Date   

Re: stevia used as sweetener

Cheryl Oickle
 

I use a small dried apricot. Slit the top insert the pills.  It may have a bit of sugar but no worse than other suggestions I have seen and tried.  It is a positive experience for Jewel and she thinks it is a treat.
Cheryl and Jewel

--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063


Re: A Tribute to Our Volunteers

Penny Duthie
 

A wonderful well deserved gesture.
I’m fairly new to the group and dont have any IR /PPID horses and still learning lots!
Thank you all!!


--
Penny Duthie
Grant, Florida
Joined January 2020


Re: Leptin test and Timothy cubes - western Canada

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Hilary,

Just wanted to second what Kirsten said about Amika's current body condition and having the insulin and glucose levels done so you have a baseline for future reference.  I'm not so sure about the 'sweet mare' though - that picture from 2017 she looks none too pleased to be having her picture taken!



Re: A Tribute to Our Volunteers

Sarah Braithwaite
 

Bravo to Martha 🙏 and thank you 

Sarah 2010 UK 


Forageplus Ltd
Unit 10
Broncoed Business Park
Ffordd Nercwys
Mold 
Flintshire
CH7 1HP

Tel: 01352 700841 www.forageplus.co.uk
www.forageplustalk.co.uk 

On 17 Sep 2020, at 15:03, Eleanor Kellon, VMD <drkellon@...> wrote:

I guarantee you that without our army of volunteers, both visible here and behind the scenes, this group would not exist!  I am going to start of feature of introducing them to you. Once a month we will feature one of these key people.

To start it off,  meet Martha McSherry.

In her own words:

Been on this planet 3/4 of a century

Born in NYC, lived in and still have ties to California (Santa Barbara and the SF Bay Area), Northern Arizona, Houston, and Northern Vermont, where I’ve been the past 45 years

Scientifically trained, and trained and trained. 

Successful husbandry of beef cows, a Jersey cow, pigs, sheep, llamas, geese, chickens, horses, one husband (first husband not so successful), three kids and a part time stepdaughter and numerous dogs and cats.

Enjoy knitting and sewing as a part of my love of puzzle solving

Introduced to horses at age 9 in SB.  That’s me holding down the rump.

 

 

A horse of my own (Morgan) finally! at 35.  

Love dressage training, hate to compete (enough of that in academia),  Considerable experience as a novice vaulting longeur 

Learned so much from having horses, as a boarder and at home with total care responsibility and now learning how to communicate with barn helpers.  

Advice to pass on.  If your horse isn’t rideable and you’d still like to ride, you will learn so much by riding other people’s horses.  Thank you to all the generous people who were willing to have me ride their horses when mine was out of commission.  Would consider taking on a retired upper level dressage horse to continue feeding my fantasy.  That said, it’s been two years since I’ve ridden and I’m now trying to feel more secure on a bicycle. 

Feel very honored to be able to work as an ECIR volunteer.  I am learning so much from those with more experience and from all the questions and comments of the members.

 


Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Not enough iron

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Anthie, I believe you mean Mn = 850 mg, and Mn to Zn is just under 1:1?  If that's the case then that, and the Zn:Cu sound pretty close to perfect. 

My understanding is you don't have to worry about the low Fe:Cu; it should be <4 for IR horses and lower is ok, too.

According to Dr Kellon, iron-deficiency has only been documented in foals that are stalled with no access to the outdoors.  IOW, no iron stores built up in their body yet, and no access to environmental iron (dirt).

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Leptin test and Timothy cubes - western Canada

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Yes that is quite low for protein.  There are discussions in our messages here and in Horsekeeping about adding field or split peas to increase protein, which Kathleen will undoubtedly be aware of.  As for Ca, beet pulp is a good source but is also high in calories and not labour-free.  Crushed calcium pills work, too.  But Ca doesn't seem overly low to me when I look at the analysis so are you sure it needs supplementing?  You could also investigate a Mad Barn custom mix, which might be cheaper than feeding the Amino Trace+ at 200g/day.

Too bad about the ESC being higher this year.  I guess you already know it should be soaked.  Have you put her on the new hay yet and is she tolerating it?

It's great that she is getting regular exercise so keep that up as it will help keep the insulin down.  While it would be nice to see a hint of rib in your photos, her condition looks fairly good to me and she doesn't have much of a crest so I think you are doing well managing Amika.   Would be good to know her insulin and glucose to get better insight on where she is at, and have a baseline for future reference but I don't think bloodwork is critical for her right now.

She is a beautiful horse.  Another sweet looking Canadian mare.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Horse with Cushing's syndrome from Slovakia- new member

LJ Friedman
 


-prascend Isn’t given by weight of the horse. I have read that show that 70% of horses will do well  on 1 tablet .But 30% do not do well and half of those do very poorly. Why are you on 1/2 of a tablet?-
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: New Member - Bullitt Laminitis

LJ Friedman
 

i looked your case history. I find SmartPak products are usually overpriced. I don’t see you feeling any salt? For a regular size horse 1 to 2 ounces salt is recommended. Of course you would need less. You can save money on using vitamin E capsules in soy oil . A store brand like CVS has buy one get one free and for your small horses way they would cost for a little money. What about flax? I use ground stabilized flax. from the horse stores ( formerly called omega3 ground flax??? 
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: New Member - Bullitt Laminitis

LJ Friedman
 


--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

A Few thoughts.

Just by landing on this page and taking the advice given here,your problems  have already reduced by 50%. Things will get easier no matter what you have to spend.

No one likes to have the horses in terrible terrible pain. I know when I was in crisis I used banamine for a week even though the group didn’t want me to. But there was just too much pressure from Barn managers etc. and vets also   it wasn’t the end of the world.

We also know that icing the feet will not help in this area, assuming its laminitis caused by hi insulin etc.. If money is an issue as you mentioned, I would definitely try the Styrofoam and Duct tape. That works like a miracle.

I remember when everyone was telling me to euthanize jesse. A few months later with this groups help , he was galloping around the turn out area. So have faith, horses  are often resilient and if your horse is resilient you will be successful.


Re: New Member - Bullitt Laminitis

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

I'd like to add that most of us arrive here with basically the same poor trim, some worse than others, so to confirm what Lavinia said: this is incredibly common!  

If you think discussing this with your farrier will go badly, you could try doing some rasping in between visits based on the markups and if he/she comments on it just say you are just doing little tune-ups so he doesn't have to take off as much all at once when he comes every 6 or 8 weeks.  My rasp cost me 40$...the cost of 1 trim...(in Canada, its probably cheaper in the US) and I got 3 years use out of it for one horse and I haven't paid for a trim in 3 years...I have since passed it on to a friend and treated myself to a new one, but it's still in use and still does a decent job.  Just don't rasp sandy or dirty hooves and it will last you a long time.  I use the Bellota Top Sharp rasp.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Horse with Cushing's syndrome from Slovakia- new member

Sherry Morse
 

Hello Jan,





Re: Audi Update (Increase Pergolide?)

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Lindsay,

Re: the weight gain question.  I board my horses and we've had several new boarder horses come to the farm as skinny as Audi looks in the July pictures (or skinnier).  Usually by the time they've been with us 2 months they've put on enough weight that ribs are almost no longer visible and they've filled in on their butts.  I would guess the average weight gain in that time is about 50lbs but we're not good about putting a weight tape on the horses when they arrive and then on a regular basis to check. 

We do have one that came in on the first of this month who was super skinny - I should take some pictures of him now and put a tape on him just to see where he's at as he's gained some weight, but not a whole lot yet.  If anything most of the horses run to fat and not skinny once they've been with us a while.




Re: Donkey hoof realignment trim advice please

Philippa
 

Hi
I don't think so. He was possibly wearing tubbease hoof boots beforehand but they were taken off for the X-ray. Vet had him standing on a block of wood during the Xray. He also said that the X-rays were overexposed.
--
Philippa New Zealand 2020
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Philippa%20&%20Abraham  ;
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253721 ;


Horse with Cushing's syndrome from Slovakia- new member

Dekona s.r.o. - Ing. Ján Kalmánek
 

Hello everybody!

 

My name is Ján Kalmánek and I live in Slovakia. I own an Irish Cob that has been diagnosed with Cushing’s syndrome and insulin resistance (IR)

 

Let me provide some information about the horse:

Name: SWEET DEVIL

Born on: 1st May 2006

Weight: specified by calculation – approximately 605 kg, he is overweight

Accommodated: in a box overnight, in a paddock during the day

 

First symptoms of Cushing’s syndrome and IR

-        Laminitis in the front legs in January 2016

-        Application of diet, medicines, first IMMURENEGEN, then VITEX from Austria

-        Since January 2019 (when we first received information about the drug PRASCEND) we have been administering 0.5 of the pill a day

 

Other symptoms

-        A problem with his coat – his coat is always thick, as though lacking to shed the winter one; in higher temperatures he was sweating. Therefore, we cut it approximately every 5 weeks, and in winter every 8 weeks

-        His eyes are slightly watery, his left eye more

-        Slight fat pads on the neck

 

 

 

The horse’s food

 

-        Hay in the box, hay in the paddock

-        Little and insufficient (used up) grass in the paddock

-        KNOBLIZEM garlic Granules

-        A small hand-full of chaff

-        Now vitamin E + selenium (based on the blood analysis, he lacks selenium)

-        PUR  ITAN granules from HOVELER (food without grains) (150 g, 2 times a day)

 

The horse’s temperament – it is an Irish Cob, a peaceful even phlegmatic breed, sometimes his head bowed; his temperament is combined with the signs of Cushing’s syndrome – lethargy, it is not possible to well differentiate between Cushing’s syndrome signs and the temperament of the breed

 

Work with the horse

-        2-3 times a week

-        He is ridden  under saddle and in harness

 

The horse needs to lose weight, however in this summer period (28-32 °C) he has a problem with higher respiratory rate even when resting (30 – 50 times per minute). We do not know whether he can be strained when he is breathing so fast. In the morning, when the temperature is lower, his respiratory rate is about 30-35/min at rest.

Is it possible that the increased respiratory rate is caused by Cushing’s syndrome? Is it not necessary to increase the dosage of the medicine PRASCEND to 1 whole pill a day?

Thank you for your advice and answers.

Attached, please, find the ACTH values taken during checks.

 

 

 

 

Dates of the blood check samplings and ACTH values

 

16th November 2017 –                   189

23rd November 2018 –                   651

4th April 2019 –                                22.5

11th October 2019 –                       45.9

2nd April 2020 –                 68.1

24th June 2020 –                              52.6


--
Jan 
Slovakia, Europe
September 2020


Re: Corticoesteroids and ACTH testing (Second try)

Maria Duran
 

Hi Sherry, 

My fault sorry, I can see my question is a mess. Dr. K. says corticosteroids will lower ACTH in a normal horse but not in a PPID one, so I was guessing that this might be due to pituitary gland recieving already enough cortisol and then reducing ACTH production, but in a PPID horse this will not happen because it is the pars intermedia the one producing ACTH not the anterior lobe. If this is correct, my question is how much of the ACTH in the anterior lobe will be restricted and if this lower level will not lead to a TOTAL lower level of ACTH, but still not enough to lead to a misdiagnose of PPID.

I am sorry because it is hard for me to explain what I am trying to say and on top of it, my understanding maybe is wrong.


--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album
_._,_._,_


Re: Corticoesteroids and ACTH testing (Second try)

Maria Duran
 

Oh, that makes sense. Thank you. 
--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album
_._,_._,_


Re: stevia used as sweetener

Helen Connor
 

Hi Nina,

One of the moderators suggested baby food prunes to me a year ago. It has worked like magic. I don't use much. Enough to wet the compounded pergolide I use. I used to syringe it but have since discovered that Blessing likes finding the prune puree under her other supplements. I moisten a bed of hay fines (or chafe), put the prunes and pergo on top of that, and layer the other supplements (pellets and those mixed with CocoSoya) on top. She loves it.

--
Helen Connor and Blessing (IR/PPID)
Scappoose, OR
Member since May 2017
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Blessing
Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6847


Re: Audi Update (Increase Pergolide?)

lindsaykrauland@...
 

Thanks, Dr. Kellon.  I’ll try Audi on 3 mg.  Unfortunately, I don’t really have my vet on board with his treatment.  He wrote the prescription for pergolide, of course, but only as a “trial” and so far hasn’t agreed to write for anything over 1 mg.  (Since Audi’s ACTH was technically “in range” at his recheck, the office felt everything looked good.) My vet doesn’t seem well versed in PPID, but he does keep an open mind and hasn’t disagreed too strongly with me on anything yet.  If Audi seems to be doing well on 3 mg, I’ll test his ACTH after a month or so.  I think if we have a good ACTH + a horse who’s looking well, my vet is more likely to get on board with everything. 

I didn’t know that about EPM muscle wasting being asymmetrical.  That’s good to know, thanks! And I will consider Stabul 1.

Regarding blood work, I did have a serum chemistry run in late July.  Everything was within normal limits.  I have the report in my CH.  I have not done a CBC but can certainly have that run next time I do bloodwork.

I think the chem panel has ruled out organ failure?  

Regarding parasites, I dewormed Audi in late June.  He had had a clean fecal exam in April, but I went ahead and wormed him based on advice here in case any parasites were lurking that couldn’t be seen on the fecal.  As you can see from the photos, he didn’t gain any significant weight following the deworming. The dewormer used was EquiMax (ivermectin 1.87%/praziquantel 14.03%). Going forward, I plan to deworm him with the EquiMax twice a year, in addition to twice-yearly fecals and treatment as necessary.  Is this a sound strategy?

I honestly don’t think his issue is a dietary one, as I’ve changed up his diet multiple times based on advice here, and there has been no appreciable change in weight as a result.  We’ve added in beet pulp, increased beet pulp,  removed beet pulp, increased his TCTBC, added in Safe Starch, increased flax, added Tri-Amino, etc, and it just doesn’t seem to matter.  His weight has been pretty steady for months regardless of our dietary interventions.

That said, I separate the horses for mealtimes, so I know that Audi eats:
*5 lb TC Timothy Balance Cubes
*2 lb TC Golden Ground Flax
*2-5+ lb Safe Starch (I start with 2 lb and top off his bowl until he finally leaves it.  He goes through a 40lb bag in +/-5 days.)
*Supplements including 20g Tri Amino

The horses are together to eat their hay, so I can’t say for certain how much each consumes.  When I took the time to weight hay bags recently, the two horses consumed a total of 34.5 lb in twenty-four hours.  We have multiple hay nets set up, and I don’t see any significant competition between the horses for hay.  So far, I’ve been free-feeding hay in slow feeder nets, but my other gelding is getting too fat, so I’m going to start being more careful about limiting/weighing hay for him while giving Audi ample time to eat as much as he wants.

Our hay is low in protein, although we’re down to the last round bale and will hopefully get better quality hay going forward.  In the meanwhile, I’m trying to calculate dietary protein to ensure each horse gets an adequate amount.  I’m not sure how the Tri Amino factors into those calculations.  Does the Tri Amino “count” for a particular amount of protein?

Thanks, Sherry, for the thoughts!  I agree with your and Martha’s observations.  I’m curious, though— How much weight would you expect a horse to gain in a month?  I “feel” like Audi is gaining too slowly, but I honestly can’t say what an expected/healthy weight gain would be?!

--
Lindsay in TX 2020

Audi Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lindsay%20and%20Audi

Audi Photo Album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248156 


Re: Possible Weakness in Jaw Muscles

Joy V
 

This is excellent, thank you again Rhonda!  


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: Still Seeking Answers about where we're at

Anna Dolly
 

thank you, Dr. Kellon,
Mineral and amino acid nutrition as in deficiencies? 
We just started him on Farrier's Formula 2 days ago.
So I need to ask the farrier just to rasp his toes from above.
--
Anna Dolly
Keyser, WV
Sept. 2020
Babe's Case History
Babe's Photo Album

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