Date   

Re: Urgent Emergency

Lorna Cane
 

Not to worry,Teresa.
I'm pretty sure you can delete your post,though,if you want to,by going to bottom of page,click on More (horizontal lines), and hit Delete.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Worming on the weekend at my boarding barn. I believe the wormer allowed for my PPID/EMS horse is just plain ivermectin?

celestinefarm
 

Rhonda,
Ivermectin is safe. It's not the only wormer "allowed"'. The other chemical classes of wormer are fine( concern is with prazinquantel due to insulin increase after adminstration in other species) , but wormer choices should be based on worm burden, and local issues with resistance to wormers. 


--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Re: Compounded Pergolide instead of Prascend

 

Teresa, compounded pergolide is allowed to be supplied by a compounding pharmacy with a vet’s prescription.  The vet can prescribe it if Prascend is unsuitable, which generally will not include cost.  Prascend is identical to compounded pergolide; the difference is in the packaging.  Prascend is supplied in foil packets which contain an inert gas and is stable for long periods of time.  Pergolide is susceptible to moisture and deteriorates rapidly so it needs special care, from choosing a pharmacy to purchasing in small quantities and storing carefully.  Those using 1-3 mg of pergolide might be happier using Prascend for the convenience.  I generally use a combination of both.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Compounded Pergolide instead of Prascend

celestinefarm
 

Compounded pergolide is legal and is available in the states and in Canada at licensed compounding pharmacies.  Compounded pergolide is not inferior to Prascend as it is the same ingredient, pergolide mesylate. Forms of pergolide have been shown to have different rates of stability. The ECIR group has recommended compounded pergolide in capsule form as the capsules help to protect the pergolide from heat, light and moisture, the environmental effects that increase instability in pergolide. The most stable form of the drug is Prascend's form, tablets, wrapped in foil and opaque plastic blister paks. However, tablets are difficult to get into horses, and the cost ( which the AAEP says is not a valid reason to Rx compounded, because apparently they don't live in the real world) makes Prascend prohibitive to many owners when the horse needs more than 1-2mgs per day to control ACTH. 

Two of the most used compounding pharmacies here in the states  by members that compound pergolide are Wedgewood Pharmacy and Pet Health Pharmacy. Canadian members can provide info on Island Pharmacy. Both Wedgewood and Pet Health are accredited by the Association of Compounding Pharmacies and are licensed to dispense to almost all the states in the USA.

https://www.wedgewoodpharmacy.com/about-us/
https://www.pethealthpharmacy.com/what-is-compounding/

--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Winter laminitis and blanketing

Jan D
 

Do you start blanketing and using boots, socks and fleece lined shipping boots at 40 degrees and under;  thus preventing the horse’s coat to fully grow for when the temperature gets really cold?  
--
Jan
IN 2002

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jan%20and%20Mariah


 


Re: Urgent Emergency

 

No worries, Teresa!  Your concern and support are appreciated!  I’ve seen previous replies after I’ve posted more often than I care to admit.  At first, it was embarrassing but I’ve gotten over that.  Plus, it gives someone else a chance to comment on your post, to the benefit of all of us.  Sometimes I post just to jumpstart the discussion.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Urgent Emergency

 

Hi Dr Kellon ,
Her gums were normal ...heart and respiration were obviously high due to the event ...she was shaking/shivering/trembling ...he did not give IV Dex but left me with naquazone for the potential and anticipated swelling from the trauma. I did not give it to her ...this morning she is bright alert and happily eating her hay ...had pee/poop overnight ...she’s got swelling on both hind legs ...looking more like very stocked up..,the hock is fluidy looking like she’s got a hematoma or seroma most likely from banging it on the walls ...she is weight bearing and walking sound all things considered ..,my other vet suggested maybe giving just 1 packet ?? Again I still haven’t given anything ...I’m so afraid of it causing a laminitis flare up ...but the vet warned me that laminitis could potentially occur in her other feet from supporting the injured leg/hoof and or potentially from any endotoxins due to tissue dieing from the crushing nature of this type of trauma. I’m scared to death ..I sent video and pictures to the vets this morning and they said amazingly looks a lot better than he expected.


--
Michele Goldberg
Bernville, Pa
joined 5/19/2016


Re: Compounded Pergolide instead of Prascend

tosborne@...
 

I'm really confused.  I thought that compounded pergolide was illegal for a pharmacy to produce once the FDA approved Prascend?  I also thought that compounded pergolide was supposed to be inferior to Prascend with faster deterioration?
--
Teresa O in Ontario, Canada 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Teresa%20and%20Snickers


Re: Urgent Emergency

tosborne@...
 

My apologies, for some reason I did not see Dr. Kellon's post until after I had made mine.  I absolutely did not intend to jump in, I thought that no one else had seen the post yet and I just wanted to offer some moral support.

I tried to delete my post but can't seem to make that happen :(
--
Teresa O in Ontario, Canada 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Teresa%20and%20Snickers


Worming on the weekend at my boarding barn. I believe the wormer allowed for my PPID/EMS horse is just plain ivermectin?

Rhonda Turley
 


--
Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020
Scooter and Rhonda     


Re: Urgent Emergency

tosborne@...
 

Michele, I'm really sorry that your horse and you are going through this. 

I did a quick internet search on the naquazone " Trichlormethiazide is an oral combination product marketed under the name Naquasone as a treatment for udder edema in cows. It is used to reduce mild swellings, especially in the legs of horses, by causing the body to lose water and sodium chloride by decreasing the reabsorption of these electrolytes in the kidneys. In combination with dexamethasone, which is a potent anti-inflammatory, it should be used only under the supervision of a veterinarian who has made a proper diagnostic evaluation.

Trichlor/dexamethasone does not cure the underlying cause of the swelling. Usage:Trichlormethiazide combined with dexamethasone is used to reduce mild swelling in the legs of horses. Because each component of the product works by a different mechanism, trichlor/dex contains a smaller dose of the individual drugs than might be used when administered separately.  Precautions: Dexamethasone is a corticosteroid and should be used with extreme caution in any horse prone to laminitis.

Trichlormethiazide is a diuretic and prolonged use can result in electrolyte depletion and dehydration. Free access to water and salt are important."

Based on this, I would be very leary about administering the drug to your Schimpie, especially since she has had laminitis induced by steriods before.  To my way of thinking, if it doesn't cure the underlying cause of the swelling, it is not worth the risk.  I would use ice packs covered with dish towels or other soft thin fabric. And for shock, blanket your mare and try to get some Rescue Remedy.  In Ontario, you can get rescue remedy at most health stores and many grocery stores also carry it. 

I would go back to the vet and lay out your concerns.  I would be surprised if they can't come up with an alternative for you.

I will keep you and Schimpie in my heart.  Please keep us posted on her progress.

--
Teresa O in Ontario, Canada 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Teresa%20and%20Snickers


Re: Fasting Insulin Guidelines

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

For insulin testing, remember the best and simplest is to keep hay available through the night before and day of testing with no other feeding.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Winter coat not growing

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Starts and stops in both growth and shedding can happen. Don't blanket her unless she's shivering.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Riosa needs help looking forward feedback

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

You need a flashlight or head lamp. Grasp her tongue and pull it out the side of her  mouth. That will keep her mouth open. You'll need to do it on both sides.

Any equine dentists around?

If she's drinking normally this isn't  an emergency that would necessitate hauling her if she can be seen within a few days. Feed her cubes soupy.

I don't know how you are flushing but a hose works best. You're going to get wet!
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Urgent Emergency

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 
Edited

This post is now 3 hours old so you probably  made your decision already. We can't prescribe for your horse or contradict your vet but I can give you some background.

Every medication comes with a list of risks and  benefits that must be weighed for the individual case. Corticosteroids can be lifesaving in some  instances of shock. They support heart action  and stabilize membranes. In that scenario they are administered intravenously and ASAP. I'm guessing that wasn't the situation or your vet would have given them.  It may also be given to control tissue swelling, in which case it may be given with a diuretic (Naquasone). This is not a lifesaving use.

Signs of shock to watch for: Pale membranes, weak pulse, trembling/shivering, "out of it".

The 15 mg is a high dose. I wouldn't  give it with her history but that's just an opinion and obviously I'm not there.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Message Posting Etiquette - Keeping ECIR User Friendly - Thu, 10/15/2020 #cal-notice

main@ECIR.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

Message Posting Etiquette - Keeping ECIR User Friendly

When:
Thursday, 15 October 2020

Description:
Message Posting Etiquette

This is a high volume group that can be difficult to follow. Help make it easier for everyone by following the Message Posting Guidelines below:
1) Sign your posts. This is a very large group.  Whenever posting a message, identify yourself and your equine by using your full ECIR Signature with your first name, location, the date you joined and the links to your Case History folder and Photo Album. The volunteers need all this information to provide quality responses and suggestions for local support, vendors, vets and hoof care. 
 
2) Be clear in your posts. If you need to quote a line this is most easily done using the web to reply (not from email). Once you have the message you want to reply to on your screen, copy the text you want quoted, then paste it into the reply message composer.  Highlight the text you are quoting and then click on the quotation marks in the toolbar.  
3) Be considerate of the Support Team. They volunteer to help members in their spare time. Many have full time jobs. Unless you are in an emergency read the Start Here Files and check the archives to see if your question has been answered before.  Many new member's questions are answered there.
4) Discussion should always take place on the forums so all members can learn from the conversation and the support team can help clear up confusion.  
5)  Try not to hijack threads.  Start a New Message or change the subject line to discuss issues not covered by the subject line.
6) Don't immediately re-post.  Give “missing” posts a few hours before reposting. For unanswered messages, be patient. A lack of response is not personal or a reflection on you in any way. With so many posts some do get missed. Unless in an emergency situation, wait roughly 48 hours before re-posting and edit the subject line with "2nd Try". 
7) Off-topic but horse-related discussions: ECIR Horsekeeping Forum provides a place to discuss issues involving non-PPID/EMS horses, general horse keeping practices, other equine health issues, alternative therapies and any equine related philosophical debates.
8) All discussion about horses with PPID and EMS takes place in the ECIR Forum. Hoof related discussion for horses that do not have PPID/EMS takes place in the ECIR Hoof Forum
 Thank you for your cooperation.
 
- The ECIR Group support Team
 
 


Urgent Emergency

 

My mare Schimpie got cast in her stall tonight and managed to get both hind legs & feet stuck in the stall bars ...she struggled , flailed and tore the bars/grate down with her hind legs and feet stuck..we had to get a saw to cut the bars in order to free her ....the vet gave her IV dmso , banamine , Gentacin, and Equisule...she tore the back of her heel bulb in the left hind hoof , and gashed the corbi art band ...she also had some gashes above and below her right hock ...the vet said she was in shock and thinks she should have naquazone -which contains dexamethasone ...problem is she had an acute bout of laminitis in June which was induced by steroids that were given for her allergies ...I’m very hesitant to give her naquazone given her recent history of laminitis ..but he said with a trauma like this and her being in shock she should have it ...it’s packets ..he wants me to give her 3 packets which would equal 15mg ...what should I do ?? I’m freaked out by this accident , freaked out that’s shes in shock and also very torn if I should give her this naquazone ...vet says it’s what you do for a trauma /injury 
--
Michele Goldberg
Bernville, Pa 
joined 5/19/2016


Re: Effects of long term high insulin levels

 

Thank you Kirsten. I will definitely let my BO know that not ALL the calories are soaked out of the hay. I was pretty astounded & then mad when she liked his quality of life to his food. He is bright, looks forward to me showing up 6 days a week & getting him out to exercise. He is sound & eats well. I just need to make sure he’s getting enough to put on weight. He doesn’t look quite as good as his last pics. I’ll take some tomorrow & out them in his Case History folder. Again, thank you for the info!! 
--
Beth & Flame & Diana

NV Oct 2013

Flame Case History

Flame Pictures

Diana Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Beth%20and%20Diana  




Re: Riosa needs help looking forward feedback

hdavis
 

Thanks Martha.  Yes all is normal in regards to temp, resp rate, attitude etc.  I sent videos to my vet and she agrees she is presenting as if something stuck in her teeth or mouth.  It appears to be along the cheek area in the left side of her mouth.  I hesitate to give an nsaid at this point as want her to still be carful chewing and worry if she isn’t she might choke esp with her soaked cubes.  She is acting like she is trying to get whatever it is out with her tongue and moving her jaw.  

Do you or anyone on the forum know about hauling horses who are recovering from laminitis?  Any guidelines as to how long after laminitis that they can be safely hauled in regards to hurting their hooves or for how long?  

Thoughts or ideas?


From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Martha McSherry via groups.io <mmcsherry@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 8:53:49 PM
To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ECIR] Riosa needs help looking forward feedback
 
Heather, from your description, that sounds like a pain response to me.  Do you have any banamine you can give her (orally) to see if the chewing stops?  You should probably take her temperature first.  
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 

--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm

Case History


 




Re: Riosa needs help looking forward feedback

 

Heather, from your description, that sounds like a pain response to me.  Do you have any banamine you can give her (orally) to see if the chewing stops?  You should probably take her temperature first.  
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 

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