Date   

Re: Power Of Trimming - Feedback From Chiropractor

 

How exciting, Lynn!  Thanks for sharing your detailed notes.  I’ve learned so much following along!
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Power Of Trimming - Feedback From Chiropractor

Lynn
 

I was concerned because he does have a bit of pot belly (the barn butler keeps calling him pregnant) and of course loss of topline and some muscle loss (my imagination was taking flight..."maybe his Cushings isn't under control, maybe he needs more pergolide etc. But the chiropractor really dispelled those worries by saying - "honestly - he looks much better than the last time I saw him" and that the topline/belly is just simply that....lack of conditioning which can be fixed. I was greatly relieved. If things stay on track she estimates I could be on him by end of November ...but when i do...we're starting at just 5 minutes walking.
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Re: Power Of Trimming - Feedback From Chiropractor

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Thanks so much for the update, Lynn :)

Makes my day to hear that Relevante is so much more comfortable and happier. You and your farrier also deserve huge kudos for getting all the pieces into place for him.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Power Of Trimming - Feedback From Chiropractor

Lynn
 

Relevante is seen by a chiropractor (who is also a DVM) twice a year. His most recent appointment was this morning. She had some interesting observations I thought appropriate to share here. Last week I texted her Lavinia's initial findings on his back feet following radiographs I had taken at the end of May. You can review the full thread here Jun 8    
To briefly recap Lavinia's comments...
First, thanks for getting new radiographs as it's been a year since we last looked inside. As it turns out, it was extremely lucky that you were able to include ones of the hind feet as well as the fronts. Rads show that the front feet are hugely improved, really only needing some minor tweaks to get them as optimal as they can be. There's still pastern arthritis present in all four legs but it hasn't progressed. Still battling thinner than ideal sole depth and underrun heels all around but Relevante is now moving soundly so that's huge.

The hinds rads show some serious issues that no one had any idea were present. The only hint that something might be amiss is that the fetlocks appear to be thicker than you would expect, but that could also be just be the way they appear in the photos. Unfortunately, the bony column alignment is totally out of whack and is putting a huge amount of strain on the tendons/ligaments. So now, we need to shift the focus to alleviating these issues using the same techniques you were applying to get the fronts back into shape. The current trim on the hinds is already really close as your farrier has been carrying over the same work he's been doing on the fronts. Unfortunately, there were hidden issues that needed even more specific attention. The HPAs are severely broken back so will need to add more height to the back half of the hoof capsule to help support everything inside and assist in pushing it back up into the correct position. While the trim is taking shape, using wedge pads with frog support inside of the hoof boots will help (know you've already gotten this part in place).
 

I also sent the chiropractor the June radiograph composite markups for his hind feet that Lavinia did along with the radiograph composite markups she provided in August. Our chiropractor was blown away! Couldn't believe it was the same horse. During her examination/adjustment this morning, she offered the following observations....
1. Improved posture - his topline/back was not hollowed as in prior visits, much more comfortable in his lower back
2. she said..."I know he's not, but he actually seems taller because he is standing up properly
3. "I can tell he feels much better overall, he was much more engaged in the process today and I can see it in his face. She attributed all this to changes made by the corrective trimming process we've been following.

She helped me put together a reconditioning timeline/guideline. I am committing to going out there every other day to hand walk him. (Of course I should mention that with Lavinia's guidance he was slowly weaned off the orthotic wedges (blue/turquoise) in the Soft Ride boots to the all blue orthotics (least dense all over) with periods of no boots at all first. He wears the boots to be hand walked but is not wearing any boots in his stall/paddock and has done fine).

I'll start with 10 to 15 minutes and then add a little bit more time each session. I'm also getting the Renegade Viper boots so i can take him for longer hand walks eventually on the drive and around the farm. Our goal is to ultimately be able to ride and move beyond a walk so that he can derive the benefits of exercise appropriate to his age for his IR and arthritis.

Needless to say I was a very happy camper today. I can't thank Lavinia enough (and all those who have contributed to my boy's care)! I plan to continue with paid consultation markups with Lavinia until his trim on the hind feet is optimal. We're still in process and I don't want to rush things. 
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Re: Riosa needs help looking forward feedback

 

I wonder if she has a partial choke.  My daughter has a pony that had similar symptoms.  She was able to reach in and dislodge it but it took awhile with less food and more soupiness to get her back to normal eating.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Very high ACTH, no symotoms

Bonnie Eddy
 

I apologize,  guess my old age is making it hard. I initially wanted to know if it's possible to have a high ACTH with no symptoms. 

Bonnie Snodgrass you asked about insulin and glucose.
Joseph with ACTH of 572 no symptoms  age 20
Glucose 99 mg/dL  normal= 71-122
Insulin 20.45ng/mL. normal=10-40

Zane mild symptoms age16 ACTH 172
Glucose  98 normal= 71-122
Insulin  30.02 normal=10-40

Both from Cornell 

Will get the case histories up asap.

Thank you,
--
Bonnie with Racham (over the rainbow) from Southern California, Nov/2016

Case History
Racham's Photos 
Ω 

 


Re: thrush!!

Sandy Gazzard
 

hi, yea I need to do the case history -im a toad.  im having the trimmer any day now. but prob due to the muddy track, I can remove the poos, but urine sadly no. 
many thanks
--
sandy
, joined 27th January 2020. location. Cornwall-England


Re: 2 months after initial laminitis episode

Sherry Morse
 




Re: Very high ACTH, no symotoms

 

Bonnie,
Question - Did you have either or both horses tested for insulin levels? High ACTH levels can cause a significant rise in insulin levels and possibly cause laminitis.  I learned that it just makes sense financially  to go ahead and test ACTH, Insulin and Glucose levels. Most of the testing expense isn't from the lab work, it's your vet's charges for their time, travel, shipping, etc. 
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Group Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: Very high ACTH, no symotoms

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Bonnie,

You've already received several answers to this question when you first posted it earlier this week:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/77423350#256126




Re: Riosa needs help looking forward feedback

hdavis
 

Hello,

I managed to touch base with my regular equine vet about Rio's teeth issue and we discussed some options to try to flush her mouth out as she still suspects something stuck in her mouth or food gets stuck somewhere as the day progresses making her mouth irritated. In the am Rio has no issues eating her hay or cubes, then at her noon feed she also does well with perhaps a few issues of licking and moving opening and closing her mouth.  When her 5:30 meal comes around she has issues with hay and prefers to eat her cubes and there is usually a lot of pawing, tossing of cubes and hay with her nose and general frustration.  Same with the final night feed.  I have been rinsing her mouth out before each feeding hoping to try to dislodge or relieve some of what is causing her issues.  I have not tried the garden hose trick yet due to the cold weather we dipped down into.  

As my vet cannot get out here today or next week, we discussed trying to get the local vet (40 minutes one way) up next week.  I have a call into him today to discuss options and see if he would be open to trying to look at her without sedation.  I have searched the messages and reviewed the files and have some questions on sedation.

Valium is the safest one from my understanding but based on our last experience with it which could have just been a fluke I am hesitant about trying it again. So if we absolutely need to sedate her would the best option be using dormosedan at a lower dose ie half the reg dose?  I also have rescue remedy which I would like to try first.  Are there any interactions with sedatives if the horse is on Invokana and any that would be better to use in conjunction with Invokana than others. As well she is on 2 mgs of Prascend and J herb, chondroitin and arginine.  I would stop the J herb a day or 2 before the vet came out. 

Thoughts?


--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm

Case History


 




2 months after initial laminitis episode

W.phyllis60@...
 

I am caretaker for a 16h Tennessee Walker mare that developed laminitis early August. She is obese (fatty deposits at withers and base of tail and cresty neck) and owner had her on sweet feed as well. She had access to grass pasture but spent most of her time on a partial alfalfa pasture. At the onset I immediately took her off pasture and sweet feed. She was very sore so had her on 2g bute a day. She is now off bute completely. Initial trim after onset seemed to provide some pain relief but most recent trim, 2 weeks ago, she is very sore again. Left front showed some sole bruising and right front has separated lamina. She does not hoof test sore and has very thick soles. I have recently put her in therapy boots that I had for my own horse (old injury) which seemed to help some. Vet was out to see her and confirmed laminitis but owner refused to pay for radiographs so I’m trying to figure out if I am doing the right things...what else I can possibly do for her...is this typical 2 months in? She is on grass hay and has lost weight since being inside. She gets 20 lbs of hay per day. Should I be soaking it? Should I have it tested? Any advice or guidance would be most appreciated! I feel so badly for her and with my limited resources I’m not sure what else to do.
Thanks so much!
--
Phyllis W in OH 2020


Adding Mad Barn Milk Thistle to Scooter"s diet?

Rhonda Turley
 

 https://madbarn.ca/product/milk-thistle/      Any reviews?  It is a new product for Mad Barn.
--
Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020
Scooter and Rhonda     


Re: chickens in horse hay/ chance for salmonella with my IR horse

celestinefarm
 

Daisy, my neighbor's chickens a couple of years ago decided they liked to roam over to my barn. They would spend the day crapping on everything and laying eggs in the hay, which would end up either rolling down between the wall and bale stack or be buried enough in the hay that they would end up smashed on the hay and I lost half a bale to the mess.  My neighbors finally stopped allowing them to free roam, but one chicken refused to go back home and she ended up becoming kind of a pet. I kept her for about two or three months, but in that time, she learned to roost on top of Tipperary's stall wall, where she would vent into his water buckets.  Or down the wall, In the aisle , where I or others would track it into the tack room or my truck.
I found a home for the chicken with a friend who keeps chickens.  It took me days to find and clean up the mess they left behind. I would do everything I could to not have my horse around chickens.  I know other animals shed salmonella but chicken manure is not easy to find in hay, feed. You can't keep water buckets clean 24/7 with chickens roaming, flying and roosting.  Just my opinion but based on a years worth of experience. 
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


High insulin again- metformin, mare cycles

 

Here we go again, only during the seasonal rise. I’d appreciate a review of the steps I’m taking to address Cayuse’s latest high insulin. Updated CH link.

 

On 9/11/20 I received the second very high insulin test for Cayuse in 6 months, this time 106.29 ulu/ml. I immediately started trying to syringe 13.5g of metformin twice a day, gave a ½ mg increase in pergolide and started soaking her hay longer. Soaked hay tests before I increased soaking times showed ESC of 5.9% 6.7% (two tests, same hay, soak time) and 4.9%

 

The results of a follow-up draw 17 days after these management changes: insulin dropped to 60.29 ulu/ml. ACTH is unchanged. 

 

Metformin dosing wasn’t spot-on during the 17 days until I found reusable syringes (silicone O-ring is the key) that I can operate smoothly with one hand. I know that Cayuse is now getting the full metformin dose. That didn’t happen until three days before the follow-up blood draw. We had a glitch the day before the blood draw when we missed the AM dose.

 

My plan has been to continue metformin, with another ½ mg increase in pergolide, and check insulin and ACTH again in the second week of November. That will be two months since we started metformin. I don’t see any way to know metformin’s role in reducing insulin, so for now I don’t plan to stop it. OTOH I’m not prepared to give metformin all credit for the insulin drop because Cayuse had a similar insulin drop in late spring without metformin. 

 

A new factor is that this year, for the first time, her mare cycles were noticeable and seemingly endless. When I checked hormones a few years ago, only progesterone was high. Is there any sense in rechecking hormones at this time of year? Could these high insulin tests be capturing the pattern of her estrus cycle?

 

Her insulin values are fluctuating in a bad way with a clear upward trend. Right now, interestingly, she looks good: body condition trim, crest smaller, bucking and playing. 

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos 


Very high ACTH, no symotoms

Bonnie Eddy
 

Wanting to know if it possible to get a really high ACTH with NO symptoms.

1st gelding new horse has mild symptoms, he tested at 176

2nd gelding as he is 20, we just did a routine check to see where he was. His ACTH was 576. Absolutely NO symptoms. 

Is is possible to have a horse that high with no symptoms? Am almost wondering if the 2 were somehow mixed up? Was sent to Cornell.

Will start new case histories, both started on Prascend. Can't believe we've got 2 PPID. We've only got 3 horses.

Thank you,
--
Bonnie with Racham (over the rainbow) from Southern California, Nov/2016

Case History
Racham's Photos 
Ω 

 


Re: Compounded Pergolide instead of Prascend

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 06:19 PM, Cheryl Oickle wrote:
I deal with Island Pharmacy and they are awesome. It took time to wrap my head around the strength difference after we discussed it three ways between vet and pharmacy and me. Basically 1 mg of compounded pergolide mesylate delivers 0.7 mg of the prascend equivalent due to the compounding ingredient. 
At the risk of confusing things, both Prascend and compounded pergolide are pergolide mesylate.  Both are also in a base of some sort because 1 mg is the equivalent of less than 2 grains of salt, virtually an invisibly small amount.  Compounding ingredients have nothing to do with it. It's the amount of pergolide mesylate and therefore of pergolide activity that is different in some compounded products vs Prascend.
 
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Adding Jiaogulan to diet

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

No, it won't hurt. Start with 1 tsp if she will eat it as a paste (most will) once or twice a  day.  If feeding with meals, start with 1 tbsp. Adding AAKG is for enhanced circulatory effects and won't help with the adaptogen action.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: thrush!!

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

ACV and clay won't get the job done.  If the cracks are deep, clean them out with gauze and water with Fairy dish soap then rinse thoroughly using a small syringe and a cow teat cannula. Infuse with a mastitis antibiotic https://www.farmacy.co.uk/categories/159-milking-cow-tube ,  Cover the heels with a sanitary napkin held in place with a self-adhesive wrap https://www.farmacy.co.uk/products/555-vetrap-cohesive-bandage10cm-each .  Repeat daily until healed.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Adding Jiaogulan to diet

Cheryl Oickle
 

As above.  I have noticed that Jewel is a bit more apathetic, depressed maybe since increasing her pergolide over 8 weeks ago. Her activity level  a bit slower, yet her usual interactiveness is great. Of note she has been stocking up a bit but this resolves with riding
I do not see any signs of laminitis, she still moves out fairly well when ridden, appetite great, weight stable etc.
Trims continue on a 4 week cycle.  Yes she is getting older (almost 20) but...
My question, a trial of jiaogulan I am considering.  Would it hurt. And how much should I give, I can only feed once daily.
My friend suggests adding AAKG. Is this necessary

--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063

27461 - 27480 of 280357