Emergency Diet to Daily Diet


Hi All,
As I was reading through the digest a question popped up in my mind. What is the correct time to go from the emergency diet to the daily diet of balanced hay diet recommendations? In other words I know the emergency diet suggests salt, magnesium, e and flax. Dr Kellon balanced my hay and I supplement with Glycocemic, Tri Amino, copper and zinc. Right now I'm giving her all of this. She had a laminitic episode in April and we have things under control now in all aspects. Her PPID is controlled and with Metformin we are testing frequently to zero in on the correct dose. Last insulin test showed her just above normal range. Blood was pulled yesterday and I expect it to be in the normal range. Assuming ACTH and insulin are within normal ranges do I discontinue the salt, e, magnesium and flax and do just the Glycocemic, TriAmino, copper and zinc, or do I continue with all of it? Thank you!
Pat and Frigga
Monkton, VT

Re: New hay test

Joy V

Yes, that's the correct hay/test.  Thanks so much Cass, this is exactly what I was hoping to find out.  

My hay supplier had it tested, but I will re test using several of the bales and proceed accordingly from there. 

Thank you again!!

Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:
Willie's photo album:

APF Premier for Newbies

HL's Mom

I'd like to be sent the article/link for "APF Premier for Newbies" so I can learn more about this . I'm about to put my PPID mare on it and I don't know anything about this product.

Diann  in VA 2020

Re: 2 months after initial laminitis episode

Sherry Morse

Hi Phyllis,

I noticed the other day that we had somebody with 2 different photo links but they both went to the same spot. is also your album, but I'm not sure why both links are different yet still work.

As far as the photos - I see room for improvement in the trim but Lavinia is the expert on those so you'll want to do a post that says something like "Hoof Mark Up Request" so she knows it's for her.

Weight-wise Patches doesn't look too bad here - how does her crest feel though?  Soft and moveable or hard as a rock, somewhere in between?  That may be the best judge of how controlled her IR is at this point.

Re: Update on Ruger and pergolide dosage advice please

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

You could increase him to 3 but since we're in the downward trend you won't know if it was the increase or time responsible for any decreases.  Increases are also sometimes futile when instituted during the rise. Since he's not laminitic or hyperinsulinemic I'd be inclined to wait until late December or early January to retest. If well within normal at that time you can decide if you want to try a lower dose then.
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001

Re: Squamous Cell Carcinoma

Nancy Kitchen

It is so apparent that you and your Sonseeahray captured all our hearts and we were all sending positive energy to you.  And so very much wanting a fairy tale ending for you and your beloved horse.  Alas that was not to be.  Take comfort in your memories and know you did right by your boy,  to the end...   Be kind to yourself and safe travels home.... 
Nancy K
Smoke and Tucky
November 2018, Southeast, MA

Smoke Case History:
Smoke Photo Album:
Tucky Case History: 
Tucky Photo Album:

Re: Success syringing metformin

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

OK.  You'll need to give 25 to 30 a day.
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001

Re: Thyrol-L

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

What you do with it depends on your goal. The high dose is for weight loss. You are creating an abnormal hyperthyroid state with it. This will also suppress the horse's normal thyroid function which is why you should gradually wean off, giving the thyroid time to kick back in.

Many horses with EMS, PPID, obesity or any chronic condition will have low T4. It's probably euthyroid sick syndrome because they respond normally to TSH but since we can't test TSH or rT3 that's not able to be confirmed.

When the diet is balanced and the underlying condition controlled, thyroid function usually returns to normal. Some vets advise to use lower doses of Thyro-L, just enough to bring T4 back to normal, especially when the horse is dull and depressed. This is a much more conservative approach but not necessary in the end.
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001

Re: Update on Ruger and pergolide dosage advice please


Thanks, Aunna!  That I can understand.  Knowing you are a vet, yourself, I thought I might be missing a relevant earlier discussion.
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


Re: jesse small change

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

His water intake is more likely the result of Invokana and higher urine output. Less isn't necessarily better in that scenario. Keep an eye on his urine specific gravity.
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001

Re: Update on Ruger and pergolide dosage advice please


Martha, I'm very willing to increase his dose.  The only reason I'm asking is because waiting on the increase was suggested by my equine veterinarian.  Fortunately, I am not dependent upon her for my prescription.  Per your and Sherry's recommendation, I will go ahead with 3 mg QD.  Thank you!
October 2018
Oakland County, Michigan, USA
Cadet Case History:
Ruger Case History:

Cadet Photo Album:

Re: Star received her wings

Lesley Fraser

I’m so sorry to hear that Star has gone, and so suddenly. Thank you for telling us about her life and her wonderful friendship with you, and for sharing the beautiful obituary written by your husband. Your heart must be breaking.

Fly free, Star.

Lesley & over the bridge Omar,
2012, UK

Lesley, 11-2012

Norfolk, UK

Omar - Case History

Re: Update on Vinnie


Vinnie looks great Nancy, well done, and that photo from the costume class is stunning!
Laura K Chappie & Beau over the bridge
2011 N IL 

Re: Update on Vinnie

Deb Walker

Just seconding those opinions...Vinnie looks wonderful!!!
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:

jesse small change

LJ Friedman

jesse is on day 6 of 20 mg cp, ( last received 2.5 ml of  cabergoline on 10/14. With apf on board i notice one change: his water intake has reduced a bit.  hard to say total amount of decrease?? 10-15%?

Can anything positive be extrapolated from this? Like perhaps the compounded pergolide is controlling his PPID better than Cabergoline  and he is drinking less voraciously?  being on invokana, he has 24 hr access to water, always fresh, as 5 gallon buckets are always refilled during the day and 10 gallons are available duribg the nite ( buckets are never empty at refill time,
jesse contiues to be very happy and engafedt

2 oz iodized salt each day.  weather is cooling too.But I don’t remember him drinking less during the cooler months of April May June.

LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos


Re: Star received her wings

Frances C.

Sorry for your loss of Star. Looks like she had a great life right up to the very end. You made her life better and she made your life better - and that's pretty wonderful.
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history:
Phoenix's Photo Album:

Re: chickens in horse hay/ chance for salmonella with my IR horse

Daisy Shepherd

thank you. it is certainly a dilemma for those of us who board.  daisy and tiko
Daisy, Tiko and Whisper
CO, April 2019
Case History: 
Photo Album:,,,20,2,0,0

Re: Star received her wings


So sorry to hear about the passing of your cherished Star.  Beautiful tribute to your mare and the friendship you shared. Hugs to you during this difficult time of loss.
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada



Case History


Re: 2 months after initial laminitis episode


Thanks Sherry, I will work on the weight. Can you please check the link below for my photos? My link looks different than yours.
Thank you!
Phyllis W in OH 2020,,,20,2,0,0

Re: Star received her wings

Anna Dolly

I am so sorry for your loss.
Anna Dolly
Keyser, WV
Sept. 2020
Babe's Case History
Babe's Photo Album

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