Date   

Re: Riosa needs help looking forward feedback

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

i Heather,

Just to add another possibility to consider.

One of my boys went thru something similar: was opening and closing his mouth, twisting his head around, licking his lips and generally moving is tongue around inside his mouth. I tried flushing his mouth, examining it for something being stuck in his teeth and couldn't find anything. Called the vet, who also suspected something was stuck so came out. After examining him thoroughly, it turned out he was having some gas issues and as soon as he passed that, he was fine. It happened a few more time, on and off over a couple of months, then stopped completely. Never did figure out exactly what was causing the problem, so I'm assuming there was something about some of the hay that wasn't agreeing with him 100% as he lived on a dry lot.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: High ACTH no symptoms

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Oh my goodness,  I see I've mixed up Brenda and Bonnie's 2 posts!   No wonder Brenda's case history for Stormy doesn't have the results Bonnie was sharing!  Lol

Brenda, most of what I wrote above still applies to you I think, but you can definitely disregard this comment:

Was Stormy the one with the mild symptoms and baseline ACTH of 176 more recently?  That higher baseline ACTH during seasonal rise is normally considered a positive for early PPID here.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Higher than 10% NSC survey by Dr. Kellon

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Here it is, Judy:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/254507

You can also find this by opening the ECIR Group home page, then scrolling down to the bottom where it lists the top hashtags. Click on Polls.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Trimmer coming on Wednesday

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Judy,

I've added the mark-ups for Bugsy's trim to his album. I already sent this info to you in time for the actual trim but for those interested and/or following his journey:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=243358

Bugsy's trim has come a long way - kudos to you for making that happen. Kudos to your farrier for being willing to try doing something outside his comfort zone. There appear to be definite improvements in the concavity, which usually goes along with increases in sole depth. Toes are moving back nicely; heels have made some improvements but they are really the biggest sticking point now. Getting the flaring in the heel area fully controlled will help, as will making sure Bugsy is always landing heel-first when moving at any speed more than an ambling walk.
 
LF lateral: Blue area still needs to back up more. This is the area in front of where the sole appears to ridge when looking at it from below. You can see the spaghetti-like texture that tells you it's laminar wedge material. Green line is the visual of how the hoof capsule will eventually be aligned. Orange line shows where the heels will eventually reside.
 
LF lateral sole plane: Lime line follows the top of the ridge. Bevel everything ahead of that away even more. Lay the rasp flat across the hoof side-to-side. Measure the depth of the collateral grooves just behind the tip of the frog from their deepest point to the bottom of the rasp. If that is 3/4", sole depth is good. If the toe ridge is taller than that point, you can lower that to the height of the rasp. Then measure the collateral groove depth as at their deepest point in the back of the foot - want 1". Any more than that means you can shave the difference off the heels. Short blue lines are all small areas that can be trimmed away to get rid of loose tags and the hooks that the heels are developing.
 
LF sole plane: Yellow circle contains that central sulcus crack that is still present. Keep up with treating that several times per week until it closes up entirely. small blue hashes are the same ones in the lateral sole plane shot.
 
LF sole: Solid blue lines are where the perimeter should be: toe back, heel flares in, light leveling then ramping of the backs of the heel buttresses. Hashed areas are what needs to be removed. Yellow hashes are along the leading edges of the bars, which can be lowered slightly as they appear ready to crumble off.
 
RF lateral: Blue means toe back some more, orange is where the heels will eventually end up, green line is how the dorsal wall will eventually align.
 
RF lateral sole plane: Lime line runs along the top of the toe ridge. Blue area is remaining laminar wedge that can be eliminated. Short blue hashed lines are bits of loose periople and curling-over heel buttress that can be tidied up.
 
RF sole: Blue in the toe is ahead of the toe ridge and can be removed. Blue in the heels is where the subtle heel flaring can be addressed. Yellow hashes run along the tops of the bars, where they can be cleaned up as they appear to be crumbling away.
 
LH lateral: Same general notes as the fronts but note how the coronary band is pulled down and forward as it reaches the heels - whereas in the fronts, it is fairly level.  Rocker the back of the heel buttress lightly to help it to start standing more upright.
 
LH sole plane: Purple hashes are where to add the rockers/ramps to the heels. Blue hashes are the tops of the bars that can be lowered a bit.
 
LH sole: Lime hashed area at the tip of the frog is some overgrowth that has twisted medially. It appears to just be "hanging out" there, so can be removed if it's not firmly attached. Solid blue line is the new perimeter, with the blue hashed area what needs to be brought inward - esp. in the toe and the heels. Yellow hashed areas are the tops of the bars that can be tidied p a bit.
 
RH lateral: Same discussion as the other three feet.
 
RH sole: Same idea as the LH.
 
As before, padded boots as needed - meaning any time he is the least bit tender or isn't landing heel first at any speed greater than a walk. Never want to see toe-first landings as those are both an indication something else isn't correct and they cause damage.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Trimmer coming on Wednesday

Judy and Bugsy
 

This year’s hay analysis is now posted. 
--

 

Judy and Bugsy

Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

Feb. 25, 2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Judy%20and%20Bugsy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=243358

 




Re: Power Of Trimming - Feedback From Chiropractor

Lynn
 

Thanks Heather!  Tracy - you provided the valuable information about the Renegade Vipers prior to the pandemic and i so appreciate it. It was so helpful to have input from a Paso Fino owner as I found boots can really interfere with their gait. We weren't ready at the time but i filed the info away. I did ask my farrier about the shells. He does not have them. But what I am doing is ...I had the caregiver hold the tape measure both ways and took pictures and I'm providing photos of his lateral and sole views. They say on their website that if you can send photos they will help guide you. So hopefully we'll get the right size the first time and they will fit his hoof shape. Fingers crossed.
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Re: Power Of Trimming - Feedback From Chiropractor

Buzz
 


Re: Power Of Trimming - Feedback From Chiropractor

hdavis
 


Re: Power Of Trimming - Feedback From Chiropractor

Tracy
 

Awesome news Lynn!  I have Vipers I use on Salsa.  Have two other kinds of boots too - but the Vipers are the go-to for riding.  The regular Renegades did not fit his hooves at all.
I found a farrier that had the fitting shells and was glad I was able to use those before I ordered.

--
Tracy and Salsa (1999 model year Paso Fino)
Middle TN USA, September 2019
Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tracy%20and%20Salsa
Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95827


Higher than 10% NSC survey by Dr. Kellon

Judy and Bugsy
 

Hi all,

I'm having a terrible time trying to find Dr. Kellon's post when she was wanting people who had higher than 10%NSC hay but no laminitis with horses.  Can someone, who is smarter than me, help me find that post?

Thanks
--

 

Judy and Bugsy

Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

Feb. 25, 2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Judy%20and%20Bugsy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=243358

 




Re: Trimmer coming on Wednesday

Judy and Bugsy
 

I posted Bugsy's post-trim photos in his album.  I would like Lavinia et.al. to have a look to see if I need to do any tweaking besides continue with ACV soaking.  I'm thinking I need to do more top down rasping to address the flares.

Thanks in advance! 

And yes Bonnie, I do have the hay analysis for this year's hay.  I'm not sure I remember how to upload it though, so I will have to figure that out.  
--

 

Judy and Bugsy

Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

Feb. 25, 2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Judy%20and%20Bugsy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=243358

 




Re: Estradiol, Regumste and ad hoc use.

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Forgot to mention she is also on ctb 2.x per day scoop included in the uckele 5x. 

Her latest hormone panel is not yet updated will do that tonight.
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Estradiol, Regumste and ad hoc use.

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi Dr Kellon,

If you remember we had Summer on regumate and she ended up looking metabolic and after stopping the hormone and doing a metabolic panel and a hormone panel she was compensated IR, and positive for cushings. All hormones were in normal ranges ans neg for granulosa cell tumor.

I didn't need to use hormone therapy for her cycles until this month and she is having a medium cycle but pressing badly and has injured the top of her tail again. 

I am wondering if estradiol or regumate is a better option knowing that she would not be on it full time only for a week in March and a week in Oct which seem to be her terrible months.

She is on 0.5 of prascend and while she had just come out of the veil she has gone back into the veil since her cycle started.

I have been using low doses of banamine for cycle pain but really want to avoid her getting hurt from pressing. 

She is currently on 6mg of estradiol since Tuesday and mare symptoms have not decreased. She is also on 10 ml of apf pro per day (5ml 2x per day)

Thanks in advance.
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Power Of Trimming - Feedback From Chiropractor

Lynn
 

Me too Martha! Me too. It's been like going to college!
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Re: Power Of Trimming - Feedback From Chiropractor

 

How exciting, Lynn!  Thanks for sharing your detailed notes.  I’ve learned so much following along!
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Power Of Trimming - Feedback From Chiropractor

Lynn
 

I was concerned because he does have a bit of pot belly (the barn butler keeps calling him pregnant) and of course loss of topline and some muscle loss (my imagination was taking flight..."maybe his Cushings isn't under control, maybe he needs more pergolide etc. But the chiropractor really dispelled those worries by saying - "honestly - he looks much better than the last time I saw him" and that the topline/belly is just simply that....lack of conditioning which can be fixed. I was greatly relieved. If things stay on track she estimates I could be on him by end of November ...but when i do...we're starting at just 5 minutes walking.
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Re: Power Of Trimming - Feedback From Chiropractor

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Thanks so much for the update, Lynn :)

Makes my day to hear that Relevante is so much more comfortable and happier. You and your farrier also deserve huge kudos for getting all the pieces into place for him.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Power Of Trimming - Feedback From Chiropractor

Lynn
 

Relevante is seen by a chiropractor (who is also a DVM) twice a year. His most recent appointment was this morning. She had some interesting observations I thought appropriate to share here. Last week I texted her Lavinia's initial findings on his back feet following radiographs I had taken at the end of May. You can review the full thread here Jun 8    
To briefly recap Lavinia's comments...
First, thanks for getting new radiographs as it's been a year since we last looked inside. As it turns out, it was extremely lucky that you were able to include ones of the hind feet as well as the fronts. Rads show that the front feet are hugely improved, really only needing some minor tweaks to get them as optimal as they can be. There's still pastern arthritis present in all four legs but it hasn't progressed. Still battling thinner than ideal sole depth and underrun heels all around but Relevante is now moving soundly so that's huge.

The hinds rads show some serious issues that no one had any idea were present. The only hint that something might be amiss is that the fetlocks appear to be thicker than you would expect, but that could also be just be the way they appear in the photos. Unfortunately, the bony column alignment is totally out of whack and is putting a huge amount of strain on the tendons/ligaments. So now, we need to shift the focus to alleviating these issues using the same techniques you were applying to get the fronts back into shape. The current trim on the hinds is already really close as your farrier has been carrying over the same work he's been doing on the fronts. Unfortunately, there were hidden issues that needed even more specific attention. The HPAs are severely broken back so will need to add more height to the back half of the hoof capsule to help support everything inside and assist in pushing it back up into the correct position. While the trim is taking shape, using wedge pads with frog support inside of the hoof boots will help (know you've already gotten this part in place).
 

I also sent the chiropractor the June radiograph composite markups for his hind feet that Lavinia did along with the radiograph composite markups she provided in August. Our chiropractor was blown away! Couldn't believe it was the same horse. During her examination/adjustment this morning, she offered the following observations....
1. Improved posture - his topline/back was not hollowed as in prior visits, much more comfortable in his lower back
2. she said..."I know he's not, but he actually seems taller because he is standing up properly
3. "I can tell he feels much better overall, he was much more engaged in the process today and I can see it in his face. She attributed all this to changes made by the corrective trimming process we've been following.

She helped me put together a reconditioning timeline/guideline. I am committing to going out there every other day to hand walk him. (Of course I should mention that with Lavinia's guidance he was slowly weaned off the orthotic wedges (blue/turquoise) in the Soft Ride boots to the all blue orthotics (least dense all over) with periods of no boots at all first. He wears the boots to be hand walked but is not wearing any boots in his stall/paddock and has done fine).

I'll start with 10 to 15 minutes and then add a little bit more time each session. I'm also getting the Renegade Viper boots so i can take him for longer hand walks eventually on the drive and around the farm. Our goal is to ultimately be able to ride and move beyond a walk so that he can derive the benefits of exercise appropriate to his age for his IR and arthritis.

Needless to say I was a very happy camper today. I can't thank Lavinia enough (and all those who have contributed to my boy's care)! I plan to continue with paid consultation markups with Lavinia until his trim on the hind feet is optimal. We're still in process and I don't want to rush things. 
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Re: Riosa needs help looking forward feedback

 

I wonder if she has a partial choke.  My daughter has a pony that had similar symptoms.  She was able to reach in and dislodge it but it took awhile with less food and more soupiness to get her back to normal eating.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Very high ACTH, no symotoms

Bonnie Eddy
 

I apologize,  guess my old age is making it hard. I initially wanted to know if it's possible to have a high ACTH with no symptoms. 

Bonnie Snodgrass you asked about insulin and glucose.
Joseph with ACTH of 572 no symptoms  age 20
Glucose 99 mg/dL  normal= 71-122
Insulin 20.45ng/mL. normal=10-40

Zane mild symptoms age16 ACTH 172
Glucose  98 normal= 71-122
Insulin  30.02 normal=10-40

Both from Cornell 

Will get the case histories up asap.

Thank you,
--
Bonnie with Racham (over the rainbow) from Southern California, Nov/2016

Case History
Racham's Photos 
Ω 

 

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