Date   

Re: Help! Short term pain management

Jeanne Q
 


Re: Vet visit and treats?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

She probably goes at least 8 hours without eating before her morning feed. That results in exaggerated insulin responses to the morning meal and insulin will stay up for about 4 hours. The 6:00 AM feeding time the day of testing is correct.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Milk Thistle and Sam E

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Terri,

Both are safe.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: How Long Does the Veil Last?

Candice Piraino
 
Edited

HI Allison,

I am sorry your guy is experiencing the pergolide veil! It is so hard to watch them go off their feed and can be frustrating for us as their caretakers to figure out how best to help them through it!

Every horse is different and some horses can experience the veil for long periods of time. 

I would recommend to consider a re-start. Do not give Prascend until he begins to eat again, which I am hoping would be soon. Then once he is eating, begin the titer at .25 and keep him aunthood until he is eating well for several days. I would encourage you to invest in a bottle of APF, which has helped many horses through the veil. Then once you feel he has been on his food and doing well, increase and repeat! Do not rush to get to the 1mg. You will eventually get there. Give him some time to adjust.

Here is a link on where to source APF:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/APF/APF%20Sources.pdf

--

~ Candice P

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Candice%20and%20Shark

Shark's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71507 

Barefoot Trimmer @ www.arkhavenfarm.com

 


Re: Feed recommendations please

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Allison,

There are no VT specialties in Oncology. You need to ask for references to prove those claims because as far as I know the truth is exactly the opposite. Antioxidants and omega-3 fatty acids are used to both prevent and treat SCC. Antioxidants can interfere with some forms of chemotherapy but that's not an issue here.

Older horses may have teeth that look OK but still be unable to chew hay properly because of a change in the dental angles. Feed him as  much soaked food per day as you can get into him, and replace that oil with 1 to 1.5 lbs of ground flax which is MUCH better for him and also contains prebiotic fiber.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Laminitis in Max

Candice Piraino
 

HI Bethany! So glad you made your way over to ECIR! 

Sherry and Lavinia have set you in the right direction so far. I know it can be a lot of information and maybe overwhelming. So just let us know if you have any questions, concerns or issues with what you have received so far. 

Lavinia is VERY experienced with this and has been at this for awhile. I concur with her advice 100%!

This gelding is very lucky to have you!
--

~ Candice P

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Candice%20and%20Shark

Shark's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71507 

Barefoot Trimmer @ www.arkhavenfarm.com

 


Re: Free testing for PPID in Canada.

Judy and Bugsy
 

I found this link from 2019 and last year it was done at Guelph 

https://www.equineguelph.ca/news/index.php?content=631


Re: fish oil v spirulina (algea)

Lorna Cane
 

For fish oil and spirulina, Gabriela?
Or....?

If you read back in this thread you'll see the group's thoughts on fish oil. But I'm not sure that's what you mean.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Free testing for PPID in Canada.

Judy and Bugsy
 

Hi Val

i thought I read somewhere on the  Boehringer site that the tests are being done 
At Guelph - but I’m not positive - I was doing a lot of Google searching that day. Boehringer Contacted my vet shortly after I filled  in the questionnaire and my vet said he set up an account through them and will get the testing done through them - whatever that means?  Sorry not much help about that but I’m thinking a call to 

Boehringer would sort it out. 

 

Judy and Bugsy

Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

Feb. 25, 2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Judy%20and%20Bugsy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=243358

 




Re: fish oil v spirulina (algea)

Gabriela Quinn
 

where are the ECIR protocols please
--
Gabriela Rodriguez Quinn
Kennebunk Maine
joined fb group June 2020


Re: New Member - Horse Just Diagnosed with PPID

Nancy Kitchen
 

Lida
I am just a member of the ECIR but I wanted to tell you to try not get discouraged.  We have all run thru those emotions and placed blame on ourselves for missing the signs. 
This group is amazing, their knowledge and dedication is never ending.  My horse is still with me today because of this group.  Read all you can, but listen to what these folks jave to say to you because they know.  And are willing to share their knowledge for free.  My vet has been on board every step and has seen the improvement in my horse first hand.  
--
Nancy K
Smoke and Tucky
November 2018, Southeast, MA

Smoke Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Smoke
Smoke Photo Album:    https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=94122
Tucky Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Tuck 
Tucky Photo Album:


How Long Does the Veil Last?

Allison
 

I have been slowly increasing the Prascend every 4 days. Started at 0.25 we are currently on 0.5. I do not have APF. His appetite is decreased, didnt finish his supper even with 2 hours to eat it, and yesterday when I rode, he was SO. LETHARGIC. Managed to get some cantering in but he was completely out of gas. How long does this last?

On another note, hes now got a rather large ventral edema on his belly, from his sheath forward :( and it doesnt go away with exercise. A new vet is coming tomorrow to take a biopsy for the SCC. 
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray


Re: New Member - Horse Just Diagnosed with PPID

Tracy
 

Hi Lida -
Just another member here.  My gelding was dx PPID around this time last year and his ACTH was only about half as high as Doc's.  My vet had me start him at half a Prascend for (I think) about two weeks then up to 1 pill a day.
I had the APF that I started a few days before but Salsa didn't love the taste of it - so getting that in him was hit or miss - mainly miss.  Salsa seemed to handle the med well overall but I did notice some lack of appetite (though not for hay). September 2019 we also finally had a barn built so I could get more hay and test it and start balancing his minerals to the hay.  Salsa had a lot going on - new med, new supps, new 'home'.  Salsa's lack of appetite for his feed/supps finally eased and went back to normal and was never 'extreme' in his 'veil' type reaction - just a little off. 
I don't defend drug companies and I like to 'root cause' and do things AS naturally as possible when I can - but PPID needs pergolide/Prascend and I'm glad it's there to help our horses.  I WISH I'd had Salsa tested long before we did because looking back over the years - there were seasonal signs that at the time I didn't pick up on (or explained away - ugh).  We live and learn.  I understand your concern with the med - I was right there with you - but it sure has Salsa feeling better!

Good luck with Doc - keep us posted!

--
Tracy and Salsa (1999 model year Paso Fino)
Middle TN USA, September 2019
Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tracy%20and%20Salsa
Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95827


Re: New Member - Horse Just Diagnosed with PPID

Lida
 

I think I am going through the stages of grief. I'm working through getting out of denial and depression over this recent diagnosis and moving on to acceptance... I've owned this horse for 20 years. We have been through a LOT together! Including moving from North Carolina to Maine and now Indiana. Miles and miles of trails, herding cows, horse shows, trail competitions, and more. I'm sure I'm not the first one who needed a little moral support to get to the acceptance stage.

AND I am probably a little more gun shy than most about taking pharmaceuticals. I had a life changing event that took me 2 years to recover from as a result of taking a medication. If it wasn't for the abscesses, I would not even know that something was wrong with my horse outside of signs of natural aging. At the age of 25, he seems to have more energy and go than horses half his age.

I know the percentages are low, but a big one for me is lethargy and behavior change. To me these are signs that a horse is not feeling well. He is a horse with a lot of energy and personality and I am afraid of losing that. There are also a lot of other not so pleasant side effects listed below. Again, I know the percentages are low and that there is a risk with any pharmaceutical.

However, that said, I do think the abscesses are telling me he needs to be treated. They obviously are not a good sign and are painful. So we definitely want to avoid more of those and the other side effects of PPID like laminitis which I know is awful.

Table 2 Summary of the most common adverse reactions(N=122) 

Clinical Sign

# Cases

Cases (%)

Decreased appetite

40

32.8

Lameness

22

18.0

Diarrhea/Loose stool

12

9.8

Colic

12

9.8

Lethargy

12

9.8

Abnormal Weight Loss

11

9.0

Laminitis*

10

8.2

Heart murmur

10

8.2

Death

8

6.6

Tooth disorder

8

6.6

Skin abscess

7

5.7

Musculoskeletal pain

6

4.9

Behavior change

6

4.9

https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/lookup.cfm?setid=455e5d97-f639-472b-b93b-88b9174a0310

--
Lida
Indiana
2020
Case: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lida%20and%20Doc


Re: TRH Stimulation Results

emma@...
 

Thanks for your replies.  I've posted latest photos of his feet about 10 days after the latest trim.  Trimmer said she couldn't take much off this time.  Struggling to keep him comfortable. Concerned about the very deep grooves towards the back of the frog so she said we were going to try peripheral loading on the hoof wall and to use boots and pads.

I am currently using the Easycare black pads. He walks the same in boots with pads or without, so softer pads might help.

I have considered getting my hay tested but unfortunately it is not a consistent supply.  When he first had lami, I soaked his hay on recommendation of the vet.  I did this for maybe 3 months and then stopped soaking.  There was no difference when I stopped soaking the hay and his tests have been taken when he has been on hay so I don't think the hay would be an issue.  He is on one the "intelligent" mineral mixes, Pro Laminae from Progressive Earth so he should have a good balance of minerals.

Lyme's Disease is perhaps something to consider as we are in tick country.

Thanks for your ideas, will see what I can do.

--
Emma M in East Sussex, UK 2020
Case History for Tom: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Emma and Tom
Photo Album for Tom: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249458


Re: Harley

Caroline
 

Discomfort can cause lethargy.   My pony was very slow but after investigation he was found to be sound but bone cysts were evident in his stifles.  The vet recommended supplementation rather than surgery and ta-da he is much livelier.  I'm not suggesting that is your horses' problem but discomfort somewhere might be
--
Caroline
Spalding, Lincolnshire, UK
September 2019
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Caroline%20and%20Evan
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=231916


Re: TRH Stimulation Results

emma@...
 

Sorry I copy and pasted and it overwrote the case history and photo album
--
Emma M in East Sussex, UK 2020
Case History for Tom: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Emma and Tom
Photo Album for Tom: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249458


Milk Thistle and Sam E

TERRI JENNINGS
 

My vet has recommended milk thistle and Sam E for Finn due to some abnormal liver values in his bloodwork. I read contradictory info on both of these supplements in the files. Can someone please clarify if they would be safe for Finn (PPID, IR) 
Thanks,
--
Terri Jennings with Teeny, Finn and Elliott
Arcata, CA
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Terri%20and%20Teeny
Joined 2019


Drop in insulin after starting invokana

TERRI JENNINGS
 

Hello,
We have our first insulin results 1month after starting invokana. Finn’s insulin dropped from 152 to 103. Unfortunately his ACTH went up from 25.4 to 35.8. I’m guessing once we get his ACTH lowered his insulin will be lower as well.   I was disappointed when I got the results but I know I need to focus on how Finn is feeling. It’s remarkable how well he’s doing. He was sound on pavement today at the vet’s office. 

I’m just curious if anyone using invokana has seen insulin drop more over longer periods of time.  

Thanks
--
Terri Jennings with Teeny, Finn and Elliott
Arcata, CA
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Terri%20and%20Teeny
Joined 2019


Re: Help! Short term pain management

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Sorry Jeanne, I don't have any advice.  Just boosting your post. 

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   

29801 - 29820 of 282124