Date   

Re: Insulin still over 200

LJ Friedman
 

Remember, the next time you test for insulin at Cornell, have your vet write on the work order to please post the exact insulin number if it is over 200.
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Target's trim

KATHIE DORVAL <bokayarabians@...>
 

The glucose is 5.9mmol/L range is 3.6 - 5.7 the insulin is 214 pmol/L reference range is 28 - 390 and the ACTH is 3.77 pmol/L range 4.62 - 11.66 Aug to Oct. The comments were "mild inflammation with slight baosphilia. Known source? Any resp concerns? Stress hyperglycemia. Insulin is mid-range at this time- may want to consider dynamic testing depending on clinical concern. Acidosis- Sample? Iron- could reflect NSAIDS. ACTH is within reference." Does this help?
--
Kathie with Libby and Sweet P
Cobble Hill, BC, Canada
Aug 2018
Case Histories
Target Photos
Sweet P Photos
Addy Photos
Cherokee Photos


Re: Most Effective Timing on Administering Prascend Dose

LJ Friedman
 

which group suggests  2 doses per day?
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Free testing for PPID in Canada.

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Val,

You can do all the tests at the same time, but you might want to be sure of what payments you'll have to make for both the barn call and the fees for the insulin/glucose tests as those won't be paid for by BI.  I know a number of our members have taken advantage of this offer before so hopefully somebody can chime in and let you know if they've done all the tests at the same time and how that worked.




Re: Free testing for PPID in Canada.

Rhonda Turley
 

I signed up my PPID  horse for this Free program.  It is being run by Boehringer Ingelheim and has been running on Facebook.  But it is only for the actual test cost and not associated tests like other vet fees or other tests. This is the answer I got from them:"Sorry Rhonda, this program is designed to identify new cases of PPID. Please contact your veterinarian directly if you have concerns about your horse’s health."

 

--
Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020
Scooter and Rhonda     


Thyro-L temporary - add Equioxx?

Shevawn Romine
 

Cassie was prescribed Thyro-L for weight loss by vet (after muzzling ,   change in hay,   tested hay,   reduced hay did not result in much weight loss or reduction in fat pads.    It did reduce weight a bit.    On a recent vet visit,   they advised to stay on it and add Equioxx for inflammation and rotation in the feet.  Two questions from this,   I just read very good vet industry paper on managing laminitis that stated that Thryo-L should only be temporary,  then stopped.   But it didn't say why.   Is there harm,   as I just assumed if it helped keep weight down then could be forever.    (No, thyroid test didn't test low).     Also,   I didn't start equioxx as had seen it recommended for chronic foot soreness.   
--
Cassie and Shevawn
03/2015   Gordon, TX
CH folder:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Shevawn%20and%20Cassie 
Photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=76832


Re: Insulin still over 200

Jennifer Murphy
 

I just spoke with my vet and she is ready to discuss switching to Invokana.  Dr. Kellon, you had emailed the information to her but she was skeptical of using it for some reason.  She had wanted to go with Velagliflozin instead, but I read as much as I could find about that on this site and it doesn't seem like it's the best option.  We also tried to get enough blood drawn to send to both testing labs the last two times, but getting blood from this little mule is an absolute nightmare.  We're lucky if we can draw enough for one lab sample, and it usually takes two or three needles and a dozen tries to find the vein.  These mules know just how to tighten their neck muscles to make it an extreme challenge!

I'll get some body shots today if I can, and we're actually scheduled to do updated radiographs in a few weeks.  There is a differing opinion between the two vets as to whether he is suffering from contracted tendons.  The specialist vet wants to do a tenotomy on both front legs, and my regular vet is absolutely opposed.

So if we go the Invokana route, can I wait to do the blood panels the same day as the radiographs, or is time of the essence in this case?  I don't want to change the date for radiographs as it coordinates with my next farrier appointment, so she can trim according to the radiographs as they're taken.  We've done this before and it's very helpful for the farrier.

--
Jennifer in NH
2020

CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea

Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Re: Target's trim

 

Hi Kathie,
I wrote this last night but somehow it didn’t get sent.  I wanted to add that I’ve read that hoof testing doesn’t always tell the whole story.  It’s hard to get enough pressure to equal the weight of the horse standing on that foot and it’s easier to locate sensitivity in the toe than in the heel, the reason I asked about more Xrays, if possible.

I had a similar concern about the bloodwork as Helen, Kathie.  Could you photograph the blood results and post them in your photo album?  I know the CH has been a bugaboo but haven’t you had better luck with the photos?  Or, if you use a photo sharing site, you could post a link to it here.  Are you using the same device to communicate with us here that you used when attempting to post a case history?  

Without knowing the lab ranges for the lab your vet used, it’s difficult to interpret them.  It’s also important to know whether or not she was fasted.
It sounds like many things are going quite well.  Have you invested in any xrays recently?  
--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Thymic protein for itching?

Cindy Giovanetti
 

If one were to try this, would it make any sense to try to get the prescription product rather than an over-the-counter supplement from the health food store?

Cindy


--
Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas
On ECIR protocol since 2/19
https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/
History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125


Re: Raleigh - new PPID diagnosis and IR??

Dana Wicher
 

Thanks for the good reminder, Martha.  :) At one point, all three of mine were on the CTP, but I took the two "oldies" off it when I put them on the TC Senior.  I am learning the error of my ways and will get everyone back on an appropriate diet. 

FWIW, Raleigh did not eat much hay last night and only ate a few bites of breakfast, so I have stopped the Prascend for a few days and will ease him back onto it per the information that Bonnie shared.
--
Dana Wicher
Atlanta, GA  
Joined July 2020
Raleigh Case History


Re: Raleigh - new PPID diagnosis and IR??

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Don't worry, bashing of anyone--whether vets, trimmers, other members, etc--is not allowed in this group, nor is naming of vets, trimmers or other professionals unless you have their permission to do so.

Our vets are critical members of our horse care team and should always be treated with respect.  But you can still question them and ask for more/better next time.  That's one way they learn, too.  The most important thing though is to maintain a respectful working relationship with them, and how to manage that is between you and your vet.  :)

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Most Effective Timing on Administering Prascend Dose

nobigdeal@...
 

Thanks!  Another group says to give the dose twice daily.  I was wondering if there was information comparing the effectiveness of each approach.
--
Jessica USA 2020


Re: Question on bloodwork to be pulled tomorrow

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

CORRECTION:  That should have been average fasting insulin, not glucose.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Uckele Ubalance IR, Glycocemic eq and Ubalance Foundation

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Glycocemic EQ is a "starter" mineral supplement with the minerals most frequently deficient - phosphorus, magnesium, copper, zinc, selenium, iodine plus Jiaogulan and other ingredients to support insulin sensitivity and hoof comfort. U Balance Foundation is a high potency multi vitamin and mineral formulated for high iron situations/iron overload. I wouldn't normally feed both but if you have a hay analysis can advise you more specifically. U Balance IR has  magnesium, chromium, biotin with adaptogens and antioxidants.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Feed recommendations please

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

We generally don't recommend supplemental feeding of oil, at least not in large amounts as it affects microorganisms in the bowel and fiber digestion, and it can worsen insulin resistance.  Plus, it adds WAY more Omega-6 fatty acids to their diet (unless you can supplement with flax oil, which is more expensive), which have an oxidizing effect in the body.  Fat is, however, efficiently absorbed as fat in the body so it can be effective for weight gain as fat, not muscle.  I would consider up to a 1/2 cup 2x a day with his feed.  Brubacher harness sells 4L jugs cattle-grade flax oil online for a more reasonable price than the grocery store, but no idea what the quality is.

Check out this post from Dr Kellon on another option increase calories and digestive efficiency in an underweight PPID horse:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/251439
I would keep up with your hay and balancer, stop beet pulp and feed him 5 lbs/day TC Safe Starch Forage, increase the ground flax to 2 lbs/day. Increase ODTB cubes to 4 lbs/day. 
As you can see, there are other sources of calories that can help him gain weight.  Also note that if he has PPID, getting him on pergolide will help with weight gain as one of the signs of PPID is unexplained weight loss.

Can you keep all the horses in a bit longer to nap while he works on his extra feed?  I'm sure he doesn't want to be stalled while the rest are out having fun!  I'm just thinking if you are set up for it you could keep them in all evening to given him time to eat, take a break, and eat again from his buffet (or whenever you are home) and just turn them all out before you go to bed?

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: How frequently can we give Ivermectin?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

  You can but it's not likely to help.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Thymic protein for itching?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The thymus is the master gland of the immune system which establishes populations of B and T cells, regulates recognition of " self " to prevent autoimmune diseases. It is most active in children, shrinks considerably with age. There are actually several studies showing  thymic extracfts, like the purified protein extract Thymomodulin, do indeed increase levels of T cells  as well as activity of the primitive immune system.  Rationale is you will stimulate production of antibodies that do not cause allergy [IgE is the antibody of allergy and is different from IgA, IgG or IgM]. There is one report on children with food allergies, but they were also on an elimination diet. It also has been shown to moderate IgE levels and allergic lung disease.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=thymomodulin+allergy&size=100

Based on human dosages, https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1009/thymus-extract , a horse would need 3000 mg/day.  The PP product mentioned has less than 1 mg.

I've never used them because of concern about antibodies developing to foreign proteins but have never seen problems related to that mentioned.

More articles if you are interested:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=%22thymic+extracts%22&size=100
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Free testing for PPID in Canada.

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Judy, do you know where the free ACTH is done?  I also need insulin and glucose run, too, but if I have to pay for them as stand-alone tests (rather than as part of the PPID package at U Guelph), plus pay for overnight shipping of a second sample to another lab I'm not sure I'd be saving much money to make it worth the extra effort.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Target's trim

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Kathie, it's really important that you provide the units AND lab reference/normal ranges for her bloodwork in your post (if not your case history) as that makes a massive difference interpreting your numbers.  If those are SI units then everything appears to fall within the "normal" ranges that U Guelph reports.  But we don't know what units True North provides their data in as they are a local lab; we also don't know what their "normal" range is, and it could be different from U Guelph if they use a different assay.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


hay analysis and balancing minerals

JoAnne Goblet
 

If I submit a hay analysis does someone in the group then let me know what I need to add to his diet in terms of
vitamins and minerals to balance it?
Thank you
--
JoAnne G in PA 2020

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