Date   

testing a symptom free ppid horse

LJ Friedman
 

Is it correct to say that if the funds permit, a PPO the horse should be tested for ACTH on January and July each year? Are those the correct months? Thanks
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Soaking Hay in the Winter

Knyoung2008@...
 

I have an IR boy (Mule) and looking for advice on soaking hay this winter. I would also like help in how much to feed him. He's about 950 lbs and you can see his ribs. Vet seems to think he is fine.  He's on Insulin Wise, Thylo-L and a hoof supplement and on a dry lot.  Four cups of grain (2 am and 2 pm of Purina Enriched) each day. We just had to put him in shoes this week. 
--
Thank you and take care
Kim Young

Midwest USA
Joined Oct 2020


Re: from cabergoline back to CP

LJ Friedman
 

jesses monthly cost on cabergoline at 2.5 ml every 10 days is $412.50 per month.   too much to spend in this covid economy.  
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Trimmer coming on Wednesday

 

Judy,
I looked at Bugsy's case history folder. I saw a hay test for hay from last year. Do you have a hay test you can post for this year? Just curious, I like to look at members hay tests.
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Group Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Trimmer coming on Wednesday

Judy and Bugsy
 

Bugsy continues to do very well.  We have switched to this year's new hay (no more soaking!) and new custom mineral blend.  I have uploaded Bugsy's pre-trim pictures and am hoping Lavinia has a chance to do mark ups. 
--

 

Judy and Bugsy

Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

Feb. 25, 2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Judy%20and%20Bugsy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=243358

 




Re: rechecking ACTH during seasonal rise- Dolly symptomatic

Trisha DePietro
 

yes- I stopped the smartpak  this past year....I will update her history. Thanks. Trish
--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Trisha%20and%20Dolly%20-%20Hope
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder


Re: rechecking ACTH during seasonal rise- Dolly symptomatic

 

Do the blood tests for sure. I didn't see any blood test results for 2020 in Dolly's case history. The seasonal rise does increase ACTH levels and it typically insulin levels rise along with the ACTH rise. Do you have current hay test results that you can add to Dolly's case history folder? It would be helpful for our moderators and members if you could get Dolly's case history updated. 

I used to use a SmartPak supplement in the past and found it had small amounts of alfalfa in it. I learned that my IR/PPID gelding was sensitive to alfalfa in even small amounts.
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Group Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: Is there a link between analgesics and elevated glucose or ACTH levels?

Mary Ann
 

Thank you for the info Lorna Cane. I will definitely look into this.

--
Mary Ann & Rosie - Nova Scotia, Canada - Joined August 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=252134
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mary%20Ann%20and%20Rosie


rechecking ACTH during seasonal rise- Dolly symptomatic

Trisha DePietro
 

So, Dolly has been managing herself well these past few months. In July, I increased her prascend from 1.5 tablets to 2.0, thinking that she might need a little additional coverage during the seasonal rise. She did fine with the increase up until Saturday when I noticed she was a little stiff and appeared to be rocking back slightly on her hinds, no bounding pulses, left foot slightly warmer compared to right, hinds equal and normal temps.... So, I started soaking her hay right away. I have a call out to the vet to run bloodwork, specifically ACTH, insulin, glucose. She seems  more comfortable after soaking all of her hay for 2 days.  Should I be checking any other bloodwork at this time? Thanks.

--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Trisha%20and%20Dolly%20-%20Hope
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder


Re: Flame labs & balancer question

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Keep in mind that this is very generalized advice that can not take in to account appropriate mineral ratios, and might not be suitable for your hay.  But if you are adding a decent balancer you are miles ahead of most horse owners IMO.

I would look for a balancer with minimal iron and manganese, no more than 2mg (preferably 1 mg) selenium, and decent copper (~300 ppm) and zinc (500+ ppm) contents.  You won't know if it's a good fit but at least you can minimize the usual excesses and increase the usual deficiencies.  1 mg selenium added to whatever is in your hay is likely to still be safe and meet the minimum requirement.  I'm assuming you meant magnesium in your first post (not manganese?) because it is important for IR horses.  You won't know if your horse needs more magnesium without a hay analysis because it's not as likely to be glaringly deficient in hay like copper and zinc.  Most balancers add enough magnesium that it's not likely to be outright deficient, unless the calcium in the hay is really high (it probably isn't overly high in grass hay).

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Urgent advice please. Cadet's new lab values are much worse.

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

The really high glucose out of nowhere makes me think there was a problem on the lab end so I'm glad they will run a new sample for you!

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: High ACTH no symptoms

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Brenda,

I don't see your new results in Stormy's Case History, but looking at the previous testing I would say we generally don't recommend a TRH stim test in the seasonal rise because we have no knowledge of what the stim result should be for a diagnosis.  So not sure if the post-stim is actualky diagnostic, although it was awfully high.  His baseline was a smidge above normal but that was in August when the seasonal rise is underway so that on its own is not concerning.  Was Stormy the one with the mild symptoms and baseline ACTH of 176 more recently?  That higher baseline ACTH during seasonal rise is normally considered a positive for early PPID here.

I also learned here that PPID can flare up in some horses around the spring equinox, or March 21, which is interesting given that Stormy had elevated ACTH then (or did you transcribe the 107 glucose number there by accident?) plus a laminitis event on Mar 2.

As Martha said, ACTH does not tell the whole story.  There are other hormones that would be a better indicator of PPID that we should be testing for but do not/cannot at this time.
when you consider that of all the hormones put out by the pituitary in PPID, ACTH is by far at the lowest concentration. We're way past the time to switch to testing POMCs across the board or alpha-MSH instead.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/215025

I think I personally would not treat now (assuming they have no signs that have worsened in the autumn) and the seasonal rise is on the down swing.   But I would be closely watching ACTH and insulin in the spring and again next fall, as well as possible signs of PPID, and if you do another TRH stim test it should be between December and June.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Equinity

 

Thank you Dr. Kellon.  May I quote you in my article on Equinety that will post on LayzD Equine Services facebook page? 

I am writing about one of our rescue horses rehabilitation plan I designed using my education from your classes.  It discusses the levels of amino acids he received vs the levels in this product that people have recommended on my post about him.  I also discuss his other nutritional supplements, not just amino acids. 

My page says I am an Equine Nutritional Consultant and provide nutritional rehabilitation services and yet that are those who feel the need to give advice on great products and magic bullets.  Yes, Equinety was called a magic bullet on my post.  Geesh.  The only up side is it gives me a chance at factual rebuttal to these posts that may help educate my followers.  
--
Debora, Montana 

 

Joined 2/7/12

CIR 0113/0615, NRC+1112,  NAT, MPG 0911


Re: Urgent advice please. Cadet's new lab values are much worse.

riggslippert@...
 

I spoke to Barb at the Cornell lab this morning and she agreed the results were surprising, considering Cadet's clinical history and signs.  I asked it she could dilute the original sample to give a more accurate number and she will recheck a new sample without charge.  I will be submitting it today.
--
Aunna
October 2018
Oakland County, Michigan, USA
Cadet Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Cadet
Ruger Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Ruger

Cadet Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=84102




Re: High ACTH no symptoms

Brenda Gasch Mittelstadt
 

Kirsten 

I am so glad you asked that. I’ve still not started Pergolide as I don’t believe we’ve had symptoms. We did have a slight laminitis but as both my pony size horses had at same time and I was feeding very inappropriate hay and it was March, no grazing happening, I feel they are not connected. That said the IR certainly was an issue and I’ve made dramatic progress in seven months correcting that and am still in process. 


ACTH tests were odd for seasonal rise. That info in case history. 
--
-Brenda

September 2020, Dodgeville WI USA

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Brenda%20and%20Stormy


Re: Is there a link between analgesics and elevated glucose or ACTH levels?

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Mary Ann,

Here is Rescue Remedy....
http://www.bachflower.com/rescue-remedy-information/

Their site explains far better than can I. 
But I always have it on hand ( Amazon.ca is a good source),in various forms,for horses,dogs,and myself.
I began using it years ago for a black lab , who knew a thunderstorm was coming about 20 minutes before it arrived. She was terrified. RR, dosed about 15 minutes before the storm( or right at same time,whichever I could manage) helped her immensely. Sometime I had to dose more than once. 
Sometimes with my horses I dose more than once,depending on horse, situation,etc. 

You will read the various ways to administer it on the site,all depending on your situation.
It's handy to have the non-alcohol based RR for the horses, but not necessary, IME.

As always,I recommend talking to the company if you have questions.They've been around a long time.
--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Audi Ventral Swelling

 

Lindsay, I can’t tell you what the cause of the swelling is but the ventral line, being the low point on the body, is where resolving edema tends to collect.  I looked at the photos before I saw your post and read it as ventral sweating, lol.  I couldn’t see that so I put it aside.  The swelling could be as simple as bug bites or kicking at flies on his belly.  Or it could have begun as sheath swelling related to IR/PPID.
--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Hypermotility and abdominal spasms

TERRI JENNINGS
 

Teeny is still holding on. She eats well some days and barely eats other days. She definitely isn’t ready to say goodbye as evidenced by her feisty pony attitude. On Friday at dinner time as well as tonight, she has had some abdominal spasms and she looks tucked up. She has no other symptoms and she has been eating while she has the spasms. She does not seem to be in any distress. She is passing manure, respiration, pulse and temp are normal.  I have been sleeping at the barn just in case she starts to colic but so far she’s had no other symptoms of colic.  Any ideas on why this is happening or how to stop/prevent the spasms. I’m worried it will develop into something painful during the night and she will be in distress for hours waiting for morning. So I stay at the barn, but realistically I can’t keep sleeping here. 

Thanks,


--
Terri Jennings with Teeny, Finn and Elliott
Arcata, CA
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Terri%20and%20Teeny
Joined 2019


Re: dr kellon please; blood work very different, now reported as not IR

Daisy Shepherd
 

dr kellon, thank you.  i do not mean to be a never ending question. i am a retired nicu and hospice nurse so am always thinking why. his iron saturation is slightly above normal,  his hay is 216 ppm which is high, is there anything to do for this, this was the lowest iron, esc and starch hay that i tested so i bought it.  mycotoxin source;  hay is clean, weed free,  no mold so far;  we have had a very hot and very dry summer with limited irrigation to our pasture areas so do not see that as a potential,  this farm does have chickens that they are making efforts to keep in their pen so hopefully that is not a source( i had a horse get salmonella from domesticated ducks, she was deathly ill but did recover).  thank you again for any and all advise, daisy and tiko
--
-- 
Daisy, Tiko and Whisper
CO, April 2019
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Daisy%20and%20Tiko 
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90099&p=Name,,,20,2,0,0


Re: Is there a link between analgesics and elevated glucose or ACTH levels?

Mary Ann
 

Lorna Cane, this is first I've every heard of Rescue Remedy. What is it and how is it used?

--
Mary Ann & Rosie - Nova Scotia, Canada - Joined August 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=252134
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mary%20Ann%20and%20Rosie

27241 - 27260 of 279985