I also started her on Stride's Immune Health 30 day supplement program (to treat her microbiome) and Quiessence.  I did see some immediate improvements.  She is sweating now (not normally, but definitely getting sweat) and the roaring noise and milky discharge at trot are gone as is the trouble swallowing.  But, even though she is working 4-5 days a week for 30 to 60 minutes, she is quickly losing her muscle tone and getting a pot belly.  She struggles significantly to canter on a lunge line and under saddle.  

So, I feel like I am throwing darts at a board, but I also feel that my pony is really not right.  Any advice would be appreciated.  I have a veterinary that I greatly respect at KSU that I am willing to make the trip for, but would like to get some feedback before doing so.  

Thank you!

--
Barbara Sikkink
Oklahoma
2020


Re: Current Sinking Founder- 7yr Pony

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Victoria,

Obviously, it's hard to see the radiographs clearly but there doesn't appear to be much bony column rotation at all. Maybe a slight amount on the LF. There is capsular rotation present, which is a different thing. Sole depth is definitely thin but if the dorsal wall markers were placed correctly, there isn't any actual sinking. Was she standing on each leg when the rads were taken?

If you can't get her to eat the meds, syringe everything in.

Although the hay analysis was done via NIR analysis, the mineral portion is via wet chem so that is accurate. The iron in this hay is high so shake the hay out well before feeding it. Ideally, also rinse it before you soak it. If she won't eat anything else, feed her the rinsed/soaked hay for now as she needs to eat. IF it is high nitrate, the soaking will remove some of that as well as lower sugars.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Current Sinking Founder- 7yr Pony

Sherry Morse
 

Victoria,

If you want to make sure she gets the medication into her I would use a syringe and dose her with the meds.  It will probably take more than one syringe to get everything in but that's the only way you'll know for sure she's getting her meds.




Re: Current Sinking Founder- 7yr Pony

Victoria
 

The vet wants to try to get her more comfortable by adding the bute and gabapentin but I cannot get it into her! She is not getting a full does of anything. Metformin dissolved, thyrozine, 2 gabapentin pills and bute paste all with a handful of ration balancer, chia seeds, and salt soaked as per vet--she will not eat. Then I just squeezed some bute paste into her. I gave her one flake soaked hay, it is the only thing she will eat. I will make another bucket of timothy cubes tonight but she prob won't touch them. I'll try getting the safe starch forage tomorrow. Vet said we can xray again towards the end of the week but I don't think she will make it.  I asked for more blood work but vet said because of the state Pip is in, everything will be elevated and won't really help. She is IR and not cushings but should I just try prascend? I have nothing to lose, that's if I can get her to eat it. Any tips to at least get her prescribed meds in? I am so scared and stressed and just feel terrible for her.

She has lost half of her sole depth and has some rotation, I believe 6/7mm.


--
Victoria
Smithtown, NY
2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pippa/Pippa%20Case%20History.pdf
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253218



Re: Hay analysis

Susan
 

As someone who has fed Hoffmans Minerals in the past, I'd carefully check the amount of iron in their mineral. It's at an extremely high 1250 ppm. I definitely wouldn't feed it free choice, like they suggest. If your hay is already high in iron, then you may be overloading your horse with iron.

Regards
--
Susan in BC 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20and%20Copper%20and%20Ella


Re: New Cushings Diagnosis in 19yo Haflinger mare

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hello Amanda,

Welcome to the group! 

Halflingers are a breed that is well known for being extremely easy keepers so managing their weight is a constant battle. Have you had your girl tested for IR as well as the PPID (Cushing's) as Halflingers are also known for being one of the IR -prone breeds? It would be extremely helpful if you would create a case history for your girl (info below) which includes the results of all the blood work that has been done. If she hasn't been tested, then we recommend you have that done as well so you have a fuller picture of exactly what you are dealing with (info in the DIAGNOSIS section below). IR and PPID are two different things but they do interact with one another and PPID will make underlying IR worse, esp. at this time of the year.

Good that she has been removed from her pasture and that her hay is being soaked. This deals with the elevated insulin that would be a potential cause of her elevated pulses/sore feet. Short, generally poor grass can actually be very high in sugars so it isn't safe for a laminitis-prone horse. 

Some horses experience what we call the "pergolide veil" when they start on the medication Prascend (pergolide). This is a transient phase of being somewhat lethargic and generally "blah" and may include a reluctance to eat well. You can either wait this out or add the adaptogen APF, which helps them adjust to the effects of the medication much more quickly. Tapering her dose up to whatever total your vet has prescribed also helps. More details on this are found below in the TREATMENT section.

Have a read thru the rest of this message - warning, it contains a LOT of information, with links to even more specifics - so can seme a tad daunting at first. Just take your time going thru it and ask any questions that you may have. Saving the message somewhere easy to locate will be helpful for future reference.


The ECIR Group provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin and glucose.

The fat-derived hormone leptin is also usually abnormally elevated in insulin resistance but because there are many other things which can lower or increase leptin ECIR is not recommending routine testing for this hormone. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating".

In Europe, adiponectin is tested instead of leptin. Adiponectin helps regulate glucose and fat burning, and maintain insulin sensitivity. Low levels are associated with EMS. It has come to be preferred over leptin because it is not influenced by things like weight or exercise, and also because it was the only factor other than insulin levels that predicted laminitis risk

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: IR is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine. If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for IR/PPID individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to IR/PPID equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you.


--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Question for the Canadian folk

Lecia Martin
 


-- Kirsten   I took some photos for you but I will freely admit that I am technically challenged.  I have spent countless hours trying to figure out how to upload pictures, xrays etc. and am no farther ahead.   Leeanne uploaded my case history and my daughter does the updates when she comes home to visit. I can barely run my phone.  LOL. So can I email them to you privately or can you walk me thru the process.   I have read and re- read the instructions a million times and feel pretty stupid. I would love to know how to do this on my own as I have current xrays and hoof photos I would like to add,  as well as my other horse's case history.
Thanks,
Lecia Flyte and Flame
Alberta, Canada
Mar 2017
Flame Case History


Re: Vitamin E

 

Hi Susie, I'm not a veterinarian so I don't know the correct answer, but I do that when my horse resented with neurological symptoms one of the things my vet had me do was put him on 10,000 iu's of vit e daily for a while. We did eventually bring it down to 4000.
--
Cari Johnson
San Diego, CA
2019
Rio's Case History
Rio's Case Photos


Re: Hay analysis

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Sylvie,

Do you have a copy of the hay analysis that you can put into a photo album on the Case History sub-group?

Do you have an ingredient list for the BiAaMuGen?

Is there a guaranteed analysis for the Hoffman's Performance minerals?

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Amino acid- IR

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

Hello Sylvie,

Welcome to the group! 

Easy keepers can be tough. To get weight off, you need to make sure you weigh everything that passes thru their lips so that the total daily intake doesn't exceed 1.5% to 2% of their ideal body weight. Less than that will cause the body to go into a starvation mode, where calories get conserved even more, making weight loss even more difficult. Exercise is a great addition, the more the better. Although EMS/IR horses tend to gain weigh easily, being overweight does not cause EMS/IR. Generally, QH are not a breed that is high on the list of IR-prone horses, but you need to treat every horse as an individual.

Amino acids aren't going to add weight in-and-of themselves but supplementing them isn't necessarily the answer to the hoof problems. You need to start by knowing what is in the diet your girl is already eating, then make sure to supplement both what is missing and balance out what is in excess. Pre/probiotics also won't help. This requires getting your hay analyzed, then supplementing appropriately based on the analysis. All hay is deficient in copper and zinc, which are major components in hoof health. Lysine and methionine are also important but won't help if you already have enough in the diet.

In order to give you the best advice, we really need you to create a case history for your girl so we have all the specifics available to answer your questions properly. Links to do this are found below. Creating a photo album with a full set of hoof photos would also help enormously. See the TRIM section below for more specifics and links.

The remainder of this message is our Official Welcome, which contains a boat load of helpful information and links. Don't be daunted by the amount of info, just have a read thru and save the post for future reference as needed. Click on any of the text in blue to take you to more in-depth explanations. Please don't hesitate to ask if you get stuck at any point.


The ECIR Group provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin and glucose.

The fat-derived hormone leptin is also usually abnormally elevated in insulin resistance but because there are many other things which can lower or increase leptin ECIR is not recommending routine testing for this hormone. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating".

In Europe, adiponectin is tested instead of leptin. Adiponectin helps regulate glucose and fat burning, and maintain insulin sensitivity. Low levels are associated with EMS. It has come to be preferred over leptin because it is not influenced by things like weight or exercise, and also because it was the only factor other than insulin levels that predicted laminitis risk

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: IR is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine. If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for IR/PPID individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to IR/PPID equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you.


--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Accidental overdose of ALCAR

hdavis
 

On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 02:08 PM, Lavinia Fiscaletti wrote:
Hi Heather,

Can you please clarify: are you talking about Alcar:  acetyl- l-carnitine or L-arginine? They are two different things.

Alcar is dosed at 1g per 100lbs body weight.

As far as I'm aware, Stormy shouldn't have any issues.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


 Hello Lavinia,

I am asking about overdose of ALCAR as have her 25 grams by accident. ALCAR helps with pain for feet correct for horses that have had damage to feet from day years of being shod, high heels and even DDFT issues?  I thought u would try ALCAR for her to help with her pain.  But perhaps it is more of an issue with the cooler temps and damaged feet so maybe l-arginine would be better for her?

Glad to know she won’t have side effects from the overdose. 


Thanks again!!!
--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa Case History
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

 Photos

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0  .


Storm

Case History



photos

 
 

 




Hay analysis

sylvie laurin <sylvielaurin59@...>
 

As recommended by your group msn response to my incapacity to understand my hay result and my suspicion about an IR horse, blood to be done this week. 
Currently giving 
1. amino Hoffmans BiAaMGen supplements (Recommended by Hoffman’s nutritionist to help on weak hoof walls and sole) 
 2.  Hoffmans performance Minerals and Hay in slow feeder 
I am questioning the amino supplements and impact on IR horse???
Thank you for your help
Sylvie Laurin
Chertsey,Qc, Canada  

--
Sylvie Laurin
Chertsey, Qc, Canada

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