WAS: Question for the Canadian folk / NOW: Lecia & Flyte's photo album

Kirsten Rasmussen

Hi Lecia,

I see you have a photo album for Flyte.  This is the link to it:

You can add the link to your signature and then you will have an easy shortcut for finding your album.  To do this:

1) Go to this link to amend your auto-signature:

2) Scroll down to the signature window, and under your name paste the link to the photo album that I have provided above, then hit "Enter/Return" on your keyboard to add a line and to turn your link blue.

3) IMPORTANT: Scroll to the bottom and hit SAVE!

Now the link is in your signature and you can click on it to find Flyte's photo album.  You may need to start a "New Topic" as if you are posting a new question just to see your signature links and click on them, but you don't need to actually hit "Send".

In her photo album you should see some blue buttons at the top, including an "Add Photos" button.  Click on it, then in the new window that opens click on the blue "Browse" button.  This is where it is tricky because you need to know where the photos are saved so you can navigate to them on your computer/phone/etc.  This is usually where people need on-site help, like a teenager that is more tech savy...  Assuming you find your photos and have selected them, and they have all appeared in the window above the Browse button, you should be able to click on the blue "Add" button to finish and then wait for them to upload and appear in your album.

I hope that helps!

We can help you set up a new photo album for Flame, too, but see if you can manage the above stuff first.  One thing about this platform is that it gets easier with time.   I was lost when I started but by spending lots of time in here and gradually clicking on different things I started to understand it better.  It's all about having time to explore it as it's not an overnight learning experience by any means.

Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   

Re: Difficulty posting CH in folder for both horses

Sherry Morse

Hi Marsha,

Right now it doesn't look like you have any documents posted in your folder.  Normally what we would ask for someone with 2 horses is that they have one main folder named "Human and Horse1 and Horse2" and then within that folder have a Case History for each horse.  If you then add hay analysis or other documents related to a specific horse it's sometimes easier to create a sub-folder for each one but that's a step further down the road.

Do you have your Case History saved on your device in a place you can locate it?  That's the very first step of what you need to do. 

Then you need to go to your Case History folder ( and click on the "+New" button which will open a drop down list.

In the drop down list click on "Upload File" and then in the dialog box you'll need to click the browse button.

Navigate to the saved file (that's why you need to know where it is) and click on it, then click "Open" in that dialog box.  That will bring you back to the upload dialog box where you will click on the "Add" button and then your file will be in the Case History folder.

If you get stuck in that process let us know where you are getting stuck so we'll know where you need help.

Difficulty posting CH in folder for both horses


Hi!  I have been having trouble getting my CH's posted.  I am using a tablet and perhaps that is part of the problem?  Your site is knowledgeable and supportive to helping our horses and I am appreciative of your help!  I am afraid I have posted things incorrectly and feel I may need to start over. Thank you!!
Buzzem TN  2017
Marsha B

Re: Finding the right dose of Prascend

Megan and Reign

Thanks for the suggestion, Kirsten. I decided to skip the fig, although the amount of WSC+starch in his hay is less than 6% and he only gets the grass that tries to grow around the edges of his paddock, so he may be able to manage a daily fig. I’ll go back to it if I can’t find something else that works. He took his pill in a peanut butter and ground flax treat yesterday. Here’s hoping.

2019, Gig Harbor, Washington

Aged Pregnant Mare help!!!!


Hello all. I'm new to this group.

I have a 25 yr old mare -- I bottled raised her mother, and she has spent her entire life here, and is so precious to me.  We've been trying to get a foal from her to carry on her legacy, and finally this year we were successful. My vet had no issues with breeding her, as she looks like a 15 yr old mare, has a toned and "young" uterus (she has had 1 foal, for a friend, several years ago).  This past winter when she haired up A LOT, I didn't think a lot of it, because here in Houston we have had some cold winters, some mild, and I can always tell how cold a winter will be by how much the horses hair up -- and all of them haired up more than normal.

Joy has been getting a tablespoon of chasteberry powder at every feeding for years.

She started to get fussy about her feed about the time she got pregnant.  She lost the long winter hair but kept the shorter winter hair; again I wasn't too concerned as all the horses hung onto their hair longer (we had cold nights much later this year than usual).  However, when she came up "ouchy" a week or so before her 120 day ultrasound, I was concerned. I had spent a month with a shedding blade at every feeding, with the barn aisle looking like a snowstorm had hit every time.  When we went to the vet, he xrayed her feet and she indeed has some rotation (he didn't tell me how much).  I got a copy of the xrays for my farrier who was coming 7 days later.  In the meantime the vet had me giving her 1g of Bute a couple of times a day.

I called my farrier. The vet had recommended lily pads, which confused my farrier.  He bought some to show me, but we ended up with a plastic pressure pad under a normal shoe and he shortened her toe quite a bit.  She was immediately sound after the shoes.  However, 2 weeks ago she got sore again.  I've put an ice boot on her right front leg (the one with the least amount of rotation, but the intensely sore foot right now) which she hates and I don't see much improvement.

When the original rotation was discovered we immediately put her on Triumph Safe Choice Special Care by Nutrena (per my vet recommendation) and coastal hay (which she had always been on); switched from Nutrena Triump Senior and a 12% dry mix. 

I need help.  The mare is pregnant and my vet says he can't do the Cushings test until after she foals (but I'm betting that she's positive). She's getting 1/4c of Chasteberry powder daily in her feed, along with red raspberry leaves.  I tried a 25 day sample of Equinety but didn't see much difference so I didn't keep it up. I am giving her CortaFlx, 1 oz per feeding.

I would love some advice!  I'm hoping the issue with the soreness right now is that the plastic pad stretched, and once the farrier resets her next week she will be OK again.  Should she be put in a heart bar shoe instead?  Or something else?

This is my baby, and she's in foal with my next generation of her line.  I can't stand the thought of her being in pain, I hate seeing it in her eyes.  I need to do what's right for her but I'm hoping that someone can give me some hope that I can get her past this. She's never been lame a day in her life before this.
Marcie Fessler
Houston, Texas
September 2020

Re: New Poll - Important #poll-notice

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

Yes, please.
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001

Re: Question for the Canadian folk - now photos

Sherry Morse

Hi Lecia,

Well you already have a photo album so that's half the battle right there -

If you can add that to your signature that would be great.  To do that:

1) Go to this link:

2) Look at the bottom of that page for the window where you typed your name and location.

3) Add the link to your folder and then make sure you make it "live". Adding a space after your link or hitting enter on your keyboard will turn it blue.

4) IMPORTANT: Scroll to the bottom and hit SAVE!

Then to add photos to the album:

1) Click on the "+Add Photos" at the top
2) Once the dialog box opens click on the "Browse" button
3) Navigate to the folder where your photos are saved on your device
4) Click on the photo you want to upload and the click on the "Open" button in that window
5) That will bring you back to the upload dialog box where you can click on the "Add" button to add the photo to the album

If any of that doesn't make sense let us know where you're having a problem and we can help walk you through it.

Re: Concerned and Seeking Advice


I don't use and recommend much, but, Triple Crown makes an AWESOME ground flax (nothing else just flax). 

It has a two year shelf life if stored appropriately.  And around here it is reasonable ($30 for 25 pounds I'm thinking)

Pal & Savvy
N. Alabama
Aug 2013
Case History 

Re: New Poll - Important #poll-notice

Sherry Hite

Do you want those of us who soak our hay to respond with our “after soaking” numbers?
Sherry & Pepper, August 2015, No. Calif


Case History:

Photo Album:  .



Re: Concerned and Seeking Advice


Barbara, I also have a Welsh Section C pony. When he arrived he was put in a small pasture. In four months he had gained 120 pounds. *A pound a day* There were also skin allergies. Fortunately through this group's protocol, that weight gain and allergic issues have been corrected. 
Your little beauty is in the right place to receive improved health. We will be following your progress!
Bonnie and Lad
North Ontario
Dec 2008

New Poll - Important #poll-notice

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

As you all know, we do not consider fructan - a component of NSC and WSC - when evaluating the likely safety of a hay but recommendations to limit NSC rather than ESC are still very common elsewhere.

If you have a hay analysis and are safely (no laminitis flares) feeding the hay, please answer the question:

What is the NSC of your hay?  [NSC = WSC + starch]


See Who Responded

Re: Current Sinking Founder- 7yr Pony

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

Both the metformin and the NSAIDs (bute and Banamine) can cause oral ulcers; the NSAIDs stomach ulcers (and colonic) as well - not to mention kidney damage, restricted circulation, delayed healing, impeded abscess drainage. Her feet clearly show chronic laminitis but no changes that couldn't be rehabed. Toes need to come back.

  You could ask your vet about a trial of omeprazole for possible gastric ulcers. If syringing in metformin, be sure to rinse the mouth thoroughly. Use Milk of Magnesia as a carrier for bute instead of water.

IMO the pain meds are doing more harm than good. They just don't work that well for endocrine-related laminitis pain and side effects are significant. We see better results with Jiaogulan or Jiaogulan + Devil's Claw to start. She may have neuropathic pain as well since this is a chronic situation.
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001

Re: ALCAR questions

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

The dose is 1 g/100 lbs of body weight. You can divide it between meals.  More isn't harmful but it may not help, especially with cold induced pain.  The ALCar helps with neuropathic pain which is pain that is exaggerated due to changes in the nerves and spinal cord. Those changes have been documented in horses with chronic laminitis.

Yes, it's safe long term.

I don't recall any horses whose pain has responded that quickly. ALCar does have other effects, particularly in improving muscle function. Do you know what the horse side of his parentage was? I'm wondering if he has a myopathy that it is helping.

Don't worry about it masking pain. If he's limping, he still feels pain. It only helps specifically with neuropathic pain.
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001

Re: Help for Teeny Desperate for feedback

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

Good. That's normal.  Doesn't rule out a thyroid issue completely though.
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001

Re: Concerned and Seeking Advice

Eleanor Kellon, VMD


It will make your feeding decisions a lot easier if you can convince one of your vets to test her insulin. On the current diet and in work she should test normal (work is the best insulin-buster there is). If it is still high, you will need to still be restrictive. If normal, she can move to the diet for EMS horses/ponies in work where she can get something to help  replenish her glycogen stores after work. What usually works well is a combination of 50:50 beet pulp and oats (by dry weight measure).  This should only be fed within an hour of stopping work, when muscle is very glucose hungry.

Do you know anyone who is diabetic? If you can borrow a glucometer, the easiest test for whether she needs her diet liberalized a bit as above is to check her blood sugar before and 10 minutes after stopping work. You only need a  drop of blood. If it goes down, she needs glycogen replenished.

Glycogen is the storage form of glucose in liver and muscles. When levels drop too low you see issues of poor work tolerance/endurance and power. Muscle bulk may decline because glycogen and the water stored in muscle because of it contribute to bulk. That said, most areas of obvious muscling, like the back and rump, have a generous layer of fat over them so simply losing fat can look like loss of muscle. The best area to watch for actual  muscle loss is the upper leg. Very little fat there.

She will still be able to lose fat if you liberalize her diet a bit as long as total calories are not too high.

She's a beauty!
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001

Re: Concerned and Seeking Advice



With Eden being in moderate to heavy work (combined driving), do I need to reduce her work load?  I am already seeing a significant loss of muscle tone, stamina, and power since I changed her diet.  I know that there is going to need to be some sacrifices to get her weight down and healthy again, while still trying to maintain her fitness and ability to perform.

I will have the feed store order the Naturals Timothy Balance Cubes for her and will switch her over.  Do you have a preference on brand of ground flax?

Barbara Sikkink

Re: Concerned and Seeking Advice


Thanks ... I will check with my vet at KSU and see if that is an option.
Barbara Sikkink

Re: Question for the Canadian folk

KATHIE DORVAL <bokayarabians@...>

Don't feel stupid, I have been trying for 2 years to do a case history and still don't have it! Not everyone is tech savvey.
Kathie with Libby and Sweet P
Cobble Hill, BC, Canada
Aug 2018
Case Histories
Target Photos
Sweet P Photos
Addy Photos
Cherokee Photos

Re: New pretrim pictures posted for mark-ups #photo

Lavinia Fiscaletti

Hi Judy,

I've added the latest mark-ups to Bugsy's album:

Huge improvements since you started this campaign and Bugsy has been the beneficiary of all your hard work. I would recommend continuing to do a once weekly soak with the ACV but pack with the goo only if you notice any kind of tenderness in those heel cracks. Keep this up until the "butt cracks" heal up entirely. That crack on the lateral wall of the RF is just the thinning, damaged wall disintegrating as it grows out. Just rasp that entire area away as it's within the flaring wall that is being removed. It appears as if there is definite concavity developing. This starts in the center and moves its way out toward the perimeter. The flatter areas out toward the perimeter are areas that haven't yet developed enough sole thickness so just be patient:

On any surfaces where he isn't comfortable, continue to use boots until he has developed enough sole to be comfortable. Working him barefoot on surfaces he IS comfortable on is fine. Also remember that feet adapt to whatever surface they spend the most time on, so eventually he will need to acclimate to harder/sharper surfaces on a regular basis if you are going to ride on these types of surfaces. Or, he'll need boots for those times while remaining barefoot where he rsides.

At this point, the continue to remove all the flaring in the lower 1/3 of the walls so it remains out of ground contact. When beveling the from the bottom, don't invade the soles - keep the bevels confined only to the walls. Heels are the biggest ongoing correction, while the walls are mainly a maintenance issue now. Generally, remember to be very targeted in what you DO and in what you DON'T do. It's OK to NOT touch parts of a foot if they don't need any work.

RF dorsal: Green lines show where to keep removing those flares all around. You can see them quite clearly if you put your face next to the leg and look straight down on the hoof from above. You'll see how the tight the new growth is and where the older, damaged, disconnected material flares away from that tight growth. Just keep rasping that flared material inward until it matches the angle from above, then finish the bottom with a bevel to keep what remains out of ground contact.

RF lateral sole plane: Green line shows where the flare is. Blue hashed area is the remaining laminar wedge in the toe area. Blue arrow that goes from the crack to the heel buttress is where to heavily rasp/bevel that area completely away so that is no longer part of the weight bearing. Leave the bar at it's current height at what was the heel-bar junction. This helps the heels to relax down and back while preserving the overall vertical height. Check out  this link, esp. Figures 2,3,4:

Purple arc is where the bevel at the toe is now - remove the damaged material ahead of this but don't bevel behind this point.

RF sole: Purple arc is the same as the one on the lateral sole plane view. You can see the black sharpie mark you made at the front edge of the bevel ahead of this line but the actual bevel starts at the purple line. All the blue hashed areas need to be removed so the overall foot becomes smaller and tighter to the perimeter of the sole. Blue arrows are where the bars need to be made into the weight bearing structures so the connected blue-hashed wall areas need to be beveled out of ground contact there. Yellow hashes are along the edges of the bars, where a bit of tidying up is needed. Don't do too much, just define that edge a bit more.

LF dorsal: Same as RF.

LF lateral sole plane: See RF, same view.

LF sole: Same idea as the RF, just the bars aren't ready for defining just yet.

RH dorsal: Medial flare more pronounced than lateral one at this point. Keep in mind that the hinds tend to be more oval in shape than the fronts but with the extensive flaring of the heels, the foot is currently looking much rounder. Once you get those flares controlled, and the heels back in and under the horse, they will suddenly look a lot more oval.

RH sole: Follow the discussion regarding the fronts. There has been much more beveling of the fronts than the hinds, so adding a stronger bevel all around will help control the wall flares and ease the breakover at the toe.

LH dorsal: Mirror of the RH.

LH sole: Same as the RH.

Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

Commercial Feed Analysis Library - Tue, 09/08/2020 #cal-notice Calendar <noreply@...>

Commercial Feed Analysis Library

Tuesday, 8 September 2020


Commercial Feed Analysis Library

Over the years individual ECIR Group members have sent various commercial feeds to be tested then generously shared the information. The Commercial Feed Analysis Library is a new term for an old file folder where any member can go and view unbiased analyses of commercial feeds. These analyses are a valuable part of the science that the ECIR uses to help our IR and PPID horses and are valuable tools used to prevent laminitis. 

If you have an analysis of a commercial feed please, instead of uploading it to your own folder, please consider sharing it with the entire group by by notifying us here.

View the Commercial Feed Analysis Library 

Thanks for your help and cooperation.

- ECIR Group Owners and Support Team

9101 - 9120 of 260169