Date   

Re: Bullitt has PPID - How to start meds?

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Yes, both IR and PPID.  At least now you know what you are dealing with.  We have lots of members managing both conditions in their horses.

That high insulin is likely partly driven by the PPID, but the diet will need to be tightened up.  I would put him on the emergency diet: soaked hay, salt, vit E and ground flax, with absolutely nothing else for now.  Are you certain he is not getting any green things in his dry lot?  Absolutely no weeds or grass.  Is his hay still being soaked?  Your "2nd 4232169" is the lowest ESC and starch so I would feed him that exclusively (keep in mind that the ESC and starch could be a bit higher or lower in any of your 3 hays because of the analysis type), and soaked for 1 hr.   Are all the Purina products out of his diet?

The Smartpak Smart Essentials doesn't look too bad to me, just a little skimpy on some minerals.  If having your hay analyzed for the trace minerals iron, copper, zinc and manganese, then having a balancer help you determine the best supplementation program for your specific hay is out of the question right now, then the Smartpak is not a bad idea.  I don't like the alfalfa base to it as some IR horses are sensitive to alfalfa, but in such small amounts it might not make much difference.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Blood Chemistry Changes #poll-notice

 

Are we reporting any elevated result ever, even if normal now? 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos 


Re: How Long Does the Veil Last?

Allison
 

Also Sherry!! Did you friend give you any information regarding dosage, mixture of the oil with a carrier oil, ratio of FEO to carrier, etc?? Did she receive any input from someone to get her started? I sent a request for info from the Alternative Cancer Treatment website. I'm trying to sort through that research page (which frankly, I struggle with since I'm not a science-y girl LOL). 
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Photo Album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=254641


Re: urgent Test results back for Rio and says not IR

hdavis
 

Ok things just got weirder. I am elated Rio’s insulin is so low but I now received Storm’s insulin back and it is 199pmol/L.  Ref range is >300.  Last time I tested Rio she was over 200 and now down to under 60.

here are all of Storm’s results

ACTH 3 
glucose - 4.8
Insulin - 

Storms calculator info

G/I - 3.0
RISQI - 0.19
MIRG - 12
G/I - uncompensated IR
RISQI - Poorly compensated 
MIRG - High insulin responder 

Dr. Kellon can you resend maybe?


--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa Case History
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

 Photos

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0  .


Storm

Case History



photos

 
 

 




Re: Tarson PPID or EMS or both?

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Karla, this is the link to your folder:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/KarlaTarson

Can you add it to your signature please?  Instructions:

1) Go to this link to amend your auto-signature: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/editsub

2) Copy and paste the link to your Case History and/or photo album below your name.

NOTE: If/when you are adding a link to your Case History or photos, make sure you make it "live". Adding a space after your link or hitting enter on your keyboard will turn it blue.

3) Make sure you check the 2 boxes saying "Use Signature for Web Posting" and "Use Signature for Email Posting”.

4) IMPORTANT: Scroll to the bottom and hit SAVE!

Now you need to upload your Case History!  Navigate to it by clicking on the link to it at the top of this message, and once inside your folder you will see a blue "+ New" button at the top.  Click on it and select "Upload File".  Then follow the prompts to find your Case History file on your device and upload it.

Thanks!

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: How Long Does the Veil Last?

Allison
 

wow awesome pics Sherry thank you! Did you look at my pics? I'm actually a bit jealous (if that even makes sense) of your friend's SCC location as at least it's easily accessible for cleaning. My gelding has been most patient with me shoving my hand up inside there on the daily, but I still worry that I'm not getting it clean enough.

Off to check out those links you sent about the frankincense...
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Photo Album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=254641


Test results back for Rio and says not IR

hdavis
 

Hello,

I finally got my insulin results back for Rio and plugged the results into the calculator and got some interesting results.

insulin - 58 pmol/L. Reference range <300

glucose - 5.1 mmol/L ref range 3.7-6.7

calculator results 
RISQI Ratio - 0.34
MIRG ratio  - 4.5
G/I - not IR
RISQI - isn’t IR
MIRG - blank

I am happy her insulin is so low but is this a need to be concerned... has she gone the other way or anything to be concerned about!  Feedback please :). Thanks in advance!

I will update her case history.

--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa Case History
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

 Photos

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0  .


Storm

Case History



photos

 
 

 




Re: New laminitis

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Margaret,

Given the time of year her laminitis developed, I would also add a baseline ACTH test to your bloodwork.   Fall laminitis is often due to Cushings Disease, or PPID.  The glucose is not necessary, but it provides information on: whether the equine is diabetic (vs just IR), a little bit better resolution on an IR diagnosis than just insulin alone because it allows us to calculate the modified insulin-to-glucose ratio (MIRG), and because glucose is very sensitive to poor sample handling if it is abnormally low it can be a sign that the blood sample was compromised (and therefore the insulin and ACTH values are reported as lower than they actually are).

I personally always test the baseline (non-fasted) ACTH, insulin and glucose 2x a year with my horse.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Bullitt has PPID - How to start meds?

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Sarah,

Getting his PPID under control as well as the IR will go a long way to helping him feel better.  As Dr. Kellon and Bonnie have already mentioned - use the APF to start and then add the Prascend in.  Remember that the correct dosage of Prascend is not based on the size or weight of the horse but what dose controls the ACTH.  With a level of 211 I would expect Bullitt will need to be on 1mg a day at least, but you can start him on a 1/4 of a tab (or an 1/8 and titrate up to 1/4) and then retest after 3 weeks at the target dose to see if that dose needs to be increased.  How much it would then need to be increased will be based on what his ACTH level when retested.

I would strongly recommend NOT following your vets advice and giving him a 1/4 tab every other day because that's basically asking him to restart the dose every other day.  For Prascend to be effective it needs to be given in a single dose every 24 hours. 



Re: How Long Does the Veil Last?

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Allison,


JoJo actually dropped for me this morning which he hasn't done before so I was able to get some - hopefully - good pictures to upload.  His tumor is in the sheath itself, I think I mentioned that. Pics: https://photos.app.goo.gl/aQico9MUxbnhqkAP8 should work.  If it doesn't just let me know.



Re: supplements from uckele

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Devil's Claw Plus has Yucca, which you shouldn't use. Try the Hemp Joint, which is Hemp and Devil's Claw. Good price and you can use the WELCOMEUHN coupon for 10% off on a first order or ECIR for 5% if you have ordered before.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: How Long Does the Veil Last?

Allison
 

Hi Dr. Kellon, I did send an email this weekend. Waiting for a response.

Thanks!
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Photo Album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=254641


Re: How Long Does the Veil Last?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I would call the manufacturer directly. www.auburnlabs.com.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Bullitt has PPID - How to start meds?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Sarah,

First, not all horses have dire side effects and side effects tend to be short-lived anyway. Your vet may be thinking it would be too difficult to accurate split the pill into eighths.  One option you could discuss is dissolving the 1/4 pill into water in a small syringe then giving half of that daily. Keep it cool between uses. There shouldn't be an loss of potency over 24 hours.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Blood Chemistry Changes #poll-notice

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Please check any of the answers below which apply to changes in your PPID and/or EMS horse's blood chemistry panel.

Results

See Who Responded


Re: How Long Does the Veil Last?

Allison
 

Teresa, yes, I too cannot find the APF in Ontario or Canada. Frustrating. I WISH my guy wasn't lethargic, but I'm starting to wonder if it isn't the infection that's doing it to him. He's always been a bit of a loveable nut and to see him so depressed is frankly quite awful.

Sherry, can you please find out more about the frankincense for me? Specifics? Thank you so much.
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Photo Album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=254641


Re: Bullitt has PPID - How to start meds?

 

Hi Sarah,
I wanted to give you a link to a good document about pergolide. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/3%20Cushings%20Disease%20-%20PPID/Cushings%20Disease%20Treatments/Pergolide/Pergolide%20101.pdf

I recommend that you purchase the APF adaptogen mentioned in the "Side Effects" paragraph near the bottom of the document. Here is a link with more info about APF. 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/APF/Adaptogens.pdf
I had a horse that was diagnosed with Cushings/PPID. I followed the advise given to me by members of this group. I began giving my horse APF four days before he was started on pergolide. His initial dose was a 1/4 of his full dose for 4 days then 1/2 dose for 4 days then full dose after that. He never experienced the depression, loss of appetite and lethargy that is called the VEIL.In fact he took the pergolide so well that I was able to speed up the dose increases.

How you will manage splitting a tiny dose down even further? That won't be easy. I would suggest putting the pergolide (Prascend) into a treat like a prune or something else that is soft. Some people manage to core out a piece of carrot to put the medication into. 

Use our files and the search box/button here on the main page and in our files. You can scroll thru the files categories or do a search on a word/topic

Best of luck for your mini.
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Group Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: How Long Does the Veil Last?

tosborne@...
 

I should add that I am unable to find a retailer carrying APF in Ontario or Canada.  I even tried Amazon and while they show a listing for it, it says no longer available
--
Teresa O in Ontario, Canada 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Teresa%20and%20Snickers


Re: How Long Does the Veil Last?

tosborne@...
 

I also have a horse going through the veil, at least we think that is what is happening.  He started 1/2 tablet Prascend on Sept 29th.  He had been eating Mad Barn AminoTrace without any hesitation for approximately 12 days prior to starting the Prascend.  On Sept 30th, my barn manager reported that he took the carrot with his Prascend quite eagerly, but only ate about 10 mouthfuls of his beetpulp with his supplements.  Oct 1st, refused beet pulp completely.  Oct 2-4th, we've been trying different combinations of soak Timothy cubes, beet pulp - no matter what we try, he will not eat more than 5-10 mouthfuls.  We removed all supplements because he acted as though he didn't like the smell of his feed.  Still no difference.  However, he is still eating his hay very well.  His weight is good, so as long as he is eating hay and drinking water, I'm not going to panic - but he does have high iron in his blood test and I do have to address that with supplements soon.  What makes me wonder if this is the fact that he is not at all lethargic, if anything he is stupidly energetic.  So much so that yesterday he was tearing around, rearing and acting the gawk and injured his arthritic knee.
--
Teresa O in Ontario, Canada 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Teresa%20and%20Snickers


Bullitt has PPID - How to start meds?

Sarah Orlofske
 

Hello All, 

Bullitt's blood work is back and it isn't what we were hoping for. It looks like both IR and PPID? If someone could double check me on that I would appreciate it. The original records from the vet are uploaded to case history. 

I am very concerned about how to start the Prascend that won't cause side effects such as the "veil" I have read about on this group. Bullitt is a mini and vet has prescribed 1/4 tab for total dose and to start 1/4 tab every other day for a week. But this seems like a lot compared to how gradual some of the members of this group are starting for a full size horse. I am just reaching out to others with small horses to find recommendations for how to give this is the best way possible. We have ordered APF but it won't get here until Thursday. 

As always any help would be greatly appreciated. 
Thank you. 

--
Sarah O. 
Rudolph, WI
2020

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