Date   

Re: Thoughts on laminitis episode for Canadian mare

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

If her pain is being driven by laminitis from elevated insulin, the sooner her diet is controlled the better she will feel.  I don't want to rush a move if you're not ready because 2 weeks is not long to wait, but if her current hay has not been tested and the barn can't soak it and she's still in her laminitic flare up, then she might improve sooner on a more controlled diet.  Ultimately it's your decision to weigh the pros and cons.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Hay Analysis Help

hansonemm@...
 

I just got my hay analysis back and had been planning on sending it to Gwen Decker at Uckele to help me balance it, but it says I don't have the correct email address when I try to send her an email (I used the direct link to her email that is in one of the group files on here) If anyone could let me know where I can contact her at, or if anyone else would like to take a look at my hay analysis and give your opinion, I would greatly appreciate it! I attached a PDF of it to my case history folder. 
--
Emma Hanson
Southwest Wisconsin, USA
Joined 2020
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Emma%20and%20Shadoh
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=252728&p=Name,,,20,2,0,0


Re: Thoughts on laminitis episode for Canadian mare

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Pat,

Do you know how much the 3 flakes weigh?  At this point we're really more concerned with the weight than the number of flakes.




Re: Dried Oak Leaves - Donkeys

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Philippa,

A quick search of the Google says leaves can be dangerous to all species of animals:

Oak buds in the spring and green acorn hulls in the fall cause oak poisoning in horses. Oak toxins are highest in:

  • Immature leaves

  • Members of the black and red oak species

  • Immature acorns


https://news.vet.tufts.edu/2018/09/ask-the-expert-the-truth-about-acorn-toxicity/: Oak (Quercus species) toxicity in horses is not common. While most portions of the oak tree; blossoms, buds, leaves, stems, and acorns can be toxic, horses are often not affected because it requires eating a large amount of oak leaves or acorns to show clinical signs.




Re: Thoughts on laminitis episode for Canadian mare

Pat
 

Maybe I should move her sooner? Her planned stall not available but a small one is available now.

--
Pat
August 2020
Metro Vancouver BC Canada
Case: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Willow
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253325


Re: Thoughts on laminitis episode for Canadian mare

Pat
 

Actually I have dropped her to 3 flakes per day of timothy and she has been entirely prevented from going on grass for two weeks. I may not have put that into the history....

I'm adjusting supplements as suggested above.

She's on full board 35 mins away, so unfortunately I cannot soak her hay. 

She is moving to a barn that has tested hay sometime in the next 2 weeks.
--
Pat
August 2020
Metro Vancouver BC Canada
Case: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Willow
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253325


Re: UK bloodwork results help for Red and Kim

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Kim,

Do you know if those bloodwork results were fasting or non-fasting?  As far as the ACTH - that is a high result even given that we are in the midst of the seasonal rise and one that I would be concerned about, even if the vet is not.  You can read more about the Liphook range here: https://liphookequinehospital.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Seasonal-Changes-in-ACTH-Secretion2.pdf

For the insulin - the conversion from miu/l to pmol/l give a result of 15 pmol/l for insulin which (unless I've totally mucked up the calculations) indicates that Red is not IR, but he is PPID as per the ACTH test so that is something that should be addressed.

I would also be concerned about the alignment of the bony column in the xray that you were able to share - there are definitely some trim changes that can help with that but I'm going to leave it to Lavinia to explain those.




Re: Current Sinking Founder- 7yr Pony

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Victoria,

The bute will not help a metabolic laminitis so you can probably taper down as Kirsten already outlined or if she hasn't gotten any bute since she wasn't eating it you can probably just stop it.  Not sure if the gabapentin will do anything for her either.




Dried Oak Leaves - Donkeys

Philippa
 

Hi

I was wondering if anyone knows if dried oak leaves are safe for donkeys to eat? I know that acorns & green leaves are not good - but am unsure about the autumn leaves. My donkeys seem to Hoover them up when they blow into their paddock. One of my donkeys has Cushings & has had chronic laminitis over the last year which has been under control until a couple of days ago after wind blew more leaves in. I’m trying to source the trigger. But it could be the wormer I drenched them with?

Any advice would be appreciated  

Thanks  

Philippa  



--
Philippa New Zealand 2020
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Philippa%20&%20Abraham  ;


Re: Thoughts on laminitis episode for Canadian mare

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Pat,

While Willow is very cute there is definitely a bit too much of her to love.  If her current weight is 1200 her ideal is probably closer to 1100 (or less).  Based on that she should be eating no more than 22 pounds TOTAL per day - including hay and concentrates.  You can read the diet section of the website for information on this - https://www.ecirhorse.org/DDT+E-diet.php.

You have her current intake listed as 25 - 30 pounds of hay a day and she appears to still be out on grass for some period of time as well. At this point, until she's lost weight and her feet issues are resolved, the best thing you can do for her is get her into a dry lot or she needs to wear a completely closed muzzle when she is turned out and obviously this should only be for very short periods of time as she'll need to be able to drink which won't be possible with the closed muzzle.  Then her hay needs to be weighed and she needs to be limited to the 22 pounds a day so she can start to safely lose weight.  If the hay isn't tested please follow the information in the emergency diet and make sure it's soaked before being fed to her. 

Information on the bloodwork that you need to request from the vet is in the welcome email Kirsten already provided but I think it's a very good guess that she's IR and getting her diet and trim in order will go a long way to helping her feel better.  Until she's had time to adjust to the new trim I would not be forcing her to do any exercise and there's nothing wrong with leaving her in boots so she's comfortable enough to move around on her own.





Re: WAS: Question for the Canadian folk / NOW: Lecia & Flyte's photo album

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Great!  Let us know when you have photos uploaded, then we will give you your next assignment (sneak peek: putting all of Flyte's case history information into one folder, and adding that link to your signature).

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: ALCAR questions

Jennifer Murphy
 

Thank you for responding; his dam was a miniature horse. 
He's been pretty sore and slow for a long time, but maybe it was sore muscles.  My vet is coming back in three weeks to do another round of blood work as he's finally eating his meals with the Metformin in them, I'll ask her what she thinks.

--
Jennifer in NH
2020

CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea

Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Re: Current Sinking Founder- 7yr Pony

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Good to hear!

Ideally you would taper off the NSAIDS so there is no rebound effect, which can increase pain.  The jiaogulan and Devil's Claw can be started anytime, even while on NSAIDS. 
  
From our files:

Start tapering by keeping the current dose the same but stretching out the intervals between doses. E.g.:START: 2 grams bute once a day
DAY 1 through 3 of Taper: 2 grams every 36 hours
DAY 4 through 6 of Taper: 2 grams every 48 hours
DAY 7: 1.5 grams every 48 hours
DAY 8: 1.0 gram every 48 hours 
DAY 9: 0.5 gram once, then stop
 

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: UK bloodwork results help for Red and Kim

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Kim, thanks for updating it before posting!  There is a place on the first page of the Case History where you can write the date it was updated, too.

The link for your Case History in your signature should be changed to:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Red

Sounds like he is doing much better so I am happy for you!  That ACTH is high.  The thing with not treating it with pergolide is that PPID is a progressive condition, and has effects other than laminitis, like: compromised immune system, enhanced allergic reactions, muscle loss, increased soft tissue injuries, etc.  I would think it warrants medication even if the insulin isn't elevated because of it, but maybe some of our more experienced volunteers or Dr Kellon can add their input on that, and on why the MIRG suggests IR but the rest of the bloodwork is normal.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Current Sinking Founder- 7yr Pony

Victoria
 

Update- this morning she was more alert and evening standing a little better! Which is actually more confusing because I don't think she actually got any meds yesterday. Today I syringed the dissolved metformin, 2g bute paste, 2 gabapentin pills (force fed). This afternoon-still alert and moving around more! Farrier came to lower heels to relieve toe pressure. I noticed she is more curious about the timothy cubes and even had a few bites so it would be amazing if I can get her off of the hay so I know she's will be eating healthier. Still giving her soaked hay for now as well. She ate the thyrozine mixed with chia, ration balancer, 1000IU vit e, salt, turmeric. Then she got her pm dose of metformin. Should I skip the bute paste and gabapentin tonight? Thank you all for your help. Any other suggestions are appreciated!

--
Victoria
Smithtown, NY
2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pippa/Pippa%20Case%20History.pdf
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253218



Re: Hemp Bedding

celestinefarm
 

It can get stuck if it is too small.  Maybe increase the size of the "peas".. The idea with pea gravel is that Dr. Bowkers studies have shown it increases blood flow and hydraulic flow through the feet and allows the horse to position their feet where they are comfortable.

I believe Dr. Bowker's presentation to the ECIR group on this study is available to download at no charge. I don't have time to find it for you , maybe one of the mods can link.

--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Re: Thoughts on laminitis episode for Canadian mare

Rhonda Turley
 

I too have a wonderful Canadian gelding.  This group was a lifesaver for him. He foundered during the covid shutdown.. Canadians are known as easy keepers.  I have many Canadian owners/breeders on my facebook page if you would like to talk to others.  My gelding is now sound and back in light work.  Follow the directions provided here for best results.
--
Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020
Scooter and Rhonda     


Re: Question for the Canadian folk

Rhonda Turley
 

it took me several months to get my horse's case history.  I had to nag, email, phone to get my vets to email me the actual results from testing.  
--
Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020
Scooter and Rhonda     


UK bloodwork results help for Red and Kim

Kim Bergin
 

Hi there,

I have just uploaded an updated case history form with blood work results and updated the photo album with xrays (although I'm currently missing RF lateral xray view). Please can someone with experience of UK measurements take a look at the bloodwork results and let me know what your diagnosis is? The EMS calculator says High Insulin responder with MIRG only. What does this mean?

ACTH levels did come back high but because the insulin blood levels were lab normal our vet said not to worry?

He is currently still on 11kg soaked hay per 24 hours but is moving very nicely on both hard and soft surfaces. He is not on any painkillers. He is stabled during the day but at night is out on his own in our 20m X 40m sand arena with freedom to roam between haynets.

Until we understand more about the blood results we are not sure how to progress from here?

--
Kim Bergin UK 2020

Case History URL: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Red/Kim%20and%20Red  .


Photo album URL: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=252613


Re: WAS: Question for the Canadian folk / NOW: Lecia & Flyte's photo album

Lecia Martin
 

oh my gosh I think I got it finally!  Woo hoo! Now for the photos etc. It may take me some time to figure out how to go from phone to computer.   Thanks Kirsten and Sherry
--
Lecia Flyte and Flame
Alberta, Canada

15641 - 15660 of 266745